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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2825 |
Holy Grails
I've been wondering about them, with some having been finally discovered, others not yet, and some probably going to remain in the realm of the impossible forever.
I'm speaking of things like:
- 320x200x16 graphics without restrictions
- Crash-free all-direction hardware scrolling
- Digi replay of 8-bit samples at one register write per sample and without requiring cycle accuracy
on standard vanilla hardware, of course.
Some examples of discovered grails are:
- Cube rotating at 50 fps about 3 axes
- The 9th sprite (with some restrictions)
- On-the-fly standard GCR block read+decode+checksumming
As for definition, they all satisfy some measure of being perfect or optimal or being possible after all, with no further improvements required, possible or necessary. But i'm not so sure if that definition holds water with regard to some of the examples i listed. :D
The question is, what other Holy Grails are there, already discovered or still elusive?
What are your pet grails you've been chasing after for decades or have found eventually? :) |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2825 |
Quoting Oswaldfor me stable raster requirement doesnt cancels it, as a way to have 8 bit samples. Wonder why is it a deal breaker for you ? What algorithm says. 8-bit samples are all fine and dandy, but they could be even better with easy mixing and no extra lookup etc., not to speak of more spare cycles for stuff, with less jitter sensitivity. Good < better <<< Holy Grail. :) |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2825 |
Quoting GroepazQuote:imho 8 bit PWM was like 256 (136) colors with interlace or dither. no1 ever took it seriously.
the censor guys (and perhaps not only them) would probably disagree with that Yes, it was pretty revolutionary for the time, i think.
Also technically, PWM cannot be compared to visual interlace/dither/error diffusion, as it can perfectly recreate an original PCM signal. Things like Super Audio CD existed. :) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
Quote: Quoting Oswaldfor me stable raster requirement doesnt cancels it, as a way to have 8 bit samples. Wonder why is it a deal breaker for you ? What algorithm says. 8-bit samples are all fine and dandy, but they could be even better with easy mixing and no extra lookup etc., not to speak of more spare cycles for stuff, with less jitter sensitivity. Good < better <<< Holy Grail. :)
9 sprites needs stable irq AND only every 2nd line can be used, AND sprites can be only shown at VERY specific x AND y coordinates AND border has to be removed to show all sprites.
"8-bit samples are all fine and dandy, but they could be even better"
yeah but that 9 sprites, that routine cant be any better ! :)
AFAIK. PWM always has that high pitch whine != perfect recreation of original. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2825 |
Quoting Oswald9 sprites needs stable irq AND only every 2nd line can be used, AND sprites can be only shown at VERY specific x AND y coordinates AND border has to be removed to show all sprites. As i said in the initial post, the "definition" is somewhat loose, and YMMV.
Quoting OswaldAFAIK. PWM always has that high pitch whine != perfect recreation of original. 'The PWM sampling theorem[7] shows that PWM conversion can be perfect. The theorem states that "Any bandlimited baseband signal within ±0.637 can be represented by a pulsewidth modulation (PWM) waveform with unit amplitude. The number of pulses in the waveform is equal to the number of Nyquist samples and the peak constraint is independent of whether the waveform is two-level or three-level."'
"DSD is 1-bit, has a sampling rate of 2.8224 MHz, and makes use of noise shaping quantization techniques in order to push 1-bit quantization noise up to inaudible ultrasonic frequencies." |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
yes, definition is loose, and your list is highly subjective.
PWM, ofcourse I ment that int the context of c64 realisations. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2825 |
Quoting Oswaldyes, definition is loose, and your list is highly subjective. Indeed, and i asked from the start for people's own highly subjective holy grails.
Quoting OswaldPWM, ofcourse I ment that int the context of c64 realisations. And i said "technically", as in PWM in general. :) |
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Joe
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 224 |
My subjective holy grail was to get coders to envision my rasterbars and sprite images in the border.
Still working on some of those ideas for future use, just as the $3fff images.
I think I reached a new personal level of low-fi hickups of quite nice results. |
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Compyx
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 631 |
My personal holy grail is something that probably has been done before: A bitmap logo swinging using VSP + linecrunch and a multiplexed DYSP in the sideborder over that and a sideborder dycp as well.
Got pretty close many years ago coding with X-Byte, but we managed to get so many errors on the disk with the sources, we never managed to rescue the sources.
All this was early 90's, but I still want to do it. |
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ChristopherJam
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1370 |
Unrestricted 320x200x16 graphics simply cannot happen on vanilla hardware as there is not enough memory bandwidth; the most VIC can read per raster is 40x20 bits of characters+bitmap+colour ram, and 8*24 bits of sprite definitions; 992 bits in total, far shy of the 5120 bits that would be required to independently specify the colours of 320 pixels.
Something I would like to see though, is an AGSP paired with a general purpose sprite multiplexer, that is quite happy to have sprites leaving via the top border. No novel techniques would be required, just some fiddly coding. (There's a thread somewhere on this site with implementation ideas). |
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Trash
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 122 |
Quoting KrillWhere was that? I seem to have missed this demo
Rocketry |
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