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Forums > C64 Pixeling > Double Screen Compo Voting
2011-05-08 17:10

Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 139
Double Screen Compo Voting

Okay - all entries are in and it is time for voting.

Take your time and check the pictures properly. If you like to check it on a C64, I'd recommend to turn off the volume, because music tends to alter atmosphere. Now here come the rules:


Deadline for voting is June 7th 2011 (know it is a long term but c64pixels-visitors are watching random)

Good luck to all contestants !

Looking Outward by Celtic, code by Zielok
Additional content according compo rules: Music
Format: MultiColor

Monroe 6569 by Diggr
Format: Charmode

Asteroidmine by Grass, code by Cruzer
Format: MultiColor

The Raven by Dane
Additional content according compo rules: Dark red and dark grey are laced
Format: MultiColor

CARGO by Twoflower, code by Cruzer
Additional content according compo rules: Music
Picture format: MultiColor, 4-colors, Colorscheme is matching Charmode

A Kind of Magic by Yazoo, code by Axis
Additional content according compo rules: Music, scrolltext (can be disabled by pressing spacebar)
Picture format: MultiColor
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2011-05-18 11:04

Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 822
The motivation for doing a copy can be to wow the scene, but I think this motivation tells something about the artist. Same as the motivation to do an original piece. In my opinion, both motivations are valid to compete in the same competition. One wants to win maybe, other wants to show originality.

Same goes with music competitions, there are house tracks and random noise tracks. Both are valid to compete, no complaints during voting and the house track is likely to score higher.
2011-05-18 11:44

Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 270
I would ask the question on here that, should the competitions be limited to "original" art, would we actually get "the Best" or would we just get compos full of cutesy cartoons, surreal objects and colour explosions? I don't remember seeing any "Roger Deans" doing c64 art recently tbh.


2011-05-18 12:06

Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 244
I think in a normal graphics competition that is not specifically a "copy-compo" or something you should try to do the best YOU can, not the best someone else can do.
2011-05-18 12:23

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 1548
Hmm... The discussion above is interesting in many ways, and I think that one problem is how we, talented, gifted and intelligent beings, relate to the concept of "art". Richard Wollheim states in "Art and its Objects" (1980) that art is "one of the most elusive of the traditional problems of human culture", and the discussion may go on forever if we do not understand that we all have different views on that subject.

Maybe anyone else have thoughts about the history of scene graphics? From that history we may be able to point out the main lines that may define what we mean with what we are doing. I would love to discuss that. We already have over 20 years of history. I would be shocked if we were unable to define why and what we are doing at compos.

And again: I did not init this discussion trying to stop Dane or anyone else from doing what they love to do. I am just pointing out the problem of judging the quality of pictures and skill of artists in a compo, if they by definition have two different principle origins.

I believe that compos through history were organized to promote originality and technical skill (the scene is obsessed by elite thinking, and competition, as we all know - that's a main part of the fun), and should also keep on doing that. Am i right?
2011-05-18 12:25

Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 270
and if you don't give your audience what THEY want to see you create apathy and all your competition entries are a waste of time.

and it seems to me that the "audience" on here would rather see a mixture of original items AND sharply executed copies.

i would say yet again...

artists should not dictate the nature of future competitions. The voters should.

2011-05-18 12:36

Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 139
hm. i think it is better for me to quit all scene activities for a while. i cannot stand this unreasonable slugfest anymore. imo it was always the major opportunity of the c64 scene for people doing what they want to do. it is no professional department and i am sure that requesting too much control does no favor in this case. see ya.
2011-05-18 12:42

