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Forums > CSDb Entries > Event id #2655 : 8K Intro Competition 2017
2017-12-08 16:41
ChristopherJam

Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1359
Event id #2655 : 8K Intro Competition 2017

Inspired in part by Didi's past intro creation competitions (many thankings for those!),
have a four week lightning competition to help you survive the holiday season

- single file one part intro (fade in/out acceptable)
- has a logo+changing text+music
- file size of at most 8192 bytes, including load address (so, 8190 bytes of data).
- no more than 5 seconds decrunch/precalculation time.
- once page is running, exits within 5 seconds of pressing space (should be obviously fading out)
- don't trash any RAM from $2800 to $cfff inclusive (unless you restore it on exit).

- entries uploaded to csdb as runnable .prg, optionally embedded in .d64,
- max three per participant, withdrawals allowed, older entries will be displaced if you've too many.
- competition start: 8th December
- entry deadline: 5th of January, 14:00 (2pm) UTC
- voting deadline: 12th of January, 14:00 (2pm) UTC
- entries will be ranked by CSDb rating, including private votes.
- entries with the same weighted average will be ranked by their percentages of 10s, 9s, etc.

No prizes, just fame :)


Thankings to Jeanette, Krill, Groepaz, and various ICC2016 commenters for helping me to crystallise plans.
Any errors in judgement all my own - I've ignored a lot of good advice :D


Questions and discussion below.
 
... 71 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....
 
2017-12-08 22:22
TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2035
Didi, don't be sulky, compete :)
2017-12-08 22:33
Compyx

Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 631
8KB is very decent limit, big enough for some half-decent graphics, a decent tune and some code that should rise above the simple swinging logo + 1x1 scroller.
2017-12-09 11:11
Hein

Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933
Quote:
- don't trash any RAM from $2800 to $cfff inclusive (unless you restore it on exit).

This means in runtime? Usually depackers fill the holes ($2800-$cfff in this case) with zeros. I've been trying the Exomizer level option (which should leave the non-used memory untouched when depacking $0400-$27ff and $d000-$ffff), but can't get the depacker source to work, yet. It'd save some time if I can just use the sfx option. Then you can pretend there's game bytes at $2800-$cfff. :)
2017-12-09 11:27
ChristopherJam

Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1359
Quoting Hein
This means in runtime?

Yes. I was assuming game gets depacked from that area after the intro exits, possibly getting moved down to $0801-$b000 first depending on the packer requirements.

Quote:
Usually depackers fill the holes ($2800-$cfff in this case) with zeros.

Interesting. Perhaps I should be louder about nucrunch offering a stream containing multiple disjoint areas... Or is that what the Exomizer level option is?

Quote:
…Then you can pretend there's game bytes at $2800-$cfff. :)


I'd prefer to leave the rule as it stands; while I considered adding a specific payload, I didn't want any of the entries taking advantage of whatever the contents were (which would in turn have tied those entries to only being able to intro that particular file).
2017-12-09 11:59
Hein

Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933
Exomizer level option should indeed leave the non-packed areas untouched when depacking.

So my question is still open: Would it be allowed to just pack the whole memory with Exomizer or Pucrunch, even if after depacking the area $2800-$cfff is filled with zeros (which in a real life scenario would be the packed game anyway) and those zeros are left untouched when the intro is running?

If not allowed, still fine, it just shifts my focus a bit towards a field I'm not so much interested in. And there's hardly any gain or loss concerning the 8kb restriction, so it feels a bit of a waste of effort to me. In the end I might know about packers and depackers, tho. Good for picking up girls. :)
2017-12-09 12:43
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11088
i told you that you should just supply a file that has to be linked :=) allowing what Hein is proposing is watering the intend of the rules IMHO - since it might no more work when the gap isnt just zeros (ie it may result in a file > 202 blocks)
2017-12-09 12:52
Trasher

Registered: Sep 2009
Posts: 8
Hi,

great idea! Let's see if I manage to participate..

Being an old cracker I don't quite understand the idea of the rules though. The limit of 8k makes sense to some degree, but not the really the rest (like the $d000 limit). Here's my point of view of different crack intros, some different types and ways of using them:

1. packed game, crunched intro+game
- game is packed (RLE packed) and placed behind the unpacked intro. Packed game must fit after the unpacked intro, eg. from $2800-$ffff. The intro runs and when done (space) most often relocates the packed game to $0801 and launches the unpacker.
- the whole blob, unpacked intro+packed game, is crunched.
- The resulting file must fit between $0801-$d000 to be able to be loaded by a standard kernal loader (201 blocks).

2. packed and crunched game, completely unpacked intro (since it is so small)
- in this case we don't care about packing the intro at all, it is just so small that it doesn't make a difference.
- the end result of unpacked intro+packed and crunched game must fit $0801-$d000 same as in #1


I guess there are variants of the above, that even I have used when required.. Feel free to add and comment.

IMHO the most simple rule is that when the intro exits, a certain area after has to be just as it was before the intro started. Say the area $2800-$ffff (I think most of my entries had about that size, maybe up-to $3000 sometimes). That would allow for relocating stuff if somebody for whatever reason wants a bitmap at $4000. Maybe the start of that untouchable region should be increased to allow for some more fancy stuff, that's a matter of discussion.

To have the crunched size as a limit doesn't make much sense to me.. Though that could be listed/seen as part of the compo - shorter crunched intro is definately better if you wanna get high up in the gamers guide charts! ;) so I would give such an intro higher points.

Just a quick point of view from a cracker.. There are probably others.

Cheers,
Trasher
2017-12-09 13:19
Dwangi

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 129
Hi.

Hmm should he intro be in one 8k block while running?
Like the old rules on 16k block, but now 8k???
2017-12-09 13:49
ChristopherJam

Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1359
Groepaz: as I mentioned in my initial post - I ignored a lot of good advice :-)

Trasher: thank you so much for the history lesson! I was somewhat surprised at the implication of Hein's post, it was starting to sound like the game was often doublecrunched. The historical separation of packing from crunching is something I still find somewhat bemusing.

I guess I was assuming something closer to scenario #2. The rules envision the area from 0x2800 to 0xcfff containing a packed+crunched game.

The intent of the "don't trash" rule is indeed that a certain area has to be just as it was before the intro started; I've just gone for $2800-$cfff to allow people the option of decrunching graphics or speedcode into the $d000-$ffff area.

The crunched size limit was just to ensure it would fits as a prefix for any file under (a fairly arbitrary) 42KB, and still be loadable with kernal load.
2017-12-09 13:58
ChristopherJam

Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1359
Quote: Hi.

Hmm should he intro be in one 8k block while running?
Like the old rules on 16k block, but now 8k???


The new rules allow you to also allow unrestricted use of $0000-$0800 and $d000-$ffff.

The only runtime restriction is that if you use any of $2800-$cfff you must restore it at exit.

For example, if you want to use all of the area from $0000 to $3fff, while the intro is running, you could copy the ram from $2800 to $3fff to the area from $e000-$f7ff, and copy it back on exit.
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