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Conrad
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 833 |
The sid stealing continues! ...
... and this times it's not Timberland, but Frankmusik:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWDLsuPK280&feature=related
Jeff/ViruZ identified at 2:20 that it's his "caste camelot.sid" playing right there in the new release "3 Little Words"!
Frankmus(uck)'s myspace channel: http://www.myspace.com/frankmusik
I'm really ashamed of my people! :/ |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034 |
Let's wait for final decision in GRG versus TIMBO case (24th of Jan 2009) and then we'll see what can be (legally) done with those sid-arpegio-greedy bastards. |
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Soren
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547 |
Shame on the commercial musicians! ;-)
Castle Camelot was used in this old music collection:
Music Pack 1
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Fanta
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 26 |
i hope both musicians (i consider jeff as the better one :-) will get in contact and find a solution because another timbaland affair would suck and i can't see why commercial musicians are unable to get permissions when they want to use chip tunes.
cheers,
fanta |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
Hm, I'd rather see this as a hommage to Jeff than "stealing his tune". It's 4 bars used as a break, not like he's based his whole song on those. But I leave it to you how mad you want to get about this, to me this is not much of a big deal. I've heard it's called sampling and they do it a thousand times every day. Just my 2 c. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
what steppe said + *yawn* |
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goto80
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 138 |
semi-yawn, but bare in mind that this is a proper commercial release on island records. (i am not sure why that feels different from an amateur doing it, but, yeah..) i even made a blog-post, hmm: http://chipflip.wordpress.com |
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Soren
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547 |
I am not mad about it at all - I just think it's a crappy tendency. I just think it's rather low of those people to not do the little job of digging out info to contact the original composers and ask. I am sure that in a case like this one I would just say, "go ahead and use it", but please give me some credits atleast." Name and nickname is usually in the sid file, anyways. :)
@Goto80: thanks for the blog-post. :) |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034 |
Goto80. Very decent post. Thanx for sharing. If I was ever using RSS reader you would be in instantly ;-)
roman |
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Celtic
Administrator
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 807 |
@Jeff: wait till he is successfull and sue his ass off :) |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Quote: Let's wait for final decision in GRG versus TIMBO case (24th of Jan 2009) and then we'll see what can be (legally) done with those sid-arpegio-greedy bastards.
GRG case is different. Much larger part of music is stolen.
This is just a short sample. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11101 |
doesnt really matter. remember the "björk" case... a sample of a single snare hit is enough :) |
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Soren
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547 |
I will probably not take it that far in this case, still I wish I had been asked for permission, as that's atleast a more respectable way of doing it. :-) |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034 |
Quote: I will probably not take it that far in this case, still I wish I had been asked for permission, as that's atleast a more respectable way of doing it. :-)
Amen. |
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Akira
Registered: Oct 2003
Posts: 52 |
Quote: I will probably not take it that far in this case, still I wish I had been asked for permission, as that's atleast a more respectable way of doing it. :-)
Yeh, man, how fucking HARD is it to put "I sampled this from this person"?? NOT AT ALL. Why can't these people give credit where credit is due? Do they think it's not deserved or what? |
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dalezy
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 475 |
i wonder .. if .. they're going to sue the lot of us if the covercompo's on? :D
jeff - after all, i for one would be interested if the guy behind frankmusik is actually aware of all that; i mean, him taking bits of your work and that it's currently discussed. :) you never know what strange way loops/samples may go through until they finally meet their new master .. |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1627 |
I give a shit! |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034 |
Quote: i wonder .. if .. they're going to sue the lot of us if the covercompo's on? :D
jeff - after all, i for one would be interested if the guy behind frankmusik is actually aware of all that; i mean, him taking bits of your work and that it's currently discussed. :) you never know what strange way loops/samples may go through until they finally meet their new master ..
have you ever heard about concept of fair use?
and about that awareness, Goto80 wrote on his blog that MySpace page of the frankmusis dude states that he samples c64. |
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Fanta
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 26 |
there is another sid part in one of frankmusiks tunes at 2:20:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbWjiE63Nl0
the usage of the leadsound is familiar to me (jammer?) but i have no clue if this is ripped from an existing sid or not. maybe someone is able to recognize it... come on guys! =) |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034 |
This video is not available in your country... wtf?
ok managed to bypass it.. I don't recognize that part. Never heard that before. Maybe Jammer could try to listen ;-) |
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Conrad
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 833 |
ok... just thought I'd say ignore my idiotic reaction at the beginning of this thread (i.e. when i said "Frankmus(uck)") To be honest, Frankmusik does actually make some nice stuff (thought pop isn't really my favorite genre), but as Jeff says, it would be more generous if he had mentioned Jeff as part of credit to the music in regard of the snippet of the sid tune he used for that ~5-8 seconds. As Frankmusik is still very young (21-22 as far as i'm aware) he probably hadn't been aware of the consequences of using material from a scene that has been around before he was even born. Judging from his style of music, I hardly doubt he is in contact with timberland for that matter and learning that it's "safe" to use someone else's work without permission.
As for the the video Fanta posted... no idea who made the tune, though you'll probably have to check some of the professionals. ;) |
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 465 |
Reminds me of a PFK lead from Beer Station. Some good stuff was made by him. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1289 |
i didn't manage to pass the problem meant by creamd. roman, how did you solve 'country problem'? one of that youtube-download software? ;) |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
You can use a proxy. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1289 |
yodelking kindly provided me a proxy website and i've just checked that out. it's definitely not mine ;) thx for fanta for pm'ing me about this one ;) i cannot really recognize, who's the author anyway ;)
edit: stryyker is right! it's exactly pfk's 'beer station' |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Quote: there is another sid part in one of frankmusiks tunes at 2:20:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbWjiE63Nl0
the usage of the leadsound is familiar to me (jammer?) but i have no clue if this is ripped from an existing sid or not. maybe someone is able to recognize it... come on guys! =)
too bad i cant see it.
"not available in your country"...
anyone can dl it and send to me ? |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Ok seen it..
For me it sounds like some sid, speeded up.. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1289 |
Quote: Ok seen it..
For me it sounds like some sid, speeded up..
read posts above, case solved ;) |
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goto80
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 138 |
what's the name of frankmusik's song? |
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Fanta
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 26 |
goto80: it's called "in step". should be easily accessible via youtube...
from 2:20 you can hear this:
http://www.c64.org/HVSC/MUSICIANS/P/PFK/Beer_Station.sid
maybe someone should inform PFK... |
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Yodelking
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 189 |
Quote: goto80: it's called "in step". should be easily accessible via youtube...
from 2:20 you can hear this:
http://www.c64.org/HVSC/MUSICIANS/P/PFK/Beer_Station.sid
maybe someone should inform PFK...
I've informed PFK. Who was "flattered"... ;) |
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Devia
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 401 |
Quote: Let's wait for final decision in GRG versus TIMBO case (24th of Jan 2009) and then we'll see what can be (legally) done with those sid-arpegio-greedy bastards.
I hate open questions in forum threads, so...
According to remix64.com
Quoting Chris AbbotOK, here's the news on the case: the court screwed up royally.
Basically, GRG's side was making three claims (sampling, performance rights, producer rights). The court only ruled on one of them (performance rights, whether the SID was sufficiently different to the Amiga version to justify authorship rights - they said no), ignored the two important ones and threw the case out: which means the court just decided not to even rule whether it was a sample or not: so they ignored the most important facet of the case.
So, now it's back to the court of appeal to get it straightened out, since this is an obvious legal error. So, nothing to see here, nothing to see...
Chris
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chancer
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 342 |
Jeff , I did a bit of looking into it.. if it's 3 little words..
have you heard both versions of it? they change the part you did .. I'm guessing after what happened with janne / grg's thing..
it was released as a very limited edition EP.. 100 records though..
I'm not sure if that version is on an
the label itself , is based in a building I used to work in many moons ago (it's basically a load of studios in a complex) . I can pass on some details to you if you'd like
http://www.discogs.com/artist/Frankmusik
that specific tune was remixed a number of times.. so tricky to say what version it was.
also 200 copies of it were made..
http://www.discogs.com/Frankmusik-3-Little-Words/release/1586992
but maybe see if the one on itunes IS featuring the sid.
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Sequencer
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 13 |
As a musician who grew up within the demoscene and eventually did game music, recorded music, commercial music... I don't know if I agree one bit at the scene's almost immediate skewering of people who sample. It seems like an almost programmed overreaction in some cases (like this one). You can't keep culture locked up in a bubble and only accessible by secret handshake.
Bearing in mind that a lot of the music that influenced myself and many others (electro, early hiphop, post punk/wave etc.) relied heavily on renegade snippets to outright theft. Electro boosted Kraftwerk, HipHop boosted Electro and Punk, New Wave boosted Electro and made it white, and so on. And before sampling there was 'borrowful' composition.
And by the way, if I can recall back in the day ('88-'92 demo scene was more or less my time on the scene) people were stealing each other's code, SID replayer routines and in some cases just using each other's patterns from songs to manipulate and learn and make new songs from. How many times did somebody do a track that basically had JT's Eliminator bassline in it??? Drax' Warriors sounds a lot like JT's Myth. Oh and JT sampled Yes' seminal Owner of a Lonely Heart orchestral hit in his Outrun Europe soundtrack, which was a commercial release with a pretty big publisher at the time. And shit, I have sampled the piss out of things from bits of obscure vinyl (see JAL: Tour of Asia c. 1968 amongst others on The New Tetris/N64 game soundtrack) -- and yes, for fun I sampled some blips and fragments of C64 music and used it in music for TV when I was doing scoring for MTV/VH1 here in the states. I didn't do this because I couldn't make SID music, or because I was lazy or wanted to steal people's ideas... I did this because I enjoyed the idea of hearing that stuff piping out of people's TV sets and maybe some of them having deja vu.
I agree that sampled artists should be credited and compensated when sensible and possible, especially on tracks like Timbaland's. That said I believe sampling is in and of itself an art form, one that can be done masterfully, where it is basically done in part as an homage to the original or makes something entirely new from it, or poorly (ala Timbaland/P. Diddy or people who basically just boost a whole track and drop a little more bass in it). But 'poorly' is also subjective. If Timbaland can boost something, tweak it, pack it up and expose it to a whole another generation of people, and they are in turn influenced and inspired by it, than who I am really to judge and say he has no cultural merit? (Not saying he shouldn't be paying for that or crediting it appropriately... these aren't the marginalized, broke-ass early hip-hop producers of yesteryear).
In THIS case I think the sample is in perfect taste. And I'd withhold much judgement until I saw the LP -- maybe it has credits in the liner notes, and it is quite possible Jeff may get contacted by somebody to clear the sample (from a label) if there is ever going to be a bigger release. I know people who work in the music industry who basically do this for a living (clear rights and license), and believe it or not a LOT of labels ask the artists to give them a list of everything they sampled so they can go try to clear it. If they can't clear it they often ask the artist to mix it out (or re-score it). Unfortunately in many cases artists are artists -- they forget what they sampled, or they don't want to tell the label because they are afraid the label will ask them to remove something they think is important to their work. They can be lazy, flakey, disrespectful little cultural commodities.
In this case I think the recording artist could easily have recreated something like this riff. He sculpted the sample... it is pitch shifted/time shifted. And the track 'around' it albeit pop is produced quite well and reminds me nostalgically of the early demo scene vibe. He could have easily and cheaply taken a sidstation or even quadrasid and thrown in an octave arp bass thing and a couple of arp chords. But in a funny way, to me, that would have had less magic than hearing this sample.
Frankmusik was born in '86. That's when I got my C-64. He is sampling music that is reminiscent of a time where he was 2-8 years old. I can fully relate to that...
The original composer SHOULD contact the label and ask them for credit and some compensation (and expect it). But we should all chill out and realize that we all borrow and steal in many ways. If we didn't we wouldn't still be working with 12 tones.
- Neil Voss aka Sequencer |
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Playboy
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 20 |
As a part of the music industry (I have my own record label now and worked for 2 major's in the past years) I can confirm what sequencer wrote about clearance and what is the industry attitude towards clearing samples. Not long ago I signed a track that the artist told me was 100% original. Later I sent it to some of the teams working with us to have it remixed and they recognized a heavy sample into it (which I hadn't recognized before). When asking the artist he said he had filtered the sample and he didnt think this would hurt anyone... Just imagine what could have happened if I did not had tried to have the track remixes and release it as it is...
