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Forums > CSDb Entries > Event id #2636 : Crack Intro Music Competition 2017
2017-09-29 13:46
Didi

Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 478
Event id #2636 : Crack Intro Music Competition 2017

After the geat success in 2013, the time has come for another Crack Intro Music Competition!

Several people have asked for it and finally it happens.

This time I have a skilled co-organizer with Jammer.

Competition runs from September 29, 2017, until October 29, 2017. So you have a full month to deliver your creations.

Please use this thread for questions, discussion and everything else concerning this competition.

THE RULES (same as in 2013, worked very well):
- max. playtime 1:00 min. (PAL playing speed), then repeat or fade.
- max. size: $1000 bytes (preferably located in memory at $1000-$2000)
- single speed only
- no SID model preference (should sound good on all SID models)
- must be handed in as executable format .sid or .prg (might be embedded in .t64 or .d64)
- no graphics or even intro-like presentation is allowed to be included.
- Productions using the music might be released after the voting deadline. The voting should be focused on the music itself.
- the participating musics may not have been released or used in a public production before.
- multiple entries per musician allowed.

Deadline for entry submission is October 29, 2017 at 23:59:59 (11:59:59 pm).
Voting closes one week later at November 6, 2017 at 23:59:59 (11:59:59 pm).
Voting platform is CSDb (with all disadvantages it may have), therefore entries have to be posted here.
Entries will be ranked by weighted average of CSDb votes. Entries with the same weighted average are ranked by their percentages of 10s, 9s, etc.

No prices to win, just the fame. May the best creation win!
2017-09-29 21:22
Scarzix

Registered: Aug 2010
Posts: 143
I think the 1:00 minute is just too little for small tunes unless you want a lot of tiny loops.

1:10-20 would fit better with most speeds and sequences, at least for my own small intro tunes.
2017-09-29 21:34
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11073
also a crack intro tune must loop, wtf fade...
2017-09-29 21:40
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
Quoting Scarzix
I think the 1:00 minute is just too little for small tunes unless you want a lot of tiny loops.

1:10-20 would fit better with most speeds and sequences, at least for my own small intro tunes.


Over 80 tunes complied miraculously to that rule in 2013 :P It's a good exercise in being compact and to the point ;) You realize how exemplary crack tune works - most memorable theme is right at the start and later you just pour water. So... pour a little less of that water from your hefty jug, sir :D You're obviously allowed to make 2 subtunes - #1 under 1 minute and #2 being full length theme of your dreams (both have to fit in 4k, though).



Quoting Groepaz
also a crack intro tune must loop, wtf fade...


Actually, you're right about that ;) I don't remember any entry from 2013 that didn't loop as a matter of fact.
2017-09-29 21:55
Scarzix

Registered: Aug 2010
Posts: 143
I don't see the point of having length restrictions. The bytes is totally understandable if it should within a crack intro. But the length limitation doesn't make sense to me and I highly doubt that people thought about length of a tune back then (in the 80's when cracks were actually important)
2017-09-29 22:15
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
Cracking the Old Way that's more or less how you stick to the compo rules :)
2017-09-30 01:23
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
It's ridiculous but I have to add that rule:

- tune that covers someone else's composition, cannot be a procedural conversion of any kind - put some effort into process FFS

Case study here:
Poop Nukem 3D
2017-09-30 09:56
TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2030
Cool that you do this compo.
Not gonna take part, but probably rather leave this to real musicians.
Not so happy about 1:00 limit, i.e. what Scarzix sez.
2017-09-30 10:12
Linus

Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 637
Really great you guys are organizing another Crack Intro Music competition! Awesome.

I am struggling with this rule, tho:

- no SID model preference (should sound good on all SID models)

May I ask what the point is?

First of all most of the classic crack intro tunes from back in the days sound like shit on a 8580, so it's not a way to keep things "real" - heavy differences have always been there.

Also, I don't see a proper scientific, ahem, way to judge whether a tune complies to that rule or not. An 8580 tune that sounds muffled on the old chip can be excused by the author's soft spot for lo-fi glitch, e.g. I am exaggerating here, obviously, but I hope you get my drift. Who judges what's "good" and what's not? Oh, yeah, the organizers, sure - but how can a participant possibly know what's in the realm of acceptable according to the organizer's taste? It's a very vague, nebulous rule one could easily do without imho.

That being said, I am looking forward to an ass kicking compo! Thanks, guys!
2017-09-30 11:44
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
Sascha, I'm more than sure your great experience will allow you to tell tune sounding lofi on 6581 from the broken one ;) Same for the other way round - 6581 tune sounding thin on new one is rather common and acceptable but 6581 bassline using $00 cutoff, which in most cases is virtually inaudible on 8580, is not that nice.
2017-09-30 13:23
Linus

Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 637
What about switching filtertypes? Produces clicks on the old fella, but does that automatically result in a disqualification? Where to draw the line?
2017-09-30 13:51
uctumi

Registered: Jun 2015
Posts: 1
Will the voting be anonymous? How will the voting method be?
2017-09-30 13:59
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
"Voting platform is CSDb (with all disadvantages it may have), therefore entries have to be posted here.
Entries will be ranked by weighted average of CSDb votes. Entries with the same weighted average are ranked by their percentages of 10s, 9s, etc."