Registered: May 2004
Posts: 645
Uh, 'Art' is a dangerous word ;-)
Also it brings in the point of the audience.
Among 'artists' I often observe great jealousy if a big impact is reached with little effort.
Same with music which you can easyly mark as art, too.
Popsongs sell best, no matter how much more clever classical, alternative, etc music might be.
As a musician I would go bananas if my uber-song loses hands down to a 3 chord popsong - which usually happens btw.
Same with pictures.
All too many photopgraphy forums witness that a nude-pic tends to get all the attention - no matter how cheap or plain it was made. Not by all visitors, but by the majority.
As mermaid put it: fear.
Getting rid of (unfair?) competitors is nothing else than the fear of losing to 'inferior' art. Which is a contradiction in itself.
As Oscar Wilde put it: 'all art is quite useless'.
Either enjoy what you do and do it, or don't.
It's worth nothing if you're doing it not for you.
If you do it for others, live with the fact that others may lack your 'depth' or merely point of view on things.
This behavior is quite natural. I disfavor SCPU and REU based effects since this threatens my niche of c64 coding that Im familiar with, too :) (Blureu at breakpoint has caused a smiliar discussion than this here).
With one exception:
most people here did not participate and even state that they will continue not to.
I fail to understand why. Seriously. This compo was announced for quite some time. The entries had a good chance of getting a big audience which was known from the start. There are very, very few gfx compos out there. Even less outside of parties. In my opinion: for all that actually give a damn about gfx compos: this was(!) THE chance to contribute and bring a change! You can not change things by doing nothing. Noone complained about the rules which were clearly stated either. We received several requests about the strictness of the rules (scroller, music allowed etc) and veto took all of them into account.
I really do understand what the 'full artists' (idea,motive,handcraft,pixel) here want to say, but it is (sadly) very much pointless (since the compo ended and non of 'you' contributed).
I see no valid excuse for it (except for: I was not interessted enough).
Future compos will certainly consider and integrate much of what has been said here. Yet, if you apply those 'standards' (which are NEW (good maybe, but new nontheless)) here, we end up with two entries.
Yay for you gfx scene - sorry, lame remark by me.
2011-05-18 12:43

Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 221
artists should not dictate the nature of future competitions. The voters should.

exactly what i say... i for myself dont like 1:1 scans, with just little touching up. but its the voters who decide... if they vote high on a scan - they will not disappear - and we gotta live with that i guess.

its like with the economic system... when only very few ppl buy a product, it wont be produced anymore.
so i still hope that the voters will be sensitised a little more, and not "buy" cheapo scans.

still i wouldnt mind some more strict compo-rules (workstages, no touched up scans allowed...)
yep - there will still be unrevealed scans, but atleast a few less i guess. and reverse engineering for workstages makes scanning less attractive, because it is going to eat some extra-time.
on the other hand we shouldnt overregulate things.

as for hand-made copies... i have no real problem with them, when someone obviously spent lots of time on them, and added some extra-c64-feeling. they were always part of the c64 szene.

and for this compo... i am still happy that veto and enthusi organized it. it lead to an interesting discussion, which is a good thing. maybe just some ppl need to calm down a little.
2011-05-18 13:04

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 218
Veto... you are right... I understand what you say here... I will not post more in this thread.. it is to nerdy even for me... going on in all directions... You just wanted to hold something fun and now it is a nightmare for you... I see this... bad bad bad... You did something and you of all should get pro feedback for doing so... thanx for doing something for the scene. You dudes also gathered prizes and all... not fun anymore that now... I understand you Veto. This sucks!

mermaid, you are right, STE you are right, PAL are right and all others are right too... let us just keep it the scene way and the real quality voters we have will vote for the better ones... no matter what...

We all killed SIT returning to the scene, let us just not kill the whole scene too... I told you dudes that things like this is just the start of the end... Kill the scene or just leave it alive, breathing, evolving and free... up to yah all... the more struggle and work and negative energy one gets from this hobby the faster this hobby will just end... the more fun and posetivety we get from this hobby, the longer the scene will stay and even attract new members that want a fun hang around and framework for their hobby with good friends and meetings and compos and all... we are a smal family and should take care of each other... it is about having fun this... and now this does just feel lame and bitter and negative... I hang up for a week too...

Yours PAL
2011-05-18 13:23

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1512
Quoting Veto
hm. i think it is better for me to quit all scene activities for a while. i cannot stand this unreasonable slugfest anymore. imo it was always the major opportunity of the c64 scene for people doing what they want to do. it is no professional department and i am sure that requesting too much control does no favor in this case. see ya.

While I encourage to continue your fantastic work, I exactly know how do you feel. This thread represents most of the reasons why I decided to avoid CSDb and the C64 scene.
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