So I agree clearance is out of discussion. In 2008 anything used should get a credit AND proper remuneration, but I still recognize the social value of sampling in the creativity process.
My 5 cents. |
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chancer
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 342 |
sequencer well because of the demo scene, thats how I got into music. I used to give demos to a producer and got to know a few labels because of it. (Thats why the way things are annoys me, as I have a lot of time for both demos and music.)
Thats going back to hhm 91 or so... musicians normally get the whole creative thing IF they are doing it for the love of music (and not just making money) and were amazed at what people were doing.. I mean the whole package, code / art / music.
you'd pay a session singer / musician , so why not a scener. the "I sampled it without knowing" argument is weak, esp if they load up sidplay it clearly shows the persons name (as well as the folder names) AND it's not like they aren't contactable..how many of these things were downloaded off HV ? I'm sure they would forward on messages to the composers in question.
If they don't want to clear it, then let them make their OWN work in say quadra-sid etc.
I use samples a LOT, but I'm VERY sure of their clearence status and have paid a license to use them e.g. sample cd's. Things like the classic example.. the amen break.. were commercial but mr cooper (the winstons) never got paid for the original tune. He never chased anyone for sampling it either.
sequencer / playboy .. you'd both ask sid musicians I'm sure.
It's not even about business vs scene... it's just about saying.. "ya know what.. thats great.. this guy needs paying or at least a credit.. he saved us a lot of time" and doing the right thing (although we all know the music world is shark infested waters)
part of the reason for them sampling I guess. to see what they can get away with.. oh it's obscure.. no one will know.. or it's a "demo" , but they use the context in the wrong way (as in a demo off a keyboard).. Also the fact it's not from a game, where it's VERY easily proven when the game was released.
Any labels I've worked with will ALWAYS ask about the status of samples, if so either clear them OR use something else that isn't gonna be problematic.. as a few of them have been caught out in the past and had to pay a bill regarding clearence later.
Playboy long time since x95 =) hope your well.
I'm going try to contact frankmusik to see what happens about it and see if they want to contact Jeff at least. I think he should get a mention at the VERY least. |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
It's nice that some part of a melody can survive, being used as a sample in a new track, going to a new generation..
BUT..
Instead, creative and able as I am, I would try to bring the original music to the listener, and not cut it up and mangle it and so on.
People who do this just have no talent at all, and are only doing it for making money.
So they can kiss my ass.
You sample = You pay! A LOT!
I won't be happy if a tune i made, and love dearly, will be presented in a new version, where the whole background is cut away, and only the 4 famous notes are present.
This is destruction of MY ART! |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11101 |
destruction can be an art by itself =)
also there is a whole culture formed around just playing the best 4 bars of a tune over and over (you know which). and thats an art by itself too. |
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Playboy
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 20 |
I dont remember mentioning they should not pay for sampling. I was just mentiong that the trick ppl are most likely not supposed to be the guys at the record label, but the producer/artist.
Chancer: thx, good to be back here :-)
And agree with Groepaz on the art definition too!
Andrea |
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Sequencer
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 13 |
Quoting chancerMusicians normally get the whole creative thing IF they are doing it for the love of music (and not just making money)
I don't know if making money and creativity are mutually exclusive, or that what one person believes about sampling is the same as another. Yeah the majority of people sort of understand this notion of 'fair use' (subjectively, creative use and not exploiting the original material beyond reason without compensating whoever owns the rights to the original), sort of.
But I find people also tend to contradict themselves a lot here. People will complain about others who sample a riff or break out of a C-64 song, who have in themselves used the Amen break or other samples from older music, some without even knowing it...
Quoting chanceryou'd pay a session singer / musician , so why not a scener. the "I sampled it without knowing" argument is weak
It certainly is a weak argument. I think in many circumstances artists work in the heat of the moment. They aren't thinking about logistics when making music. If they are an artist who samples they are thinking of the result they desire, not whether or not they can clear the sample or make sure it gets properly credited. Reality doesn't set in until later, when and if the music gets marketed, and then there are many good and bad reasons artists will not take the high road (like if they simply know there is no way in hell a sample will clear or they can't afford it). For example, I know that to sample a pretty major track can cost upwards of $10k. An artist who may only sell a few thousand albums (or even less than 100,000 of them) can't really afford to do this, so their choices are don't do it at all, or occlude what they did and hope for the best.
Obviously that doesn't apply here... here we have an artist who is in early development and probably has at least some money to play with (they shot a video with some hot people dancing, and the track sounds pretty mastered, etc.). So you'd sort of hope they'd do the right thing and credit the lift on the album and compensate the sampled artist.
Quoting chancerIt's not even about business vs scene... it's just about saying.. "ya know what.. thats great.. this guy needs paying or at least a credit.. he saved us a lot of time" and doing the right thing (although we all know the music world is shark infested waters)
part of the reason for them sampling I guess. to see what they can get away with.. oh it's obscure.. no one will know.. or it's a "demo" , but they use the context in the wrong way (as in a demo off a keyboard).. Also the fact it's not from a game, where it's VERY easily proven when the game was released.
I don't think everybody samples to save time. In some cases it may have been easier not to. And I don't think everybody samples from obscure sources to try to conceal their efforts. You have to understand - for a musician who samples in the 'creative' way it is about making a reference to something, sometimes preferably obscure. It is there so that others might enjoy how you transformed something, and might relate to the reference you made. I think a lot of people have discovered new old music by hearing it sampled first. For example a generation of kids now know who Breakwater is because Daft Punk reshaped Release the Beast into Robot Rock.
That said, the better thing to do would be to credit and pay for the material whenever possible.
Quoting rambonesInstead, creative and able as I am, I would try to bring the original music to the listener, and not cut it up and mangle it and so on.
I think what you are missing here is the listener may not be interested in the original... or may be interested how somebody can contextualize something (how they cut it up, how they mangle it, what they mix it with). The sum of the parts sort of thing.
Quoting rambonesPeople who do this just have no talent at all, and are only doing it for making money.
That is a pretty hand-line stance. I think people who outright boost music (like Timbaland) show a lack of a specific sort of musical creativity (but show tremendous acumen in their social and marketing talents). But to say everybody who samples anything has no talent and only does it for money is a bit broad. It would mean that a considerable number of musicians (if we accept a wide enough definition of what a 'musician' is) have no talent.
Quoting rambonesI won't be happy if a tune i made, and love dearly, will be presented in a new version, where the whole background is cut away, and only the 4 famous notes are present.
This is destruction of MY ART!
You are definitely entitled to feel that way. But what you miss here is that other people -- an audience -- might be happy about it (they may like what somebody did with it more than the original). This is just a sad but true reality - some people are more adept at reaching an audience of a group of people (small or big) by speaking their language. You may not speak their language. You can be mad about this, and fight it and say their culture has no value or they are ignorant not to accept your original art and understand your language. Or you can accept it and feel like part of something bigger than yourself or your own vision. Obviously it is easier to accept things when you don't end up feeling financially exploited in the end...
We are all standing on the shoulders of giants (I guess was my original point). If it isn't sampling it is in the way we compose, the chords we use, the sounds we use, the beats we use, etc. are all for the most part shared ideas. Technology has made us more adept at sharing, for better or worse. There are always people who have done things that others find to be in distaste. But without them the world would probably be a pretty static place.
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Artists that are a result of a producer behind them, are crap, go only for fame and money, and are the thieves of music business.
Real artists make sounds and lyrics and music themselves.
I guess you know this..
I have only respect for the last mentioned.
The rest will be sued to hell and the outer limits if they ever steal from me.
To say... if Rolling stones will remix me, i would let them.
If some producer's popchick will loop 4 seconds ripped from my music, THEYRE GOING DOWN! |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11101 |
Quote:if Rolling stones will remix me, i would let them.
or madonna, whose music isn't purely result of the producers behind it? o_O |
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Sequencer
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 13 |
Quoting rambonesArtists that are a result of a producer behind them, are crap, go only for fame and money, and are the thieves of music business.
Yeah, well in those cases the producer is the artist for the most part. Those people are more or less performers and that has as much to do with sex appeal as it does talent. Which doesn't really explain Amy Winehouse.
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11101 |
doesnt explain britney either =D |
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chancer
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 342 |
I thought you'd like to know, I've been in touch with the man himself about Jeff's work.. He replied promptly and I've passed on Jeff's email address.
anyways, hopefully Jeff and himself can sort it out..
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Playboy
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 20 |
...which is very good! |
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chancer
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 342 |
wait and see playboy, I guess.. I'd like to think it would be sorted in a positive manner, but seeing as both sides are being well .. mature, hopefully it will be. I mean the reply I got back, personally to me seemed was honest and he was un-aware.
So I'd like to see both of them resolve it. I did tell him about the PFK tune.. but well if PFK wants me to forward on something, I don't mind him contacting me.
p.s. Jeff you owe me 20p for phone calls ;-) |
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Soren
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547 |
@Chancer: I'll mail you a beer or buy you one if we meet some day :-) |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Why wait ? Cybersex today! |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 453 |
"This is destruction of MY ART!"
nobody sampled your tunes, don't shout |
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chancer
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 342 |
Randall, ya know why Rambones shouts so much...
see the previous post above yours is probably the cause... hehe.. I'm guessing as I'm pretty sure Rambones mentioned it in other threads.
and Rambones, well I was in a position to help with it so tried. Not all people who sample are as bad as mr "tin o paint" ... dunno which is worse , that he takes so much and does NOTHING to change it up.. or the fact he's an rude / arrogant *cough* that finds it SO easy to lie.
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
Check this new release out. Includes a couple of SID tunes, most notably tracks A1 & A5.
http://www.juno.co.uk/ppps/products/343943-01.htm |
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Yodelking
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 189 |
Zyron, atleast the original artists are credited... :)
http://www.juno.co.uk/covers/343943-01-back.htm
I like A1. :) |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
Ah, they really are credited. Good. I forgot to check that & just assumed they weren't, like in most cases. :)
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yago
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 332 |
dubtari (and the whole jahtari label) is a dub/reggae thing which love bleepy style.
They released most of their Stuff for free download, and yes, they do credit the original composers.
This is actually the counter-example to timbaland, the way sid stealing is a good thing.
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chancer
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 342 |
yago , the whole bleep thing etc.. is part of the sound system culture.. so of course c64 is prime for sampling..
things like the vst-i "dub siren" have a few effects like that.. or if you listen to jungle thats ragga / reggae based it'll either include samples off old reggae sound tapes or weird electronic noises..
I grew up surrounded by it in an area famous for dub / reggae bands etc... so it's not so alien to me. |
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booker
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 333 |
Quote: Quote:if Rolling stones will remix me, i would let them.
or madonna, whose music isn't purely result of the producers behind it? o_O
And Madonna should sue Dane! :-> |
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Yodelking
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 189 |
Quote: And Madonna should sue Dane! :->
Thanks to Dane, I actually listened to more Madonna tracks, just to compare. :) |
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MAC
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 40 |
I just came across another "sid-stealing" if you want to call it like this.
It's in the track 'Control' by DJ Hell, where he sample'd the bassline from Hülsbeck's 'Ski Dance'.
http://www.lastfm.de/music/DJ+Hell/_/Control
Really, isn't it just cheap to sample a cool bassline from a classic tune, build some shit around it
and ready is the new song. I personally would never dare to do something like this. |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1627 |
No, it is okay to do cheap things.
:) |
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MAC
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 40 |
I agree, as long as it has grown on your own dung. ;) |
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RaveGuru
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 41 |
I think I found the perhaps biggest, unblushing Hubbard rip off to date. Indonesian RnB star Anggun who's pursuing an international career in France released an album last year, produced by the french hiphop/RnB duo Tefa and Masta. The album is released in three different versions: english, french and indonesian and they all carry this track with different lyrics.
The entire track as well as the antistrophe is based on the main theme of Hubbard's International Karate tune. The steal is so obvious, EVEN THE KEY REMAINS UNCHANGED!!