You just vote like for regular csdb releases :)
2017-09-30 14:47
spider-j

Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 443
What Scarzix said. Please make it at least +10 seconds!
For a real intro tune small size is what matters anyway.
2017-09-30 14:48
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11073
or cut the size in half and drop the length limit :)
2017-09-30 14:55
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
Put down your weapon, you have 20 seconds to comply.

If tune cannot deliver anything interesting below 1 minute, it's going to suck as crack music anyway. It's that simple ;)
2017-09-30 16:09
Linus

Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 637
So what about filtertype switching then? :) Serious question.
2017-09-30 16:28
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
If it clicks that everyone's ears bleed from it, it's bugged most probably. Still, you know I'm not as sensitive to clicking as Søren is.

Can we proceed to serious issues? Rules are set in stone - they worked last time, they're going to work this time as well. I can promise I won't make a fuss about that damn 1:01 and will prevent Didi from being nazi about it. Period. Now, gimme a break.
2017-09-30 16:50
Linus

Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 637
Ok, but what about ...

:)
2017-09-30 17:50
Compyx

Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 631
Can I cheat with the timer, having the 'second' update each 70 frames or so?
2017-09-30 19:03
lft

Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 369
There's no on-screen timer, because graphics are not allowed. Right?
2017-09-30 19:14
lft

Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 369
Quoting Linus

- no SID model preference (should sound good on all SID models)
...
I don't see a proper scientific, ahem, way to judge whether a tune complies to that rule or not.


Entries could be disqualified if they explicitly state the preferred SID model somewhere.

We can also adapt the judging process, in the spirit of the rule, like this: We all randomise the SID model before listening to each tune. Half the people will judge it based on how it sounds on 6581, half based on how it sounds on 8580. If it sounds great on both, the average score will be higher.
2017-09-30 19:25
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11073
or just randomize the votes alltogether :)
2017-09-30 19:26
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
Jeez. It's not about SID flag. It's about not sounding like muffled diarrhea on 6581 (and believe - all regular MSL stuff, for example, would sound like this on 6581). Don't worry, LFT, you have least to fear in this respect ;) In practice it's mostly about taking more classical approach where to put filter and where not to. Tune DOESN'T have to sound identical on both chips.
2017-09-30 19:38
Linus

Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 637
Yeah, but whhhhyyyyyy?! :) I don't wanna touch that old fella :)
2017-09-30 19:58
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11073
thats what she said
2017-09-30 20:11
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
Quoting Groepaz
thats what she said


2017-10-01 04:08
Stinsen

Registered: Feb 2012
Posts: 71
This thread is gold, you guys are cracking me up (no pun intended). :D
2017-10-01 09:44
TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2030
Quote:
I can promise I won't make a fuss about that damn 1:01 and will prevent Didi from being nazi about it.

ROFL xD
2017-10-01 13:34
Xiny6581

Registered: Feb 2004
Posts: 71
Awesome... :) Will do my magic 6581+8580 and attend with magic too ;D
2017-10-01 20:09
Scarzix

Registered: Aug 2010
Posts: 143
So SID detection in player is the way to go - aka we now know that composers with that option will be able to make the best results.

Think I might go the oppersite way: Do I get + points for NOT using filters then? :-)
2017-10-01 20:13
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
People vote, they'll decide ;)
2017-10-02 21:33
celticdesign

Registered: Oct 2005
Posts: 147
Mehhh, haven't ckecked all posts here but do we have a tolerance of 1 or 2 seconds? And must the loop be from the beginning or can i loop just the last bars of that damn longplay track?!?
2017-10-02 21:41
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
Two entries from Scarzix are about 1:01.5 playtime. I'd personally pass them as those are great tunes. I hope Didi agrees with me. Still, try not to push it, really ;)
2017-10-02 21:46
Scarzix

Registered: Aug 2010
Posts: 143
Feel free to remove my entries if I violate the restrictions too much. I use speed 02 (aka 3 frames) and the sequence lengths gives me that time. It's not "on purpose" to be against the limitations, but thats what 50fps at speed 02 gives me ... alternatively, I have to make them with CIA timers and then they probably wont fit any crack intro... :-/

Besides that, they are smaller than the max size in bytes and works on both SIDs :-)
2017-10-02 21:51
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
Sometimes it's about compromises in composition to meet the requirements - phrase played once not twice etc. No, I don't really want to disqualify decent stuff, especially it's on the verge ;)

Ok, official compromise is that we will turn a blind eye for 2 seconds overtime as it helps sometimes with maintaining regular structure, looping etc. But cross that and scissors go straight for your dicks :D
2017-10-02 22:09
Didi

Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 478
We agreed to have a tolerance of max. 2 seconds, but that's all. Please do not probe this limit too hard.
2017-10-02 22:27
Scarzix

Registered: Aug 2010
Posts: 143
\o/ !!!
2017-10-03 18:08
Mekong

Registered: Mar 2013
Posts: 6
Have to agree with what other guys said, the only constraint in such a compo should be filesize. That's how I've always picked tunes for use in my releases. If one is skilled enough to cram in a solo that shows up after 2 minutes, the better. Loop/fade should not be a demand either, sometimes you may want the intro to hit and run. It sure is cool that in 2013 people complied with these rules, but some of the most legendary introtunes that have actually been used by crackers, from eg. Hubbard or Laxity, wouldn't have qualified here, which is silly.
2017-10-03 18:48
DKT

Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 96
IMO there is no (should not be) tech difference between "Crack Intro Music" or "Any other Music", just taste/mood matters ;)
For a good music I will spend additional bytes in intro and try to find space for it in mem no matter what. "Intro music" idea without any restrictions should give enough info "how it should look like for me".
2017-10-03 19:07
DKT

Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 96
And why "- single speed only" !? /o\
2017-10-03 19:26
Didi

Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 478
Rules are set for this compo. Any discussion may influence upcoming compos, but not the running one.

At least european cracking groups always tried to keep their cracks as short as possible. That's why the size of the intro also mattered and they tried to make it cool but short as well. There are lots of small intromusics far below the limit of this compo.

Single speed: Usually crack intros do hot have rastertime to waste therefore use single speed music.

Good sounding on both SID models is a challenge for the composers, accept it or leave it. Some demos have dedicated music for both SID models but there is no space for this in a tiny little intro.
2017-10-04 17:12
Richard

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts:
Submitted my first entry 'RasterTime'. Made in Cheesecutter V2.8, and hopefully it should fit to the music compo rules :)

Short 'n sweet. I hope :)
2017-10-04 21:20
Magnar

Registered: Aug 2009
Posts: 60
- no graphics or even intro-like presentation is allowed to be included.

This is a silly rule! Nobody obeys it anyway.

Mermaid is animating text from her musicplayer on the screen like a intro-like presentation. Jammer is using graphical font to make his text look better, not using c64 font. People are using PSID64 with flashing color lines in a intro-like presentation...

And what the heck, according the rules it should be blank/black screens from everyone?!?!??!

Please take this rule away.
2017-10-05 05:26
lft

Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 369
Hmm, indeed "blank screen" would have been a less ambiguous rule. Or "static text only, using the ROM font". Or SID format. Those are some ideas for next year's compo.

On the topic of length limit vs. just a filesize limit, I think that a "tiny music compo" (with a blank screen) would be fun. But that would be a coder's compo, or possibly a toolchain compo. I think that the 1-minute limit is a good challenge for musicians, and clearly a lot of good stuff is coming out of it.

I actually think it's more interesting to have a strict 1:00 limit (because it is so frustratingly close to 1:01.29, which is 3*8 bars in tempo 4). It helps us to break free from familiar molds.

But, well, maybe we need two compos for looping tunes. A 1-minute compo, and a filesize compo. And then maybe it is the latter that should be called a "crack intro music" compo.
2017-10-05 07:17
Krill

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2800
Quoting lft
it's more interesting to have a strict 1:00 limit (because it is so frustratingly close to 1:01.29, which is 3*8 bars in tempo 4). It helps us to break free from familiar molds.
What about tunes with different track lengths, then? Say, voice 1 looping at 1:00 sharp, voice 2 a bit before that, and voice 3 again a bit earlier? Technically it loops at 1:00, but the whole tune can go into interesting variations as it goes on. Stuff like this has been done, but not often, and possibly not to perfection. :)
2017-10-05 07:31
Mermaid

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 335
Quote: - no graphics or even intro-like presentation is allowed to be included.

This is a silly rule! Nobody obeys it anyway.

Mermaid is animating text from her musicplayer on the screen like a intro-like presentation. Jammer is using graphical font to make his text look better, not using c64 font. People are using PSID64 with flashing color lines in a intro-like presentation...

And what the heck, according the rules it should be blank/black screens from everyone?!?!??!

Please take this rule away.


I've now had people complaining to me about my tune because "no demo effects allowed!"

I really didn't see that one coming, didn't think anyone considered displaying the code and data onscreen to show the memory usage an "intro-like presentation" - to me it's more like using raster bars to show the raster time usage.

So wait, does this mean that in my next demo I can show the music code on the screen for a bit and it will shut up all those who complain about my demos having no effects...?
2017-10-05 07:56
Krill

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2800
It's a silly interpretation of that rule.

And personally i think that visual presentation has little to no effect on voting outcome. Especially if it's not an actual demo effect or anything obviously going for visual impact.
2017-10-05 07:57
spider-j

Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 443
Quote: - no graphics or even intro-like presentation is allowed to be included.

This is a silly rule! Nobody obeys it anyway.