Now please judge for yourselves and prepare to get stunned! :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj_TcOtgvv4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_aGoL78tQY&NR=1
RaveGuru |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
OUTRAGEOUS!! |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
<Post edited by Zyron on 12/5-2009 13:46>
The theme in question was composed by Ryuichi Sakamoto & David Sylvian for the movie "Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence" though & was "stolen" by Hubbard too. |
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1568 |
Uhm...Rob Hubbard used "Forbidden Colours" by Ryuichi Sakamoto & David Sylvian for his IK-tune.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1YkHJJi-tc
So hold your horses. |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
Btw, I bought Abe Duque - "Champagne Days, Cocaine Nights" some time ago & have tried to identify what SID they might have sampled for this track. Sounds like Whittaker to me but I couldn't find this one in his HVSC directory. Could they have composed it themselves? |
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RaveGuru
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 41 |
Quote: Uhm...Rob Hubbard used "Forbidden Colours" by Ryuichi Sakamoto & David Sylvian for his IK-tune.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1YkHJJi-tc
So hold your horses.
Cool! I was totally unaware of this composition. Must admit I prefer Anggun's version though :)
Well, so much for trying to stir up a fuzz =D |
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j0x
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 215 |
Quote: Btw, I bought Abe Duque - "Champagne Days, Cocaine Nights" some time ago & have tried to identify what SID they might have sampled for this track. Sounds like Whittaker to me but I couldn't find this one in his HVSC directory. Could they have composed it themselves?
Yup, that's Knight Tyme |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
Quote: Yup, that's Knight Tyme
Ah, thanks. I was _sure_ it had to be Whittaker but could not find it. Ok so the SID stealing continues, no mention of Whittaker on that record. |
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1568 |
And what about this one?
Harmonic 313 - Cyclotron C64sid
(or http://www.zshare.net/audio/5895297279e5a2e1/ )
Do some samplespotting and guess the SID's!
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Quote: And what about this one?
Harmonic 313 - Cyclotron C64sid
(or http://www.zshare.net/audio/5895297279e5a2e1/ )
Do some samplespotting and guess the SID's!
bad arkanoid stealing, and a sample from the amiga game chaos engine.. |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 453 |
why 'bad', i actually enjoyed this one |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Quote: why 'bad', i actually enjoyed this one
We like different things :) |
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goto80
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 138 |
@zyron: at discogs they say that creds to whittaker are on the record.. > http://www.discogs.com/Abe-Duque-Champagne-Days-Cocaine-Nights/..
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1627 |
I guess Zyron may actually have written that comment on discogs? |
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NecroPolo
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 231 |
Much interesting info in this thread.
I did a lot of "SID stealing" back in the time, but it was based only on my unreleased old SIDs (that were based on guitar riffs, anyway) so all was kept inhouse.
Recently, I used QuadraSID, Basic64 and Unknown64 VSTi stuff extensively for making SID remixes - but SID remixing is not much of a stealing, I assume :) |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
Quote: @zyron: at discogs they say that creds to whittaker are on the record.. > http://www.discogs.com/Abe-Duque-Champagne-Days-Cocaine-Nights/..
I added that to the notes (like Frantic suggested), there's nothing mentioned on the record. |
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 321 |
You see, the people who steal music from us SID
composers are nothing but fucking lamers who should
be shot and buried in a desert somewhere.
If I find anyone ripping off MY SID 'ORIGINAL' compositions,
and using samples without my knowledge and permission,
I'll fly to your country and I'll cut your f****** lame head off (taliban style!!)
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR SHAMELESSLY SAMPLING
(C)OPYRIGHTED WORX OF SID MUSICIANS!
It happened to me before, and the person who
did it will regret it for the rest of his
lame life.. he does not want another broken nose!!!
>> Adam/Usagi << |
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MAC
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 40 |
WTF!? Is this some kind of sick joke? You badly need to calm down, seriously! |
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PAL
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 269 |
Get a life if you are so angry... man... the old greats did steal alot too... and for their work to return to traditional recording artists again is just ending or continuing a loop for me...
Also one should remember that most sids sounds horrible to others than us, the scene... it needs to be blended or used together with something for normal humans to even be able to listen to it for even a minute or two... ha ha... I love sid tunes but I also know very well that I am sick and destroyed in this way.
Last time I played sid music for friends were at a party and I tuned in the speedway track, the hard techno... and man that is close to be something that my friends could love.. because it is more hard than just a sid in my opinion... then the police came because the neighbours had called them about this totally ugly sounds comming out from this house we were in... the police said they could hear the horrible and painful noise a long way... ha ha...
PAL
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 321 |
Haha!!! that's happened to me too!
I invited the cops in, showed them what we
were doing and found it funny to see a C128-D
hooked up to my amp! Some of them used to have
C64's and found the setup very interesting indeed!
After telling me in basic terms to "Shut the fuck
up - turn shit down!" ..
they left and all was good... :))
And yes.. I do have a life.. and a great life
it is! :))
Yo PAL.. let me explain my situation..
When someone KNOWS how much work you've put into
something, even being there in the room with you
while I slaved away with a tune then the same
person had to have the balls to sample my shit
and use it in his own work - and make money from it,
that's not very nice at all!
What I did was completely wrong and was another
lifetime ago (to me anyway) and im a much better
person than that now but at the time I was really
really angry that a great friend could betray me
like that. I found out that it was not just me but
other friends of his as well that he was ripping
off! - It would have been ok if he asked - i would
not have given a fuck, but to go behind my back like
that for the sake of money is quite low...
Hope people can understand..
Love for the scene..
>> Adam/Usagi << |
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Fredrik
Registered: Apr 2009
Posts: 204 |
That is a thing I can not understand.
Who can anybody DON´T like the wonderful sound of the sidchip?
The sound is like candy for the ears. so sweet sound...
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Tim
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: |
PAL, if you want another track to play on a good bass set-up, here's a raw track:
http://www.c64.org/HVSC/MUSICIANS/R/Randy/Shake_n_Bounce.sid
I don't totally agree with you that sid sounds awful to the plain ear, but ..yes.. being selective in what you have to play to a non-c64 audience is certainly true ;)
On topic: well, I have to agree with Adam actually, although I would have chosen some softer words to express myself ;)
And as for this comment "..the old greats did steal alot too... and for their work to return to traditional recording artists again is just ending or continuing a loop for me.."
Does that make it good/better?
Well.. for the old days IÂ’ll way as an argument that stealing an arrangement for this new thing -the computer- was very unlikely to be seen as stealing at all, in fact IÂ’m sure that many of us picked up their first piano (or alike) books and punched in easy tunes from sheetmusic to c64 as one of the first things whilst starting on sids.
On the other hand, if Hubbard (or others) would do similar today in these times, I would certainly shout SHAME ON YOU quite loudly. So how about lets say the times change and we learned that computers have made a big impact on all of our lives?
In my views.. “stealing” in the sense of being inspired by someone’s work and re-producing it with an own touch.. well, that's fine.. no need to credit people on every single bit you do, but nice if you could name some in an interview for instance as inspiration.. but then really re-produce! For example learn how to compose on sid if you like that sound and recreate in an own sid. It takes forever sometimes to make something work. Sample that.. and I have no problem. Anything else is theft in my honnest opinion.
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MAC
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 40 |
I agree with PAL about the sid-incompatibility for normal peoples ears and that it has to be
mixed with studio sound to ease the pain for them. :)
Sometimes when i have played some sid tunes over the amp, my brother has complained.
He said that some sounds are to high for him and hurt in his ears and he even is familiar with sid-sound,
but obviously not enough to listen to it like any other music.
It seems that for "normal" ears the sid sound is to sharp and rude, especially when played loud over an hifi-system.
Most people are used to hear music that was processed in the studio to make it sound likeable and to hurt nobodys feelings. :)
About the "old greats", they borrowed a melody or made cover versions of popular songs of that time.
I bet they had alot of fun to convert their favourite song just to hear how it would sound like on the sid chip.
I think thats far away from stealing. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
the Great Old Ones who lived ages before there were any men, and who came to the young world out of the sky. Those Old Ones were gone now, inside the earth and under the sea; but their dead bodies had told their secrets in dreams to the first men, who formed a cult which had never died. |
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PAL
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 269 |
Stealing or borrowing, well it is the same... really... it is like alot of us graphic artist replicating images that do appeal to us... we could paint our own and go for that or we can work with images and elements that are done by others and alter them or use them in our own original artwork. that is life and that is the way the world turns around... it would be stupid to do all from start and all original in let us say an image or a song that is to be something that were shown in the past and people know what is... example... I once did my own version of a boris valeio image, it is a different image but the character is the same as in the original eather way one look at it. I did a great job on that and it was horrible amount of hours into my image to make it shine on the c64... I think that it is cool and my image now... but I always know where it came from and most that see it does so to... if you want to make a bowie song on the c64, something we have heard in the last crest demo... it would just be plain silly to not be abit true to the original... to be true to the original is actually what makes it great on the c64...(togehter with the incredible cool and in my mind improved bass and beat) if one had alter much here and there it would be something almost there and worse because of it, strange maybe to the ones knowing the original, and to the ones not knowing I guess they would as we did in the past be abit let down when we got to know where it was taken from and just altered some... I do not know totally here but that is my thoughts..
Then you have the last one from the shape demo that in my ears are not a replica, it is my friend geirs song, and that is cool too... very cool indeed and almost more worthy in a way. but still it is about the final result beeing good... if it is it gets away with alot to me.
About my earlier posts, well there is a reason why sid tunes is not the best known instrumental or digital music in the world, it is because the sid chip is awful to the untrained ear in most cases. some just love it right away and sees the quality in the unpolished soundaries or tones(hey I think those people are called the sceners?)... but really... sound quality is not state of the art and has never been as we all know, but on the otherhand it just might be as it is different. Different in this fashin like the c64 is hard to sell to the masses. When we, alot of us, fell in love with the machine in the 80s it were other reasons that got us to listen to it and get used to the universe and the boundries of the machine. It were something different and other than putting on an album or listening to mtv and so on. And it were peak technology for a home computer, something totally new and interesting, the ultimate toy.
I love graphics and music and art and demos and games on the c64, they are for me the best still today. I get more from them... that is just how I am today and I guess my childhood and teen years just molded me that way.
PAL
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NecroPolo
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 231 |
Quote: That is a thing I can not understand.
Who can anybody DON´T like the wonderful sound of the sidchip?
The sound is like candy for the ears. so sweet sound...
How someone can hate metal? Or, techno? People just like that ;)
In case of SID chip, it's quite a special case. The pure sound is quite incompatible with non-C64 people.
- If you release a SID that had weeks / months of hard work, has a flawless arrangement, great musical content care of detail and it's rather a piece of art than a piece of music: non-C64 people will BEG for you to turn it off.
- if you sample some parts and add some overly typical, deadly boring and stupid electro beats in 10 minutes and use arrangement that all the 10.000.000.000.000.000.000 mindless dance poooop songs have, people will say "WOW what wonderful analogue synth music, did you use some cool vintage synth for that? WOW cool rhythm. WOW cool music."
- if you add some sexy chick, stoopid lyrics and a good lawyer to the production pack: you're called Timbaland, earn millions and therefore don't give a crap of what the remaining C64 people think. All you have to do is to count the money, totally blow Chris Cornell albums sometimes and live a happy life. |
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MAC
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 40 |
Quite some text you wrote there PAL, but i'm not sure if i really got your point.
Well, there is a difference when a musician in the 80s takes, say the chorus from a pop song and put it in his sid for game xyz or nowadays some guy takes a sample from an old game and makes it a huge hit, earns a lot of money and gets known.
The perfect example for stealing is what Timbaland has done, to take a whole ready-made piece of music that nobody knows, from what he thinks nobody would care about, build some shit around it, giving no credits, thereby claims it is from him.
I myself prefer original artworks too, but i surely appreciate a good sid-cover version of a song i like.
Same with a pic, as long it's not wired. This is not stealing!
Its all about the act to reproduce this particular tune/pic on the C64 as close to the original as possible and maybe also give some spice from you to it.