Mermaid is animating text from her musicplayer on the screen like a intro-like presentation. Jammer is using graphical font to make his text look better, not using c64 font. People are using PSID64 with flashing color lines in a intro-like presentation...

And what the heck, according the rules it should be blank/black screens from everyone?!?!??!

Please take this rule away.


Me using psid64 instead of my own (dis-)player (with my spider-sprite and song title scrolling) in this compo is *because* of that rule.
2017-10-05 08:21
Perplex

Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 254
Quoting Mermaid
So wait, does this mean that in my next demo I can show the music code on the screen for a bit and it will shut up all those who complain about my demos having no effects...?


Certain people will always find something to complain about, don't you worry.
2017-10-05 09:58
Scarzix

Registered: Aug 2010
Posts: 143
Suggestion for next Crack intro compo.
Let the origanizers produce 1 or more "templates" for crack intros. Where the logo is the name of the compo and the scroll text contains the song title, composer and song details.

Then let the composers choose which of the templates to compose for and then we have a lot of similar "intros" where we can see how the music feels with that particular intro.

... or as suggested, we could also just go "black" but that makes some really boring screenshots for CSDB.dk :-)

Also if we specify it should sound good on 6581, please lets us agree on WHICH REVISION we are talking about. :-)

I still love the idea of this compo, so dont get me wrong here.

I might even have more tunes up my sleves, if people start to vote on tunes.
2017-10-05 10:31
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11073
this compo clearly needs more rules, its not silly enough yet =)
2017-10-05 16:47
Linus

Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 637
Quote: this compo clearly needs more rules, its not silly enough yet =)

Haha!

You're an ass, but we tend to agree a lot ;) Damn, what does that say about me?
2017-10-05 19:42
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
Quoting Linus
You're an ass, but we tend to agree a lot ;) Damn, what does that say about me?


Sascha, you're an ass.
2017-10-05 20:05
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11073
Linus: sing along loud and proud!
2017-10-08 15:02
ws

Registered: Apr 2012
Posts: 218
I demand, the winner must also make (or produce) an outstanding cracktro.
2017-10-09 09:24
Raf

Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343
Rules drama? Obey and submit! :)



oh btw I'm pleased to join the compo ;)

www.c64power.com
2017-10-10 11:21
Raf

Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343
Regarding rules how are you going to resolve issue in regard of fame/namevoting/number of votes?

case:
Drax's tune has been uploaded less than 24h ago and he got 12 votes, my tune - some 26h ago and only 2? ;)

www.c64power.com
2017-10-10 13:32
TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2030
Drax' tune wipes the floor with all other releases anyway (though there are a lot of good and even quite a bunch excellent tunes among them), tune would not have scored much differently anonymously imho, no matter what you do about voting system ;)
2017-10-10 13:46
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
With all respect to maestro Drax, I beg to differ ;) I enjoyed his 2013 cracks more and I hope he goes at least for hattrick this time again :)
2017-10-10 14:03
TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2030
most people just do some rule/vote whining because it belongs to each compo, let the few who seriously complain sulk on. there are sooo many great tunes, I don't care so much about how you fake the vote results in the ending anyway :P

PS: "anonymous" compo would not make much sense, as experienced listeners would know more than half of artists anyway either by style or even by player routine
2017-10-10 15:35
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
Quoting TheRyk
I don't care so much about how you fake the vote results in the ending anyway :P


WAT? Now that was some shit, sir, I hope you didn't mean orgs' actions. You better take it back :P
2017-10-10 20:57
TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2030
Honk if you demand satisfaction, Sir!
2017-10-10 22:36
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11073
du bist mir so ein honk!
2017-10-11 15:01
DRAX

Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 224
RAf, I think it could go both ways or perhaps not even matter whether I am known or not. I simply just care about people voting according to what they think of the music and not for me being drax. I thought of entering under a pseudonym but I believe people would have spotted my style anyways. Perhaps some people would also compare my tune to my previous ones and judge it from that perspective rather than comparing to the other tunes in the compo. One could also make a rule saying that musician rated among the 10 highest in csdb shouldn't attend? I attend because I kinda like composing short tunes due to laziness 😉
2017-10-11 16:08
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
Raf, name is one thing - you can't help it. Second thing is people usually don't want to give bad ratings and if entry doesn't meet their expectations, they simply pass. Or they are plainly ambivalent about it which results in the same action. You're probably more than aware that your effort is not entirely on par with Drax (but pretty decent compared to your earlier works which reflected in my evaluation) ;)
2017-10-11 16:59
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11073
and you didnt even make the first HONK style sid in existance!
2017-10-11 17:56
spider-j

Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 443
I have a philosophical question:
I started developing a tune in GT with settings to 6581 and do my filters there, but actually don't own a real 6581 and still like the outcome "personally" more on my 8580 (which is the case for almost *all* 6581 tunes except those with cutoff 0). Did I make a 6581 or a 8580 tune?
2017-10-11 18:01
Hein

Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933
8580. Disqualified!
2017-10-11 18:07
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
Quoting Groepaz
and you didnt even make the first HONK style sid in existance!


xD

I'll reiterate on it later but now off to Blade Runner 2049 ;)
2017-10-11 20:30
spider-j

Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 443
Quote: 8580. Disqualified!