In the 80s it was something special to hear a familiar melody playing from the computer, the same like when the computer talked, maybe thats the reason why they often reproduced known melodies.
But i feel that this discussion is going nowhere anyway... |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11101 |
Quote:Same with a pic, as long it's not wired. This is not stealing!
how does the way you are stealing things make stealing not stealing ? are you saying "wiring" is more stealing than 80s style transfering with a grid? |
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MAC
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 40 |
I just say that i wouldn't consider it stealing when someone converts a photo or whatever by setting every single pixel by hand in a paint program instead of letting it convert by some pc program. That's obvious. |
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rc55
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2008
Posts: 4 |
Hi, I'm rc55. I organise the UK Demoscene party "Sundown" which some of you may have heard of, and recently I met Frankmusik at a festival and he seemed like a pretty nice chap.
I have subsequently become friends with him on Facebook and we have exchanged a few messages - if anyone does want to give him a nudge, I don't mind sending him a message directly on their behalf.
I haven't had time to read through this entire thread, but I'm just throwing it out there... |
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Soren
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547 |
rc55: private message sent :-) |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Let's sample from Timbaland's new cd, and put on some stomping crappy non filtered 1983 sid drums and waveform 51 bass! |
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null
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 645 |
Quote: Let's sample from Timbaland's new cd, and put on some stomping crappy non filtered 1983 sid drums and waveform 51 bass!
or just show him who's more grown up by not doing the thing to him that you don't want to happen to you.
------------------------------------
http://zomgwtfbbq.info |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 638 |
or just ... hmm, I dunno. |
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rc55
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2008
Posts: 4 |
OK, last night I spoke with Frankmusik and Jeff.
Frankmusik said he's really sorry this situation came about and absolutely wants to address this. From what I gather he has agreed terms with Jeff to resolve his situation but I'm not sure how it is with PFK.
I think basically he downloaded the SID Collection (probably HVSC) and assumed that because it was available for free that it might have been public domain / royalty free; a reasonable assumption considering the nature of the demoscene, which is somewhat chaotic in regards to copyright. Not knowing the specifics of his experience (he could be using any player which wouldn't display metadata), I cannot comment on how the oversight came about, but nonetheless it wasn't intentional to do wrong by anyone.
I'm still trying to get hold of PFK, I have e-mailed him at the address on CSDB and tried to add him on Facebook.
I have to state that Frankmusik is a really nice guy and was absolutely dedicated to sorting this out and wants to restore good favour with people involved. He openly admits that although he loves the music we make and the charismatic sounds of the SID - he is totally unaware of the scene behind it and would like to sort things out.
If anyone is in touch with PFK directly, please message me. |
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
This explanation and attempt to set things right is good enough for me. The best of luck to Frankmusik.
It's fun to hear that non-scene related people download HVSC to listen through all the gems in it.
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booker
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 333 |
This is good.
See Jeff? Told ya, you do 8bit == all chicks are yours. Look at them in the background of Frank's video! :) |
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Soren
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547 |
I totally agree with Dane.
Booker: hmm.. I see no chicks yet :-/ |
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fade
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 290 |
that's due to the fact one of them blindfolded you
just be careful tho, i heard one of them has a drill with a big wobbly thing on the end :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11101 |
Quote:I think basically he downloaded the SID Collection (probably HVSC) and assumed that because it was available for free that it might have been public domain / royalty free; a reasonable assumption considering the nature of the demoscene, which is somewhat chaotic in regards to copyright.
sorry, but... what? reasonable? chaotic copyright? anyone who creates something automatically owns the copyright to his creation. end of story. you cant assume anything is public domain or royalty free unless it is explicitly stated that it is the case. and as an active musician he should damn well know this.
(and the fact that in the demoscene itself few people actually care, and many have ripped stuff from others too, is totally irrelevant - i guess thats what you mean by "chaotic")
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rc55
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2008
Posts: 4 |
Groepaz: You are correct technically, but the reality of most sampling is far more blurry - it all depends on how heavily you want to maintain a stance (remix culture vs. rights assertion etc.). It will continue to be a cause of debate for many years to come, no doubt.
I think for the moment I'd like to be pragmatic and make sure that the original musicians are credited and compensated satisfactorily so we can hope to move forward to make this a positive situation for all involved. |
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NecroPolo
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 231 |
Quote: Let's sample from Timbaland's new cd, and put on some stomping crappy non filtered 1983 sid drums and waveform 51 bass!
His lawyer would sue the hell out of you... :) |
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booker
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 333 |
On the other hand, I'm wondering how many SID musicans actually ever asked the originall authors of SID convertions they did for any kind of permission.
For ie. I've asked none :-| shame
Jeff: no video, no chicks. Make a video! ;-) |
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Soren
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547 |
Booker: But I need chicks for a video! ;-) |
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NecroPolo
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 231 |
Quote: Booker: But I need chicks for a video! ;-)
JSL can make you some piccy chicks in no time I guess ;) |
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PAL
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 269 |
Jeff: I would love to dress up like a chick and be one of many stars in your video... WOW... that is a feature I really would find different... ha ha something else... If we get the best flesh of the scene to pose too it will be really memroable this one... maybe vanja can be the spesial surprise at the end of the video? all of us revealing our gourgeus computer bodies and then she reveils too... and it is the real macoy... ha ha... would be sexy in a good way... ha ha...
Your PAL
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Tim
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: |
hmm.. i'll put my money on JSL's graphics rather then see that ;) |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
http://www.enfant-terrible.nl/enfantX.htm
They take, they must pay. Now sue his ass and walk laughing down to your bank! :D |
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Sander
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 487 |
Quote: http://www.enfant-terrible.nl/enfantX.htm
They take, they must pay. Now sue his ass and walk laughing down to your bank! :D
http://chipflip.wordpress.com/2009/08/24/another-sampling-contr..
'We' kinda came to an agreement with the label. This is a result of it. |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1055 |
Damn, he sounds like a bad copy of Gary Numan.
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da Blondie
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: |
Quoting Groepazchaotic copyright? anyone who creates something automatically owns the copyright to his creation. end of story.
Well, although certainly not chaotic, the situation is definitely muddy.
Take HVSC, for example: while I am aware that they got express permission from some composers I am pretty sure that they do not have proper permissions for distributing much of the collection (that's only to be expected, given how the rights of many old games seems to be in Limbo). In the case of the scene musicians you could argue that they gave their permission implicitly or something like that (there's your chaotic state) but this certainly does not hold for commercially released stuff and HVSC certainly breaks copyright in many cases. Still, everybody is cool and no legal action is taken against HVSC - which is somewhat suprising, because when it comes to complete games (which have absolutely the same copyright protection as musics) the situation is wastly different, see lemon64 that carries only a few games which they are expressly licensed to distribute.
So yeah, while the legal basis is as clear as it is, the actual practice tends to ignore the law to a degree and there's some uncertainnes what is considered to be OK and what's not.
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11101 |
Quote:So yeah, while the legal basis is as clear as it is, the actual practice tends to ignore the law to a degree and there's some uncertainnes what is considered to be OK and what's not.
nonsense. there is nothing uncertain about hvsc beeing illegal. |
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da Blondie
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: |
Oh, please.
Yes, the legal situation is clear.
BUT: No, the legal situation in itself does not clearly define with what can one get away (or even what is considered ethical) - that would be the gist of my post.
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Angel of Death
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 210 |
As far as I know copyright laws Groepaz is right. They clearly state distribution of the whole or part of a software-program as being illegal. That means in any form. A lot of people think that it is okay as long as you do not gain anything of it. (financially or otherwise)
Funny thing is: Recording a SID tune does not apply to these specific laws as it is regarded as sampling. But distribution remains distribution. And since HVSC contains exact copies of parts the sources of the music there are even, in some parts of the world, some copyright laws active concerning the code itself.
There used to be something called: "the two-second rule" (when a sample was shorter than 2 secs. it was more or less free.)
That was negated in Europe when the Art of Noise managed to delay the releasing of the Prodigy album the fat of the land for use of a shout and a snare-drum lasting a total of .8 seconds...
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goto80
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 138 |
another one...
Wermut has sampled Mindflow's song for the C64-demo Timewaster. Have a listen: http://www.enfant-terrible.nl/mp3/EnfantX_B.mp3
more here: http://wp.me/p8G37-aK |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11101 |
Quote:There used to be something called: "the two-second rule"
thats a myth, such rule never existed :) |
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PAL
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 269 |
I am agraphic designer and deals with much variated artists as I hire some to freelance for me... over the last 20 years I have got to know what holds in artworcs, graphic design or the like... when andy warhol created alot of his work, lots of the elements were from photos and layouts and designs that belong to others, but he and lots in the ad and art ereas do the same... they alter or put them in a contex where it is different and something that ment different in mood and all... they create works that make their thoughts shine... How can one create new things without looking at the past, really? inspiration and tools or bits of art comes in alot of shapes... this is something that will never be solved... that is the truth about these issues...
Let us say that the sid artist were inspired by a beat or sound, or composings... and created something based on this... who is to blame him... when artists outside the scene do the same it is wrong? I can not truly grasp that even it is a sample put into another contex... but myself would credit or pay the ones where I got the inspiration or part from... In the music industry I really think this is the rule too... I mean, if you sample james brown you have to pay... but if you sample geir tjelta one should also pay...
Never ending story... I feel to say yes but then I say no... butthen again I say yes and so on... |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11101 |
its a neverending story indeed ...
and from a sceners point of view, i would credit - but certainly not pay (or even ask) :) then again i wouldnt care if the resulting product would be considered illegal or not either =)
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PAL
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 269 |
My point too... I think you said it right there...
If it were for a nonprofit demo or the like I could only credit for inspiration or the use if I were polite and had the respect for the original in a way, and maybe I am not, because I am a scener in that contex, and everything goes as it is nonprofit and just for fun... the element of stealing and use it to create something good or cool or emotional is essence here, and not the profit other than scene cred or the like... but if it were a professional job, like music artist, they try to live from what they create, I think it is different... Then one should pay! |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11101 |
yes of course. commercial exploitation is a totally different matter. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11101 |
http://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=382918#382918
? |
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Kristian
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 126 |
Is that guy serious? |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
Quote: http://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=382918#382918
?
naughty naughty
bitchy bithcy
sexy sexy
I love this hit :) |
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Intensity
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 337 |
For the case anyone of you fucks should say I have stolen a sid...
Johannes Bjerregaard gave me permission to cover his SID "Sweet" and to use it commercially, and I am right now finishing a contract with Wacek (Adam Waclawski) for a remix of his tune "Epilogue".
But what if Johannes Bjerregaard says "WTF, your remix became a so-called HIT, I want your damn money, mustard"? If you all talk about permissions from SID composers, please advice me what to do exactly, do you think i should sign a contract with JB aswell, like i have done or will do with wacek?
Personally I don't think an email from the remixed SID composer suffices... |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Intensity: simple, you make an agreement with the artist, how much royalties he is to get from sales. |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Arman stole a sid! |
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NecroPolo
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 231 |
Quote: For the case anyone of you fucks should say I have stolen a sid...
Johannes Bjerregaard gave me permission to cover his SID "Sweet" and to use it commercially, and I am right now finishing a contract with Wacek (Adam Waclawski) for a remix of his tune "Epilogue".
But what if Johannes Bjerregaard says "WTF, your remix became a so-called HIT, I want your damn money, mustard"? If you all talk about permissions from SID composers, please advice me what to do exactly, do you think i should sign a contract with JB aswell, like i have done or will do with wacek?
Personally I don't think an email from the remixed SID composer suffices...
Concerning commercial releases, contact Chris Abbott of C64audio.com - if he can license the SID of your remixing choice, the composer gets his portion for sure - end of trouble, for both sides of the case. |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Well, not stolen that I can hear, but reminds of C64..
Apart from the obvious arps, listen at 2:20+
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He35xO1vIHs |
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onebitman
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 47 |
doesnt this whistled melody (besides all the awfullness that surrounds it) sound alot like ghosts n goblins? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOfttSwtHm4 |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 638 |
Most scandalous!!112 |
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j0x
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 215 |
Quote: Most scandalous!!112
What's worse is that Klaus Wunderlich stole it from Ghosts'n'Goblins back in 1975.
Even more outrageous: Chopin stole the intro progression from Ghosts'n'Goblins back in the mid-19th century!
The nerve of some people!
|
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booker
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 333 |
Quote: doesnt this whistled melody (besides all the awfullness that surrounds it) sound alot like ghosts n goblins? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOfttSwtHm4
Perchaps he was playing to much of G'n'G as a kid :)
Problem is though, if you listen to too much of the music you really like, tehn at some point you'll come up with arragements you believe to be yours, but they will be acutally someone else's job, fitted in your tune in various ways :) |
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Devia
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 401 |
and on the other hand, you can play so much around with your own ideas that they become so familiar to you that you get convinced that someone else made it first... that's even suckier |
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NecroPolo
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 231 |
Quote: What's worse is that Klaus Wunderlich stole it from Ghosts'n'Goblins back in 1975.
Even more outrageous: Chopin stole the intro progression from Ghosts'n'Goblins back in the mid-19th century!
The nerve of some people!
Not to mention AAAARGH, the famous paleolith musician, who made an 1:1 steal from Ghosts'n'Goblins in his mega-hit, 'GWARGH' (Here comes the mammooth) and an even more obvious steal, the song that was stolen by Rob Hubbard's 'One Man and his Droid' /inspired by Jarre/, called 'GWARGH' (Little itchy insects that I found in my tapir fur on a sunny sunday afternoon while on a 'running before a tiger' mission), cca 123950 BC. |
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booker
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 333 |
Quote: and on the other hand, you can play so much around with your own ideas that they become so familiar to you that you get convinced that someone else made it first... that's even suckier
:-D |
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hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474 |
I don't think I have seen Las Palmas being mentioned
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74wkZwU_3Fw |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
This is not a real band :d
Dont tell me this has sold any copies :D |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1289 |
lol, strip poker hh. \o/ |
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goto80
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 138 |
hlwmn: did they sample/cover some c64 music there?
but monotrona released a couple of albums with other people's C64 tunes which she sang on. check this out! great! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1DSdXNmQTQ |
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hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474 |
goto80, I am surprised that you of all people would have to ask.. http://www.c64.org/HVSC/GAMES/S-Z/Strip_Poker_PSID.sid
Took me a while to recognize the game. I knew I had heard it as a kid but I somehow thought that it was from some puzzle game or boulder dash clone, and I couldn't understand why I was getting some kind of filthy vibe from the tune.
|
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3132 |
c64.org still carries the _PSID version? They must be still at HVSC#49, about time to sync =) |
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Matt
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 589 |
Quote: hlwmn: did they sample/cover some c64 music there?
but monotrona released a couple of albums with other people's C64 tunes which she sang on. check this out! great! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1DSdXNmQTQ
wahahaha that made my day!! |
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Matt
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 589 |
that woman is hilaric!
check out this one :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CNLSBIaQ7M&NR=1
tripple lol |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 638 |
LOL! |
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dalezy
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 475 |
anyone else notices how much of a contemporary "chiptune"-act that one is? time probably didn't change at all! |
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dalezy
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 475 |
edit: i obviously posted a dupe :D
still, i wonder if there was much money involved? =) |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
Check track 1/2 on this one:
http://www.juno.co.uk/products/Dirty-Money/371328-01/ |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Never heard this before, perhaps he has made it on hardsid ?
it just sounds made to me, not sampled. because the shitty song actually fits to the sid stuff. |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
Ok, I thought I recognized it from somewhere... |
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hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474 |
http://www.jahtari.org/music/JTR07.htm
Quote:
Probably the biggest Jahtari floor fave during recent live gigs the riddim is originally based
on a Commodore C64 SID-file from 1990 by Swedish chip rocker Johan Danielsson, aka. JLD.
Johan, then a member of the C64-demo group Warriors Of The Wasteland, created the tune
at the age of 15. Finally this forgotten gem is put into hyperdrive mode and shot into the
Star Destroyer class.
|
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Hmm, its not in HVSC.
Well, then let's hope that he arranged something with JDL.. |
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 321 |
Is it so fucking hard to create your OWN music for god's sake?
I'm so tired of assholes sampling our SID music and using it in their mega crap, ultra bullshit youtube/myspace releases..
where on earth do these fucking lamers come from????
If you get permission from the original SID author
then that's a different story altogether. |
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tempest
Registered: Jun 2005
Posts: 25 |
Monotrona MP3s
For fans only |
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Death Merchant
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 13 |
Quoting tempestMonotrona MP3s
For fans only
I am an enormous Jodie McKhan/Bathazar/Mechanic AKA Monotrona fan. She used to live in Chicago in the 90s and was a member/founder of a couple brilliant experimental/no-wave bands (Math, Duotron). When she started the Monotrona project, I immediately recognized the SID sounds. The first record mixes them effectively with odd drumming and circuit-bent sounds while the second record is essentially karaoke over well-known SID tunes...brilliantly, I might add. It's not your usual no-talent hipster recycling bullshit. But, if I remember right, not much credit was attributed to the creators of the original tracks (I could be wrong, I haven't seen the cover in years).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1DSdXNmQTQ
(i'm actually dancing in the background in this clip)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CNLSBIaQ7M
also, it amuses me to see a link to the To Live & Shave in LA blog on here (even if it's just an image).
|
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11101 |
Quote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1DSdXNmQTQ
(i'm actually dancing in the background in this clip)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CNLSBIaQ7M
"It's not your usual no-talent hipster recycling bullshit."
wow. thanks for telling. for some reason i immediatly thought just that when seeing those clips, and i couldnt help myself but laugh. hard =P |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 885 |
Quote: Quoting tempestMonotrona MP3s
For fans only
I am an enormous Jodie McKhan/Bathazar/Mechanic AKA Monotrona fan. She used to live in Chicago in the 90s and was a member/founder of a couple brilliant experimental/no-wave bands (Math, Duotron). When she started the Monotrona project, I immediately recognized the SID sounds. The first record mixes them effectively with odd drumming and circuit-bent sounds while the second record is essentially karaoke over well-known SID tunes...brilliantly, I might add. It's not your usual no-talent hipster recycling bullshit. But, if I remember right, not much credit was attributed to the creators of the original tracks (I could be wrong, I haven't seen the cover in years).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1DSdXNmQTQ
(i'm actually dancing in the background in this clip)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CNLSBIaQ7M
also, it amuses me to see a link to the To Live & Shave in LA blog on here (even if it's just an image).
Now I _really_ want to know which one you are, are you the guy doing the robot or the one with the heart on his chest? :D |
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Death Merchant
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 13 |
Quoting GroepazQuote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1DSdXNmQTQ
(i'm actually dancing in the background in this clip)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CNLSBIaQ7M
"It's not your usual no-talent hipster recycling bullshit."
wow. thanks for telling. for some reason i immediatly thought just that when seeing those clips, and i couldnt help myself but laugh. hard =P
I'll concede to a certain degree. While I don't think this direction of hers is as original and innovative as her earlier bands, it still revels in the absurd...whereas the current crop of people who use/rip SID sounds are all about retro/partying/snorting coke. I'm a little biased since I am familiar with her earlier groups. When she presented this work, it was 1997/1998 and I was excited to see anyone recognizing SID music even if it was a form of karaoke. |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
what a humongous piece of crap! (monotrona music) |
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Tim
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: |
haha.. IÂ’ll second that opinion :)
|
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Angel of Death
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 210 |
@Death Merchant
"It's not your usual no-talent hipster recycling bullshit."
I produced and listened to a lot of avant-garde music over the years but this, seriously, is not very good.
But that still remains a question of taste.
Just promise me one thing, please: If you are the guy in the background bobbing around in the leotard...never, ever tell me. Say you are one of the black guys walking around looking uncomfortable, please! |
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FATFrost
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 211 |
Quote: Quote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1DSdXNmQTQ
(i'm actually dancing in the background in this clip)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CNLSBIaQ7M
"It's not your usual no-talent hipster recycling bullshit."
wow. thanks for telling. for some reason i immediatly thought just that when seeing those clips, and i couldnt help myself but laugh. hard =P
Haha! that first video looks like 'Back in Time live'!!!!! ;) |
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Death Merchant
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 13 |
Quote: @Death Merchant
"It's not your usual no-talent hipster recycling bullshit."
I produced and listened to a lot of avant-garde music over the years but this, seriously, is not very good.
But that still remains a question of taste.
Just promise me one thing, please: If you are the guy in the background bobbing around in the leotard...never, ever tell me. Say you are one of the black guys walking around looking uncomfortable, please!
I would call it Avant-Retard. http://www.last.fm/group/Avant-Retard
oh yes! that is me in the blue leotard! but I usually look like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vf9wyKoyHg
which might not be much better. The SID theme to Mastertronic's Captive is a big influence.
|
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Angel of Death
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 210 |
Now. That is a lot better and more original. (not being sarcastic)
Sort of Genesis 1974 does Captain beefheart. Love it!
But I'm sorry. Whatever I'm trying to portrait, I would never wear hotpants and/or angelwings on stage. (you can quote me on that and put it on my grave-stone :))
And somehow I think that my manly bits will never comply with wearing a leotard.
However, keep doing what's fine for you. Just remember the audience here. ;) |
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FATFrost
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 211 |
i'm not sure if this has been posted before, but http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXwlYEhgvs4&feature=related
hmmm, Jeroen Tel 'Rubicon' tune. |
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Isildur
Registered: Sep 2006
Posts: 274 |
Oh, come on! Why not topless??? |
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FATFrost
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 211 |
maybe you should pixel one for us? ;) |
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Motion
Account closed
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 69 |
Yes DrunkedFrost, it has been mentioned before and I believe he had permission to use this sid. Here's a better video, too!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cWL89fjfUU |
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TWW
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 541 |
OCN (tv channel) has a commercial for some South Korean shit and it features the Bubble Bubble theme (no shit). It does not contain SID music but it uses some chicks (sounding like they are 10 years old) and some synth stuff to reproduce Boubble Boubble (And it's a 100% same not just some parts).
I can't tell you what the commercial is for coz it's all in Korean and so is the text.
edit: Put correct TV-Channel :) |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
Dirty Money by Jahtari, anyone already heard this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OjILlvC7Ho |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1289 |
Quote: Dirty Money by Jahtari, anyone already heard this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OjILlvC7Ho
yay for c-64 dub \o/ |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
This mail landed at my place:
-
Hi there,
Normally I'm not a big fan of MTV but today while having a breakfast just kept it open for a while and noticed this song. I noticed something familiar from the background of the music..
Here is ASL's work
/C64Music/MUSICIANS/A/ASL/Eiger_Greets_Part.sid
Here is the video of the suspect, Taio Cruz's Break Your Heart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFG6AoEScVE
Dunno, maybe it's just a small loop or common stuff... It directly hit me because as far as I remember originally I had ripped this song and I like it very much...
Regards,
WiiCrazy / I.R.on
|
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Could be standard progression... could be a steal.. i have no way to be sure :D |
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Total Chaos
Registered: Mar 2006
Posts: 74 |
my ears are bleeding |
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The MeatBall
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 363 |
Someone pointed me to a Norwegian "artist" called "Fattern" that released an album in 2006, that is essentially old 8-bit tunes with crap lyrics on top. The album is on Spotify for those that want to listen.
Don't know if any of them are C64 SIDs or Nintendo gamesounds or whatever, but I wouldn't be surprised if this was just ripped and not checked the rights etc.. |
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Kaze
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2007
Posts: 8 |
Quote: This mail landed at my place:
-
Hi there,
Normally I'm not a big fan of MTV but today while having a breakfast just kept it open for a while and noticed this song. I noticed something familiar from the background of the music..
Here is ASL's work
/C64Music/MUSICIANS/A/ASL/Eiger_Greets_Part.sid
Here is the video of the suspect, Taio Cruz's Break Your Heart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFG6AoEScVE
Dunno, maybe it's just a small loop or common stuff... It directly hit me because as far as I remember originally I had ripped this song and I like it very much...
Regards,
WiiCrazy / I.R.on
Both the arpeggio and the bass is exactly the same. ;-) |
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DRAX
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 224 |
This one came to my mind:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwiuXevi9FE
Those chords are pretty standard!