Well. That answer brings up the next question: are SID tunes done in an emulator really SID tunes? ;-)
2017-10-11 20:44
Linus

Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 637
The real question is are SID tunes even music?

"Crack Intro MUSIC competition 2017", huh? "An exercise in futility 2017" would be a more appropriate title.
Thanks, Jammer, you HONK! :D
2017-10-12 15:36
Raf

Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343
Quote: Raf, name is one thing - you can't help it. Second thing is people usually don't want to give bad ratings and if entry doesn't meet their expectations, they simply pass. Or they are plainly ambivalent about it which results in the same action. You're probably more than aware that your effort is not entirely on par with Drax (but pretty decent compared to your earlier works which reflected in my evaluation) ;)

Jammer, you should be politician I think ;)

Actually I didn't take voting here seriously right from the start but I was concerned more about *number of votes* between those "famous" and "unknown" than name/friend voting, you seem to connect that together though. I'm fully aware that I'm not on the top at SIDding but I find it fun anyway.


www.c64power.com
2017-10-12 18:47
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
Little trouble in the meantime:

Shades of Grey

Guys wanted to be nice and used my tune. While I feel really flattered, according to rules my tune has to be put out of the compo :/
2017-10-12 19:02
lft

Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 369
New strategy: Secretly make a musicdisk of all the tunes in the compo, then release it just before the deadline. Also release another compo entry (that isn't in the musicdisk). It will win on walkover.
2017-10-12 19:11
spider-j

Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 443
Jammer: Leave it in. It's not your fault. Personally I thought this rule is/was about not re-releasing already used stuff in the first place.
2017-10-12 19:12
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
I've already put it out of compo for time being but I'm waiting for opinions ;)
2017-10-13 09:49
Steel

Registered: May 2006
Posts: 6
Quote: I've already put it out of compo for time being but I'm waiting for opinions ;)

Come on this is ridiculous. PUT THAT DAMN TUNE BACK IN.
As far as i see it makes your tune already a winner if someone so desperately wants to use it in an INTRO... oh well it was a competition for crack intro music right ;)
2017-10-13 11:43
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11073
jammer should be disqualified alltogether. BRING OUT THE PITCHFORKS!
2017-10-13 11:48
CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034
It's a trick so Jammer can add another tune to the compo without feeling stupid for flooding the compo with his own entries.

It's also quite a clever idea how to remove the competition. Someone should use Drax's tune in intro asap.

*trollface*
2017-10-13 11:49
CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034
p.s.: srsly. Tune should stay in the compo. Hokuto intro should be disqualified!
2017-10-13 12:06
iAN CooG

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3124
HF crack should be deleted from everyone's HD and the entry postdated to $end_of_compo_date+1
=)
2017-10-13 12:22
Linus

Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 637
Quote: jammer should be disqualified alltogether. BRING OUT THE PITCHFORKS!

PITCHFORKS?! Calm down! A life time ban from CSDB should suffice.
2017-10-13 12:45
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11073
thats not fun :)
2017-10-13 13:40
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
Groepaz surely meant Pitchfork Magazine and now I have to tell, I'm really honoured! :D
2017-10-13 15:30
psych

Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 140
Jammer just stop fooling around and bring back your tune to the compo!
It's really silly as your tune was firstly released in the compo and that what counts!

Or.....it is well managed marketing around the tune as competition is tough ;)
2017-10-13 16:28
celticdesign

Registered: Oct 2005
Posts: 147
We need a voting committee with at least 100 people to get fair results... ;-)
2017-10-13 19:39
Raf

Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343
next tracker compo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvK83xglHGw
2017-10-15 14:03
DRAX

Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 224
Jammer put that tune back in - it isn't your fault.
2017-10-17 02:02
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
Ok, if you guys say so... I'd probably regret throwing it out sooner or later :)
2017-10-17 06:51
Linus

Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 637
Well done, marketing queen, well done! :)
2017-10-18 20:20
TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2030
damn after so much great music you can't blame the notoriously lazy musicians... THEY can kick coders and crackers asses like "We delivered. Now make new intro and btw go do some decent crack ffs" :D
2017-10-18 20:23
Steel

Registered: May 2006
Posts: 6
Quote: Well done, marketing queen, well done! :)

LOOOOOOLLLLL
2017-10-20 20:38
Scarzix

Registered: Aug 2010
Posts: 143
Jammer, put your tune back in. The rules has been adjusted before (thanks btw) and secondly, I would personally be flattered if people found my crack tunes good enough for their intro's - so enjoy the fame my friend.

About 100 votes or more. I have a suggestion:

1) a PUBLIC vote system, but votes shouldn't be shown at all until the compo was over.
2) all entries without names...
3) people who wants to vote could sign up for being part of the commitie... (but this would also force them to give every single tune a vote from 1-10 - if not voted on, it would automatically become 9 or something... :-) )

So.. do I have to code that website myself to get that system?
2017-10-21 03:59
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
Imho redundant bureaucracy and complication for such a simple compo but it's cool you want to devote your precious time :P I sense it would gather very few volunteers, as any kind of external signup is unecessary time and effort for lazy bastards :D Didi handled voting manly in 2013, still feel free to hit him in that case ;)
2017-10-21 05:57
Hein

Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933
Agreed, this platform is not perfect, some say it's just a database. Despite that, it gathers more votes than other vote-systems that have been tried. Best of the bad.
2017-10-25 11:01
celticdesign

Registered: Oct 2005
Posts: 147
IMO it wouldn't matter if we get more votes in total, let's say at least 100 what should be possible. Downvotes wouldn't have that big impact and the result will be more realistic and fair.
You should also consider not allowing any votes with fake accounts or from people that never ever contributed something to the 64 scene.
Also ensure that a single person is doing votes for all entries and not only to a few ones for using and accepting it for the final calculation.
2017-10-25 16:01
Hein

Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933
100 votes? Yay. I think the number of entries need to be a bit lower for that. For instance by increasing the max play time to 2 minutes, so we have half the amount of entries <-
hardcore number cracking.
2017-10-25 17:51
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11073
everyone who votes should do crack first!
2017-10-25 18:23
Didi

Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 478
Using CSDb for the votes has been criticised a lot in the past, but it turned out to be the best and easiest alternative. You click the entry, listen to the music, just vote for it and go ahead. Most people are too lazy to get into a separate voting system, send messages or email or whatever. Past showed that intended downvotes had no big influence on the result of the compos I organized by reaching about 30 votes per entry. That is not much to achieve. So let's go for it...
2017-10-25 20:55
hedning

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4542
Downvoters are often anonymous. Only count the public votes. Problem solved.
2017-10-25 21:36
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11073
or only count the votes, the entry with most votes wins!
2017-10-26 10:56
celticdesign

Registered: Oct 2005
Posts: 147
Quoting Groepaz
or only count the votes, the entry with most votes wins!


Hehe, nice. What about multiple winner awards with different calculations?

- Winner Award by/with CSDB voting system
- Winner Award by/with amount of public votes only
- Winner Award by/with amount of hidden votes only
- Winner Award by/with amount of votes
- Winner Award by/with most downloads
- Winner Award by/with number of comments
- Winner Award by/with for being in the top (10)
- Winner Award by/with most downvotes
... =:-]
2017-10-26 13:04
Cruzer

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts:
Quoting hedning
Downvoters are often anonymous. Only count the public votes. Problem solved.
This.
2017-10-26 14:10
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11073
the annual voting discussion? =)
2017-10-26 14:13
iAN CooG

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3124
-1 votes for having whined on forum about rules, this should teach to stfu and/or don't compete if rules are not accepted.
2017-10-26 14:47
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11073
-1 bonus for any occurrence of "anonymous" "downvote" "problem" etc
2017-10-26 19:18
Mr.Ammo
Account closed

Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 228
Quoting hedning
Downvoters are often anonymous. Only count the public votes. Problem solved.


Interesting. I don't think that every one who votes lower than e.g. a 5 is down voting:

I give scores <= 5 for all entries that do not sounds good on both SID models. I do not call this down voting. It's quite simple. There are two SID models. If it sounds crap on one SID, then the max score is 5. I rarely give out maximum scores. So, if the tune is sounds crap on a 6581 but the composition is *really* great, I will give a 5. Else it will mostly be a 3 or 4.

I use the compo rules as a scoring rubic and for me the most important ones are the 1 minute time limit and that the entry should sound good on both SID models.

Voting/scoring is serious business! ;-)
2017-10-26 21:49
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11073
i gave low scores for one or two tunes which apparently other people liked a lot. is that downvoting? i dont think so?
2017-10-27 08:32
spider-j

Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 443
@Didi & Jammer: although you allowed "multiple" entries feel free to remove any tunes by me from the compo if you think it's too much. I just like beeing creative, trying thinks out within the compo limits - but don't want to piss off people by compo flooding :-)
2017-10-27 08:38
Hate Bush

Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 451
care to enlighten me why my latest entry 'shit olympics' got removed, not just from the compo, but from the database, even?
2017-10-27 08:45
spider-j

Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 443
Quote: care to enlighten me why my latest entry 'shit olympics' got removed, not just from the compo, but from the database, even?

See Molochs last oneliner. I guess they are removing now releases without prg file...
2017-10-27 09:47
celticdesign

Registered: Oct 2005
Posts: 147
Quote:
- must be handed in as executable format .sid or .prg (might be embedded in .t64 or .d64)


OR!
2017-10-27 10:00
Moloch

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2883
CSDb requires an executable, compo rules don't override that requirement. Take the extra two minutes and convert your .sid file to a .prg before uploading.
2017-10-27 10:10
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
Quoting Moloch
CSDb requires an executable, compo rules don't override that requirement. Take the extra two minutes and convert your .sid file to a .prg before uploading.