Am,f,c,g |
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DRAX
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 224 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B-eJv_BVoA
These people clearly stole the chord progression ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG1e4hHrsSI
and this! OMG! |
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DRAX
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 224 |
and not to forget this old hit ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZEO1Lug25s
and of course this hit ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqFLXayD6e8&feature=fvst
|
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KM
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2008
Posts: 2 |
Hmmm, looks like this never ends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be7O4m9rOZE |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
DRAX: unless you can post some sids that sound the same, your videos are pretty 'standard' :D |
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DRAX
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 224 |
I am pretty sure I could find some sids that uses the same chord progressions ;) |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
All talk and no action :D |
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DRAX
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 224 |
From my memory... Deflektor by Daglish?? |
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GT
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 308 |
Or check out this. LOL
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/19/the-only-four-chords-n.. |
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GT
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 308 |
It's about composing a strong melody upon the chords. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11101 |
thats awesome geir.... hahaha |
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Devia
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 401 |
heh.. pretty nice performance |
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TWW
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 541 |
Good Link Geir. Now I know the secret of becomming artistic :) (Phat chance!) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
now fuck me, but aint this acidjazzed evening ? :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sarB0ni3B2Y |
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null
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 645 |
it does seem similar.
------------------------------------
http://zomgwtfbbq.info |
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Cresh
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 354 |
Doesn't "Genesis" from Pendulum's new album (1st track) sound sid-like? ;)
http://www.pendulum.com/ |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Genesis is using the Last Ninja 2 arpeggio sound that is in the Nexus 2 SID VST. I recognize it right away. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11101 |
"now fuck me, but aint this acidjazzed evening ? :D"
LOL. indeed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqX7WX6jFdw ... recorded 1982. LOLOLOLOLOL |
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Cresh
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 354 |
I am quite sure there some SID sounds in Ital Tek's new LP
* Artists: Ital Tek
* Title: Midnight Colour
http://planet.mu/discography/ZIQ272
|
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
Years ago I saw an ad on german TV. It was about Magix Music Maker and in the background played PRI's Azzdjazz, the original SID, but somehow boosted soundwise. I asked the guys behind Magix if they could search their archives for the ad and sent them the mp3ed sid by PRI. I got a friendly, but unsuccessful reply ("very interesting story. I get back to you if legal issues don't interfere... yadda yadda"), but never heard of them again. PRI himself assured me that it's an original composition. Does anybody else remember that? |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
this is not stolen, but its completely new
http://soundcloud.com/knatter/bjorn-fogelberg-multicolor-love
the lead is done by a sidstation |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
also no steal, a track by me
http://soundcloud.com/sidwave/dream-of-the-80s-preview |
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null
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 645 |
Then how are those related to this thread?
------------------------------------
http://zomgwtfbbq.info |
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Soren
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547 |
word... unless he is aiming at being known as thief ;-) |
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dalezy
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 475 |
help me out right here. even if the chances are that the original composer is posting stuff as sinsid there, i just can't make up the original name of the tune and where it was used first. |
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dalezy
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 475 |
case (almost) solved, thanks to ian coog. that tune was originally done by kasmo: Dubstep Experience
EDIT: to be more precise, it IS kasmo's tune - how sinsid's credits appear in relation to that tune, is a thing that only sinsid would be able to answer. |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3132 |
also reported this
Please help identify all the others, I'm pretty sure they're all simple recordings from known sids randomly taken off HVSC =) |
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dalezy
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 475 |
http://www.lastfm.de/music/SinSID
there's quite some agemixer- and PRI-work, in case my memory servers right. 3 of the covers up there seem to be covers done by PRI. |
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dalezy
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 475 |
"prepare to snow" is done by drax, the original name is "star flake".
sinsid seems to be the new HtheB, when it comes to renaming titles and releasing them as his own. |
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Cresh
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 354 |
Robyn - Hang With Me official video
http://vimeo.com/13643546
with Sid Station. :)
Yesterday I saw Robyn live. Nice gig. |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
http://8bc.org/music/sinsid/Dust+Do+It+(Commodore64+D'n'B)/
This is Randy's Overdrive with a tiny bit of post processing (bass filtered out).
|
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
http://8bc.org/music/sinsid/Full+Moon+(Commodore64)/
Here we have Eco's X-Ray. Someone report this idiot, I can't be arsed to create an account. |
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booker
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 333 |
Quoting GeirOr check out this. LOL
And that's frequently stolen from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfNpL2p0xm8 :)) |
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booker
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 333 |
Steppe like it will change anything :) but I've posted links to original tunes in SinSID 8bc.org comments. |
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JLD
Registered: Dec 2010
Posts: 4 |
Quote: Hmm, its not in HVSC.
Well, then let's hope that he arranged something with JDL..
Hi, my first post in this forum.
I was searching the internet when I found this post about "Dirty Money - Soom T & Disrupt". The original sid was composed by me in 1990. It is called Reggae2.sid and can be found in HVSC. \MUSICANS\J\JLD\REGGAE2.sid
For about 1,5 years ago I got a mail from a guy namned Disrupt who owned a record label called Jahtari. He asked me for persmission to use my sid and release it on vinyl, Itunes and Beatport etc. Whatever profits come from it, we share 1/3. Me, Singer and the producer.
I was stuned. My old crappy tune made when I was 15 years old was about to be released on vinyl. I agreed with Jahtari and the vinyl was released.
It has now been a year since the release of Soom T - Dirty Money and I know that they have sold quit good. The only thing is that I haven't seen any money at all, at first I didn't care about it. I only thought it was cool that the tune was used. Then about a week ago I found another version of my tune. It was a remix of Dirty Money made by a dj called An-ten-nea. He's remix has been in first place on top 100 download on Beatport 2 weeks in a row. I don't know how much money it could be worth but it got me thinking.
I searched the internet a little bit more, now on the remix version. Then I found out that the remix is also in a BIG facebook game called Nightclub City with 5 miljon active users in a month.
So finnaly... I am glad that the tune got a new life and if I earn some money of it, it whould just be a bonus for me.
Cheers!
Johan Danielsson aka JLD
My Facebook page - http://listn.to/JLD
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Heavy Stylus
Registered: Apr 2007
Posts: 61 |
Hmm. If I was you I'd get a laywer and take the fuckers to court.
As for the vinyl release, I doubt that hobby labels like jahtari make much if any real profit. A friend of mine is signed to a major indie label and he has to sell a shed load of discs before he sees a penny.
However, that remix of YOUR tune sounds like it has sold well as a download, and the fact it has been used in a facebook game without your permission makes me think that that you should be owed at least something.
Good luck with whatever you choose to do mate. |
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Yodelking
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 189 |
How about this one:
http://open.spotify.com/track/5EoerWNte4qDlZ11BHwGvX
Jingle (A Musical Interlewd) by George Michael.
This sounds like Wizball!! |
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encore
Registered: Aug 2010
Posts: 61 |
JLD: Are you a member of STIM? (http://www.stim.se) |
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JLD
Registered: Dec 2010
Posts: 4 |
Quote: JLD: Are you a member of STIM? (http://www.stim.se)
Nope, but I am a member of PRS. Same as stim but in england. Unfortunately the song is registred twice in PRS system and one of the registrations is not on me. I have tried to delete the faulty registration with no success.
PRS homepage is a bit tricky to deal with.
/Johan
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
Sounds as if this 8Bit Retro Music scene is a bunch of lousy wankers. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
http://grooveshark.com/#/s/Nowhere/2pgreE?src=5
The part starting around 3:00 sounds quite a lot like Delta. Or maybe it's just my imagination. |
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goto80
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 138 |
A bit similar yes. But of course, Delta is stolen from Philip Glass anyway :) |
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 321 |
Rough: Agreed. The "8Bit Retro Music scene" are a bunch of lousy wankers alright. I would say what I really feel about the situation but it would contain way too much foul language ;)
I'll try and keep it clean.. There are many of these 'retro-lamers' out there ripping off the scenes (amiga/c64/consoles), due to either ignorance or just greed, they think it's ok to rip sceners off because they think it's public domain. I know of a couple of "musicians" (yeah right..) here in Australia who constantly steal from the c64/Amiga and consoles because they truly believe their fans/audience will never know where they stole their samples from.
I've successfully had a couple of their videos pulled off of youtube after alerting google to copyright infringements and due to that, I've made these so-called "musicians" extremely mad as they spent loads of money making them. Hahaha! These retro-lamers really need to lift their game and start writing original works unless they want to be sued, shamed and discredited as the frauds that they really are. |
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Angel of Death
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 210 |
@ jailbird.
I am not convinced that they will hit a big one with this track. But kudos to the composer as his take on the melody resembles the original koyanisqaatsi by Philip Glass a lot more than rob hubbards version in Delta. :) |
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Angel of Death
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 210 |
@adam.
I strongly protest against all foul language! ;)
But in a sense i agree. I would like to see people crying wolf in this thread to do their homework a little better... |
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 321 |
Angel Of Death: Well 'crying wolf'? Maybe.. But people who've posted are just trying to look out for us sceners. :))
It's probably best to 'cry wolf' than to say nothing at all because it gives people a chance to listen and see for themselves. There's many of us who can spot a ripped off module or SID tune, no matter how small the rip is, from 'a million miles away'. ;)
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Angel of Death
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 210 |
Okay, okay. Maybe an unfortunate choice of words and you are probably right.
But that doesn't mean we won't give 'em hell when they make an 'accusation' that makes no sense or turns out to be plainly false.:)
This is a forum after all. ;) |
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goto80
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 138 |
@adam: what are these things you got taken off youtube? |
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 321 |
Quote: @adam: what are these things you got taken off youtube?
The shameless theft of Amiga modules being passed off as 'original works'. |
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Jon
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 247 |
I've always wondered about this one since I first heard it in a club back in the '90s. The baseline seems very familiar, but I've never had an accurate ear for music:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROVkXEBeQWE
It has always sounded like Huelsbeck to me.
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 321 |
Quoting JonI've always wondered about this one since I first heard it in a club back in the '90s. The baseline seems very familiar, but I've never had an accurate ear for music.. It has always sounded like Huelsbeck to me.
Nice one, Jon! :) Yes, The bassline is very similar to "The Great Giana Sisters" intro music. Not exactly the same, but it's bloody close to it that's for sure!! :D
Paperboy - His handle may be a hint perhaps to gaming? :D Hmm.. Interesting. I can't say I remember hearing this song before tonight, nor do I know anything about the artist 'Paperboy'. Anyway, its a good track. Maybe I think it's good because it reminds me of Giana Sisters? Lol! :D |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Quote: A bit similar yes. But of course, Delta is stolen from Philip Glass anyway :)
its completely not
stop this BS at once!
its inspiration.
some feelings of this, a few notes of that.
remove all hubbards own work in it, and what you got, 15 secs of tuneage from others ?
wake the fuck up
its an adaptation.
READ THE STIL and dont say shit!
inspiration and adaptation isnt covering or stealing, its life.
i learned to walk by doing what i saw my mom and dad do, so i ripped walking ?
stop all this BS.
real sid stealing, sue theirs ass into hell, the rest, stop this craptalk! please! :) |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
music is feelings
when more people have same feelings, thing will sond alike, because we are constructed the same all, but personaly perception decide how we express ourself.
i am product of all i heard, saw, and read, and experienced.
and thats it.
if i cover/rip anything, its subconssious, this is part of me, has become it. i cannot rip.
i am product of universe.
dont trademark feelings, we all have the same.
ok ?
:) |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
sorry the curve went under 0 again, its the last day.
numbers and music talk for itself, so no other words are nessecary, and so, the last day has ended. i am sorry goto80.
the last outbreak just wanted to be there.
lets moderate it: "music is feelings, we are all the same, we dont steal, we feel to be like others, is that a crime ?"
ofcourse, 1:1 steal, is wrong, and he burn in hell and i get 43 million, mwahahaha!
cheers! |
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Jon
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 247 |
You have transcended time and space.
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
I have to agree with Rambones, Delta is much better than the original Glass track which is just boring esoteric blib blib.