We'll take care of it and I get the policy but, please, don't destroy the compo. If tunes already acquired votes and comments, you distort the results. Compo is based entirely on csdb as a platform hence tunes and votes are not backed up anywhere. And, please, restore Randall's latest entry and whatever compo tunes you've hidden by a chance. Prgs will be added for sure. Thanks.


Quoting spider-j
feel free to remove any tunes by me from the compo if you think it's too much.


I see no reason in punishing you for creativity xD
2017-10-27 10:48
hedning

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4542
Add executables to begin with, as priority #1 file - problem solved. .sid file is just a bonus, that should be deleted the day HVSC mirrors it.

And guys: take screenshots, and make them look good. I'm dead tired making executables and making screenshots for lazy people.
2017-10-27 10:54
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
Quoting hedning
And guys: take screenshots, and make them look good.


Sure, will do. On the other hand, I do my own screenshots with palette carefuly prepared according to moderately saturated Colodore scheme (not more saturated than usual 1802 monitor) and see from time to time, someone replaces it with bland old Pepto screenshot :P
2017-10-27 11:09
CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034
Magical csdb elfs. They exist.
2017-10-27 12:08
hedning

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4542
Quote: Quoting hedning
And guys: take screenshots, and make them look good.


Sure, will do. On the other hand, I do my own screenshots with palette carefuly prepared according to moderately saturated Colodore scheme (not more saturated than usual 1802 monitor) and see from time to time, someone replaces it with bland old Pepto screenshot :P


I meant screenshots with artefacts lite CRT emulation, or stuff like that. :)

Worst thing is that it's more and more common with no screenshot at all. Like they count on someone else doing that for them.
2017-10-27 13:08
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
Quoting hedning
Worst thing is that it's more and more common with no screenshot at all. Like they count on someone else doing that for them.


Because helpful admins in fact do that for everyone. And even if screenshots are uploaded, admins make better ones. So user thinks - fuck it, let them do it properly. It's a bit like thinking of overly caring mother - why doesn't my kid clean up after himself or isn't enough self-reliant. If she only knew the real answer :P Rightie? :D

I suggest changing default no-screenshot gif into 'PLEASE UPLOAD FUCKING SCREENSHOT' or dirty cock pic to put uploader into shame.
2017-10-27 13:30
iAN CooG

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3124
nice idea jammer =)
2017-10-27 13:53
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
I cared to prepare delightful template for that event:

2017-10-27 13:53
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11073
+1 for cock pic
2017-10-27 14:03
iAN CooG

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3124
excellent choice!1 I wish I could be such good painter myself!2
2017-10-27 14:26
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
Your Fuuuuumbo is an excellent basis for everything! <3
2017-10-27 14:56
Didi

Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 478
Compo rules will be adjusted next time to fit CSDb rules.
2017-10-27 17:14
hedning

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4542
Quote: Quoting hedning
Worst thing is that it's more and more common with no screenshot at all. Like they count on someone else doing that for them.


Because helpful admins in fact do that for everyone. And even if screenshots are uploaded, admins make better ones. So user thinks - fuck it, let them do it properly. It's a bit like thinking of overly caring mother - why doesn't my kid clean up after himself or isn't enough self-reliant. If she only knew the real answer :P Rightie? :D

I suggest changing default no-screenshot gif into 'PLEASE UPLOAD FUCKING SCREENSHOT' or dirty cock pic to put uploader into shame.


Yeah. So we need to go full Groepaz on their asses. No prob.
2017-10-27 17:51
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11073
Quote: I cared to prepare delightful template for that event:



use it already :=)
2017-10-27 20:23
Hein

Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933
Nah, the palet is wrong.
2017-10-27 20:47
Stinsen

Registered: Feb 2012
Posts: 71
Having listened to all entries so far I must say what a glorious compo, thanks to all contributors. :D
2017-10-27 20:54
Hein

Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933
Quote: Having listened to all entries so far I must say what a glorious compo, thanks to all contributors. :D

Thanks for listening. Gotta admit, I have not yet done that (only fugue by lft), but will do so this weekend. Comment time.
2017-10-28 01:10
spider-j

Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 443
Quote: Having listened to all entries so far I must say what a glorious compo, thanks to all contributors. :D

Your tune is still missing though. Come on, join in! :-)
2017-10-28 07:40
Hein

Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933
Right, miss some others too. Just sayin, 2 more days to dust off that old sketch.
2017-10-29 18:03
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
Today is the last day to submit crakctro themes! Still few hours to grace us with your precious work ;)
2017-10-29 20:16
Cruzer

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts:
Wonder if all puns for the word crack have been used yet.
2017-10-29 23:02
Didi

Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 478
GONG! Entry submission is closed now!

Now check the entries and place your votes. Hopefully many users will vote. The more the better to get a fair result.