@Adam: What's the best source to download tracks of these 8 bit retro lamers. Quick to download and a list of its artists, I want to check them out. (not youtube of course) |
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 321 |
Quoting Rough @Adam: What's the best source to download tracks of these 8 bit retro lamers. Quick to download and a list of its artists, I want to check them out. (not youtube of course)
I can't remember the names of the songs (this was nearly two years ago) and I'd prefer not to mention the 'artists' as this will give them attention that they crave for. Sorry, Rough. |
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goto80
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 138 |
@rambones: ... i wasn't too serious with that remark, therefore the smiley. but otoh, if everything is a product of everything else then it's impossible to steal. but i digress, please continue with the thread! |
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 321 |
..reminds me of Timbaland's bizarre reasoning when he ripped off tempest and grg, which was 'everybody samples from everybody every day'.
I remember having to write some hiphop loops for a local rapper and he wanted the samples from a horror flick and I told him, 'Mate, you can't use those samples without the copyright holders permission. You'll get sued'. The response back from this rapper was exactly like Timbaland's and he added.. 'Besides, Who cares? I don't give a fuck and noone else will care either'. This attitude and reasoning to justify sampling large chunks of copyrighted audio in hiphop tracks is quite normal and prevalent through out the aussie hiphop scene. |
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goto80
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 138 |
Not that I'd consider this 'stealing' but can anyone identify where all the samples come from in this little thing? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9EqWCFGzZg |
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Yogibear
Registered: Aug 2003
Posts: 208 |
/MUSICIANS/H/Hubbard_Rob/Flash_Gordon.sid #1
/MUSICIANS/T/Tel_Jeroen/Turbo_Outrun.sid #1 (speech samples)
/MUSICIANS/G/Galway_Martin/Wizball.sid #1
3:12 bongos likely from:
/MUSICIANS/H/Hubbard_Rob/Tarzan.sid
or
/MUSICIANS/H/Hubbard_Rob/Flash_Gordon.sid #5
remixed I guess
3:42 maybe from:
/MUSICIANS/H/Hubbard_Rob/Flash_Gordon.sid #8
4:14 FG #1 again
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Queen bittin
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2011
Posts: 119 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sDYOmttnFo
aka http://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid&query=..
orginal file is a .mod but ripped song is about c64 found this out a late night when i was listning to the song on Spotify and found the .mod in my /modulez/ folder
:p |
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 321 |
Quoting bittinhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sDYOmttnFo
aka http://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid&query=..
orginal file is a .mod but ripped song is about c64 found this out a late night when i was listning to the song on Spotify and found the .mod in my /modulez/ folder
:p
Well spotted, Bittin! :D
I tried to verify if Osten was actually 'Optic/TRSI' via Osten af Mozzarella's Facebook page but everytime I post a message to try and verify this track, the posts end up deleted. If Osten isn't Optic then this track is one of most shameless rips I've seen in awhile and his video should be removed from Youtube. The original 4-channel module was written on the 19th of May, 1997.
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 321 |
This morning I received a reply from 'osten' verifying that he did rip off Optic/TRSI but claims he had no idea where the original tune came from. Here is his reply:
-------------------------
From: Fredrik Osten Af Engström
Hello! Im a rapper who got a beat from a friend who makes beats. Are you in to hiphopmusic? In hiphop you usually use samples to make beats. I dont know where my producers find their samples and thats really common in hiphop that rappers gets their beats. In the youtube credit i wrote down the producers name and just because i didnt know the guy from who he sampled it from i didnt write the real artist name!
Sincerly Osten af
-------------------------
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Queen bittin
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2011
Posts: 119 |
Quote: This morning I received a reply from 'osten' verifying that he did rip off Optic/TRSI but claims he had no idea where the original tune came from. Here is his reply:
-------------------------
From: Fredrik Osten Af Engström
Hello! Im a rapper who got a beat from a friend who makes beats. Are you in to hiphopmusic? In hiphop you usually use samples to make beats. I dont know where my producers find their samples and thats really common in hiphop that rappers gets their beats. In the youtube credit i wrote down the producers name and just because i didnt know the guy from who he sampled it from i didnt write the real artist name!
Sincerly Osten af
-------------------------
Producent: KayBeats and he used a sample from Optic/TRSI (may 1997)
:p good he atleast credited the right man |
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 321 |
Yeah. I asked Osten if he would consider giving credit to the original author and to my surprise, he said he would. Good bloke. :) |
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Warnock
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2007
Posts: 27 |
Jump up and down all you want. Music stealing is music stealing. Point blank. Even if you compose a tune from someone else's tune, it's stealing the original idea and/or concept. Call it the way you see it. I'm also guilty of this on a few occasions....and I'm not ashamed. If it's at all important, I gave the original creator/composer credit.
Warnock/Style [Musician]
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Warnock
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2007
Posts: 27 |
Jump up and down all you want. Music stealing is music stealing. Point blank. Even if you compose a tune from someone else's tune, it's stealing the original idea and/or concept. Call it the way you see it. I'm also guilty of this on a few occasions....and I'm not ashamed.
Warnock/Style [Musician]
P.S.- BTW, This artist sux. Must be a European artist. LOL
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FATFrost
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 211 |
The Game Ft Lil Wayne - Red Nation ... whittaker? |
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Yogibear
Registered: Aug 2003
Posts: 208 |
Yeah Lazy Jones. Zombie Nation also stole it in their "Kernkraft 400". Whittaker got 3000 old DM for that if I'm informed correctly. |
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chancer
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 342 |
Quote: Jump up and down all you want. Music stealing is music stealing. Point blank. Even if you compose a tune from someone else's tune, it's stealing the original idea and/or concept. Call it the way you see it. I'm also guilty of this on a few occasions....and I'm not ashamed.
Warnock/Style [Musician]
P.S.- BTW, This artist sux. Must be a European artist. LOL
and there are so many great SID musicians that I can name that were from the US?
I'm sure there are plenty of european artists who have platinum discs on their wall to take no notice of such throw away comments.
timbarip.. reps the US . nuff said. some "talent"
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
Egotronic - Exportschlager Leitkultur
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSp5C26Fz6A
Monty on the Run more or less is the complete tune, with just some voice and trash samples. No remix, no new instruments, plain Hubbard tune. Lame. |
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vortexion
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 3 |
There are Wizard of Wor effects in there too. |
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 321 |
Quoting RoughEgotronic - Exportschlager Leitkultur
shit://www.boobtube.com/watch?v=OSp5C26Fz6A
Monty on the Run more or less is the complete tune, with just some voice and trash samples. No remix, no new instruments, plain Hubbard tune. Lame.
Wow. Lame? far worse than lame, "Exportschlager Leitkultur" is fucking awful. |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odadWM5MFjY
Uses Zardax' Tune 7.sid as melody line. If only someone could direct me to a link to the original (supposedly by Mozart). |
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MC
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 71 |
Back in the days most of you got the game monty on the run just how? Not by buying it in a shop I bet...
Sure enough stealing someone elses work for commercial purpose is a little more unethical but stealing is stealing period. Why do we pretend to care now? In my opinion this is all a bit hypocrit behaviour.
I don't give a .... if people get creative with existing material as this happens all the time and often the new work is nice! It would be decent if the original artist gets mentioned in the new piece though.
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
My point about Egotronic is mainly that their common fan is app. 20 years old and never ever heard of Monty on the Run concluding all this cool music was done by Egotronic. That's a joke. They don't just use melody lines, samples etc. of Hubbard's tune to make it like you describe ("get(ting) creative with existing material" which would be fine with me), it is the same tune with some trash above.
The tune originates from the sampler POKE 20 (http://www.discogs.com/Various-Poke-20/release/1992637) which is a freely download-able CDr full of MotR cover tracks, and the other 20 participants show how it can be done much better. |
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Fierman
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 85 |
Quote: My point about Egotronic is mainly that their common fan is app. 20 years old and never ever heard of Monty on the Run concluding all this cool music was done by Egotronic. That's a joke. They don't just use melody lines, samples etc. of Hubbard's tune to make it like you describe ("get(ting) creative with existing material" which would be fine with me), it is the same tune with some trash above.
The tune originates from the sampler POKE 20 (http://www.discogs.com/Various-Poke-20/release/1992637) which is a freely download-able CDr full of MotR cover tracks, and the other 20 participants show how it can be done much better.
somehow i have less of a problem with projects like Egotronic doing it than big top100 stars. It all depends on the intent as well imho. With Egotronic you are at least sure they DO know where the tunes come from (they use c64s on stage as well i understood), and I believe they are not into the music for the money alone. I appreciate their use of c64 tunes as a tribute, not as ripping. |
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Queen bittin
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2011
Posts: 119 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H1lZyix-I0
maybe? |
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Yodelking
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 189 |
Quote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odadWM5MFjY
Uses Zardax' Tune 7.sid as melody line. If only someone could direct me to a link to the original (supposedly by Mozart).
I asked Zardax, and he said that he heard the melody on some TV-show, and he don't think it Mozart. |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
I also know the melody from a german TV commercial, some sparkling wine company spot. I contacted their press department about it, but never got a reply. |
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Conrad
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 833 |
It's funny to see this thread get as far as the maximum states of a byte. ;) Some interesting posts as well.
[offtopic]
Once again, I want to apologise for sounding like a sad cynical little boy in the first post. (a bit like that South Park episode: "You're Getting Old") I really, really, REALLY regret some of the SHIT I wrote at these forums in the past. How embarrassing! That is not me in real life, as some of you know already.
Anyway, I could maybe visit Sundown this year, so I can tell Frankmusik in person what a cynical piece of shit I am sometimes, being behind the times, etc. :)
[/offtopic] |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 638 |
Quote: It's funny to see this thread get as far as the maximum states of a byte. ;) Some interesting posts as well.
[offtopic]
Once again, I want to apologise for sounding like a sad cynical little boy in the first post. (a bit like that South Park episode: "You're Getting Old") I really, really, REALLY regret some of the SHIT I wrote at these forums in the past. How embarrassing! That is not me in real life, as some of you know already.
Anyway, I could maybe visit Sundown this year, so I can tell Frankmusik in person what a cynical piece of shit I am sometimes, being behind the times, etc. :)
[/offtopic]
You are forgiven of your sins, my dear little brother :)
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andym00
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 44 |
Just stumbled across this little gem from a Hrvatski/Blitter collaboration on the Constant Friction - Collaborations 2 album..
I'll post the Spotify link, because it's not on youtube..
http://open.spotify.com/track/10zof2OYpELlRjwx4dBMF8
A few snippets of various SIDs in there I think, but a great song none the less :)
edit: Apparently I'm an idiot, it is on youtube..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9EqWCFGzZg
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JLD
Registered: Dec 2010
Posts: 4 |
Quote: Hi, my first post in this forum.
I was searching the internet when I found this post about "Dirty Money - Soom T & Disrupt". The original sid was composed by me in 1990. It is called Reggae2.sid and can be found in HVSC. \MUSICANS\J\JLD\REGGAE2.sid
For about 1,5 years ago I got a mail from a guy namned Disrupt who owned a record label called Jahtari. He asked me for persmission to use my sid and release it on vinyl, Itunes and Beatport etc. Whatever profits come from it, we share 1/3. Me, Singer and the producer.
I was stuned. My old crappy tune made when I was 15 years old was about to be released on vinyl. I agreed with Jahtari and the vinyl was released.
It has now been a year since the release of Soom T - Dirty Money and I know that they have sold quit good. The only thing is that I haven't seen any money at all, at first I didn't care about it. I only thought it was cool that the tune was used. Then about a week ago I found another version of my tune. It was a remix of Dirty Money made by a dj called An-ten-nea. He's remix has been in first place on top 100 download on Beatport 2 weeks in a row. I don't know how much money it could be worth but it got me thinking.
I searched the internet a little bit more, now on the remix version. Then I found out that the remix is also in a BIG facebook game called Nightclub City with 5 miljon active users in a month.
So finnaly... I am glad that the tune got a new life and if I earn some money of it, it whould just be a bonus for me.
Cheers!
Johan Danielsson aka JLD
My Facebook page - http://listn.to/JLD
Hello again
I just want to clarify about my post. It's been a while but I want to make things right.