Voting closes at Sunday November 6, 2017 at 23:59:59 (11:59:59 pm) CET.
2017-10-29 23:11
psych

Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 140
Quote: Having listened to all entries so far I must say what a glorious compo, thanks to all contributors. :D

Totally agree with Stinsen! What an awesome compo! Didi and Jammer, you have my full respect! Thank you, even tho it cost me some sleepless nights ;)

Just a pity that Stinsen didn’t participate :(
2017-10-29 23:27
Didi

Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 478
When voting please keep the purpose in mind it should have been made for.

84 entries to vote for and only one week to do. So hurry up. ;)
2017-10-30 10:33
Linus

Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 637
Quote: Totally agree with Stinsen! What an awesome compo! Didi and Jammer, you have my full respect! Thank you, even tho it cost me some sleepless nights ;)

Just a pity that Stinsen didn’t participate :(


Uhm, why? ;)
2017-10-30 10:47
Didi

Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 478
You may also use the real SID recordings made by Mr. Ammo (Thanks a lot!) to help you with voting.

https://goo.gl/m7oBBG
2017-10-30 16:09
Carrion

Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317
@didi
thanks I'd prefer to listen on my real hardware. please, please somebody pack all of them in one zip so I can transfer them to U1541 and listen on real HW.
TIA

oh btw. did I mention this is great compo?
thanks didi & jammer
2017-10-30 17:51
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
Quoting Carrion
please somebody pack all of them in one zip so I can transfer them to U1541 and listen on real HW.



Ok, here comes bulk archive with compo C64 executables:

DOWNLOAD!
2017-10-30 18:36
Carrion

Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317
thanks Kamil
you rule!
time to go to basement to do some serious SID listening
2017-10-31 02:03
Mr.Ammo
Account closed

Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 228
Quoting Didi
You may also use the real SID recordings made by Mr. Ammo (Thanks a lot!) to help you with voting.

https://goo.gl/m7oBBG


Just now I finished recording the last few tunes and uploaded them. I threw out all tunes outside the compo to save some precious disk space.
2017-10-31 09:34
hedning

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4542
Quote: Quoting Carrion
please somebody pack all of them in one zip so I can transfer them to U1541 and listen on real HW.



Ok, here comes bulk archive with compo C64 executables:

DOWNLOAD!


Great! Thanx! Here they are on a d81, and three d64:s, for those who like it that way: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pczlmzj7967ocvj/CrackMusicCompo2017.z..
2017-11-05 17:12
TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2030
Quote: GONG! Entry submission is closed now!

Now check the entries and place your votes. Hopefully many users will vote. The more the better to get a fair result.

Voting closes at Sunday November 6, 2017 at 23:59:59 (11:59:59 pm) CET.


As this date does not exist in my calendar, do I have time till 6th of Nov, 23:59:59 (MONday) to do final votes or will deadline be tonight (SUNday, 5th)?
2017-11-05 17:15
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
Didi definitely meant TODAY but put wrong date ;) As voting started on 30th of October, today is the last day to vote, without doubt.
2017-11-05 17:16
TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2030
uh will see if I find time, guess about 30 tunes left to vote
2017-11-05 20:19
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
So far Didi is kind of unavailable and hasn't read my PMs so it's possible voting will last till tomorrow's end, who knows. I don't want to check votes all by myself, honestly :D
2017-11-05 21:33
Didi

Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 478
Voting will close TOMORROW midnight as announced in first post.
2017-11-05 23:10
TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2030
wonderful \o/
thx!
2017-11-06 22:27
Didi

Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 478
Just managed to check and vote for all by myself short before deadline. ;)
2017-11-07 00:24
Didi

Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 478
Final results are fixed. Thanks to all participants for this great competition again!
2017-11-07 12:44
spider-j

Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 443
Thank you too, Didi (and of course also Jammer) for organizing. I guess number of my entries already shows that I had a lot of fun participating.

I also enjoyed literally *all* entries. Great job, fellow musicians and noise makers :-)

My suggestions / wishlist for the future would be:
- raise time limit to ~1:10 to include 1:02 and 1:04 "pop music sequence" loop points
- drop "no graphics" rule and allow everyone to use their [groups] standard player. As you can see in the download stats most people only listen to the SIDs anyway.
- remove fade option from playtime rule, introtunes should loop
- consider to split the compo into 4K and 2K categories

But of course you can already count me in the next time with the same ruleset :-)
2017-11-07 12:51
Toggle

Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 32
Thank you - Didi and Jammer - for this awesome compo! Congrats to Drax for winning this thing again! You know it's been a crazy good compo when two of my faves (among many others) come in on #54 and #55 each with a great 8.0 rating!

Thanks to all my fellow SID-lovers for your awesome releases!
2017-11-07 16:26
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
Again, that was hell of a compo! Kudos and much thanks to all participants and voters! We'll surely refine on ruleset next time but don't expect revolution :P
2017-11-07 16:27
aNdy

Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 41
Thanks Didi and Jammer.

Congrats to Drax.

Super kudos to *everyone* who took part. Great tunes!
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