Sadly my post here is linked to from a webpage called "http://chipflip.wordpress.com/plagiarism/" and it is about plagiarism.
Jan Gleichmar / Jahtari did the right thing before he released "Soom T & Disrupt - Dirty Money" based on my old sid tune REGGAE2. He contacted me and we agreed on the release so it is not plagiarism.
I also got money for the tune ;-) thanks to Jan!
Greetings JLD
http://soundcloud.com/sidchiprocker
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Queen bittin
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2011
Posts: 119 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tRRS8iH4.. |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Daft Punk does it too.
Geir Tjelta, 2013:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA5PRj7KPkE
It's almost that I get a bit angry, how easy it is to make a hit
You hear what I mean?
It is bloody artillery
And their song is from 2013
Mine 2008
The chords goes just the same 4/4 at least
At the same moment.
BUt it is not just chords. It is also a composed chord progression with notes in between. Just the same.
Idea is same.
Ajust tempo and you can mix them'
Would be funny to find out if Artillery was the inspiration though |
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G-Fellow
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 103 |
Quote: Daft Punk does it too.
Geir Tjelta, 2013:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA5PRj7KPkE
It's almost that I get a bit angry, how easy it is to make a hit
You hear what I mean?
It is bloody artillery
And their song is from 2013
Mine 2008
The chords goes just the same 4/4 at least
At the same moment.
BUt it is not just chords. It is also a composed chord progression with notes in between. Just the same.
Idea is same.
Ajust tempo and you can mix them'
Would be funny to find out if Artillery was the inspiration though
Sorry, but I'm pissed off, really. I want that people that steal music to get money in commercial way MUST BLEED, really let them bleed like hell. Send all lawyers of world to them and let them bleed. I hate this fucking shit, to steal something and make money with others efforts.
Yeah, your right, I calm down, yeah your right with the most you sayed in the past in this thread, but I think someday is to much to much.
Anybody fucking rich here in the C64 scene? Than help and let them bleed and send so much lawyers to them, that they think the world only exist out of lawyers.
I'm curious what Geir Tjelta says and if he got informed. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11101 |
Quote:Sorry, but I'm pissed off, really.
no need. noone is going to steal your music afterall. |
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G-Fellow
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 103 |
Quote: Quote:Sorry, but I'm pissed off, really.
no need. noone is going to steal your music afterall.
Why you say this? I think you got not my point, really poor. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11101 |
Quote:Why you say this?
because there is no reason for either you nor me to be pissed off about anyone stealing his or her music. infact the contrary is true, if anyone bothered stealing my music, i'd finally have a reason to be proud of it =) |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1820 |
what grp said! |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3132 |
I hear no resemblance at all, and Artillery.sid is way more good than that boring stuff. |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
g-f please start actually reading posts.
geir told me this yesterday, i pasted what he said, and its correct. its the composed chord progression even with the tie notes. you wont just do that. what is the chance to also do the tie note ? none..
but geir dont care.
even though he is pissed. |
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Stinsen
Registered: Feb 2012
Posts: 71 |
C'mon Sidwave, that's a reeaaally common progression which is used in a ton of tunes (apart from the excellent Artillery :)). I have a hard time seeing Geir copyrighting it. ;) |
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G-Fellow
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 103 |
Quote: g-f please start actually reading posts.
geir told me this yesterday, i pasted what he said, and its correct. its the composed chord progression even with the tie notes. you wont just do that. what is the chance to also do the tie note ? none..
but geir dont care.
even though he is pissed.
SORRY, SidWave, really SORRY that I feel with Geir, that my heart is with him and I can feel how this is for him. Sorry for my sympathy. Sorry that I over read that this was a quote from Geir, but this can happen or? We humans or? Sorry that I did agree with you SidWave.
Any chance in the future for some friendly response? |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
@Groepaz & count :
the issue isnt solely about someone using "my" (or geir's) stuff and making a hit out of it (no i'm not delusional i know i'm not geir) but passing it off as his own work, not even having the decency to give credit where credit is due. That's just low.
How did you feel when someone recracked your cracks back in the day ? Yeah, exactly.
I dont have to be personally involved to be pissed about the matter. As a fellow musician i feel the anger (no pun intended, g-fellow).
Stinsen & Ian :
I disagree, i've actually never heard anything from daft punk's RAM album before i stumbled upon this link on FB
(yeah i've been living under a rock the past 12 months) and it instantly hit me as artillery.
But please, do supply links to similar sounding compositions. |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Quote: C'mon Sidwave, that's a reeaaally common progression which is used in a ton of tunes (apart from the excellent Artillery :)). I have a hard time seeing Geir copyrighting it. ;)
No it just aint.
As geir wrote, its a composed progression, not standard yadayada.
If i am wrong, then please link all the examples with same,
since there are so many as you say :) |
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
Thanks for making my Saturday morning. That is a hilarious notion.
https://soundcloud.com/reflexreflex/daft-punk-doin-it-right-ref.. |
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Stinsen
Registered: Feb 2012
Posts: 71 |
Quote: No it just aint.
As geir wrote, its a composed progression, not standard yadayada.
If i am wrong, then please link all the examples with same,
since there are so many as you say :)
What? You mean I have to be able to backup my claims? :D Actually come to think of it, I can't seem to come up with any good examples. :P One of the other songs on the album ("Within" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjIN2dcdY9g&list=PLPPCjdJO1OwHtx..) has a more obvious origin though (Spy vs. Spy anyone?). :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11101 |
Quote:How did you feel when someone recracked your cracks back in the day ? Yeah, exactly.
meanwhile i am pissed for grover washington jr |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 453 |
Stinsen's right, the resemblance between 'doing it right' and 'artillery' seems rather slight to me, and neither song is distinct enough to exclude a possible coincidence.
but what pearls of frustration i see above! ;) |
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 321 |
Quoting SIDwaveDaft Punk does it too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA5PRj7KPkE
It's almost that I get a bit angry, how easy it is to make a hit
You hear what I mean?
It is bloody artillery
sidwave: coincidence. yes, the part you mention is similar to daft punk's tune but i think it's rather unlikely that daft punk ripped off geir. |
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TPM
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 109 |
why would it be unlikely?
yeah.. unlikely that some big artists named Daft Punk saw Shape's demo, jammed some bits at the studio afterwards and unawarely came to this composition, which is very similar to Geir's stuff.
Instead of being cranky about this, you could mail Thomas or Guy-Manuel. They're not unreachable. Have a talk. |
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 321 |
Quoting TPMwhy would it be unlikely?
yeah.. unlikely that some big artists named Daft Punk saw Shape's demo, jammed some bits at the studio afterwards and unawarely came to this composition, which is very similar to Geir's stuff.
bingo.
Quoting TPM Instead of being cranky about this, you could mail Thomas or Guy-Manuel. They're not unreachable. Have a talk.
meh. just more csdb *jazzhands* draaamaaaaa! *jazzhands*
;D |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11101 |
i wonder if mr. grover washington also whined in some webforum .... |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Unlikely, he passed away 1999 when most people had no idea what a webforum could be. |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 453 |
try as i might, i still don't get that Grover remark. |
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algorithm
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 702 |
Its possible it could be subconsciously composed to be similar or identical in bass lines etc after listening to a tune unless of course part of the actual sid section is sampled |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11101 |
Quote:try as i might, i still don't get that Grover remark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oxb4LayC7A vs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amXNbaRtLpQ |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034 |
Grover's song is cute, but 'AjE' is different song. Putting vs. between them is only acceptable for purely academical reasons... ;-) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11101 |
"Grover's song is cute, but 'AjE' is different song."
err yes, except the beat and the chord progression and part of the lead is same =) if that daft punk tune just slightly resembles artellery, then "acidjazzed evening" is a straight cover of "just the two of us".
or maybe both are just coincedence and some people are getting winding up about nothing. |
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lft
Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 369 |
There's a nice and entertaining documentary series about these matters at http://everythingisaremix.info. Especially the first episode, about music. Turn up the bass and don't miss the surprise at the very end. =) |
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tempest
Registered: Jun 2005
Posts: 25 |
Seriously, Groepaz: Fuck you.
Feel free to notate both Acidjazzed Evening and Just the Two of Us and come back with your "beat and the chord progression and part of the lead is same". |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11101 |
haha. touchy subject, eh. and yeah, i have checked playing one along with the another - there is a lot of similarity that cant be denied at all. whether that was intended or coincedence, i dont know (nor do i care). |
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tempest
Registered: Jun 2005
Posts: 25 |
Oh, I thought it was straight cover. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11101 |
read again. i was questioning that this daft punk thing is even related to artillery. because IF it is, THEN acid jazzed evening must be a straight cover of just the two of us. because artillery is even less similar to that daftpunk tune. and even the similarities between acid jazzed evening and just the two of us are questionable and may just boil down to "yeah thats how a tune in this musical style sounds like".
personally i find the whole discussion funny, because indeed everything is a remix. also copyright does not exist :) |
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6R6
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 244 |
http://www.entlawdigest.com/2013/07/18/2554.htm |
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Dano
Registered: Jul 2004
Posts: 226 |
Quote: http://www.entlawdigest.com/2013/07/18/2554.htm
could someone please put these in some easier to understand words? i'm not quite sure i understood correctly what the article says.. |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933 |
http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/06/14/37372.htm
That's easier to understand. It's an unfortunate outcome. Mr. Torres must now have a new house with a bigger pool. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1031 |
horrible, so, if I understand this right, it's perfectly fine for US ppl to steal from the rest of the world, just as long as the person you steal from hasn't spend tons of $$$ for some bs registration in the usa.
well, fuck you usa and your stealing timbalamers! |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3132 |
 |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 638 |
Sad news! I am really sorry, 6R6. |
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theWizard
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 109 |
6r6 i feel for you there mate .. i dont peticularly like americans much at all either but never liked justin timberdick his music is shite ( exluding yours i actually like that c64 tune ) , fuck should come up with his own stuff not rip , no chance of suing the munter no? wont cost you anything quit your job , go sign on the dole then go see legal aid. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1289 |
Wizard: timbaland != timberlake ;) |
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theWizard
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 109 |
no timba lands a style , timberlake is a fucking cretin that would never be alowed to marry my daughter lol |
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NecroPolo
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 231 |
Damn. I'm really sorry to hear that bro'. Using word 'unfair' would be unfair. Only fair thing would be to get a very precoius property of him stolen legally. Or cast an impotence voodo curse on the moterfucker.
You know what? That song was his only good moment in his life. Fuckin thief. Fuckin law that justifies that.
BTW I stole a SID recently, too. I took all the main riff from my 2009 SID 'Borxx'. At least I gave a proper credit to the original author and discussed the matter personally in the mirror someday morning :)
https://soundcloud.com/wackormusic/borxx-redux |
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goto80
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 138 |
Some of you might be interested in this (academic) essay that discusses chipmusic & copyright:
http://www.iaspmjournal.net/index.php/IASPM_Journal/article/vie.. |
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 321 |
Quoting goto80Some of you might be interested in this (academic) essay that discusses chipmusic & copyright:
http://www.iaspmjournal.net/index.php/IASPM_Journal/article/vie..
thx for posting that. great pdf. :) |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Timbaland stole another tune, this just in. it was jeroen tel on facebook with this news:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OElv0ibXlik
victim this time, barry leithc, lethal weapon 3 |
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Kristian
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 126 |
That is pretty far fetched. Not a rip off in my opinion. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11101 |
the fun thing is that you can more or less easily create similarities like that even for totally unrelated songs if they use a similar chords progression and thus share parts of the melody. RE: "just the two of us" |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 501 |
Makes me think of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pidokakU4I |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11101 |
lol yes, i had that one in mind as well :=) |
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Magnar
Registered: Aug 2009
Posts: 60 |
Wackee, wow - I'll stick to the 4x chords recept from now off! haha |
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Domey
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2003
Posts: 8 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-r5WfXW0Cg
Finnish rappers taking a loan on something.
What is this? |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3132 |
Quote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-r5WfXW0Cg
Finnish rappers taking a loan on something.
What is this?
/MUSICIANS/G/Galway_Martin/Green_Beret.sid tune #10 |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
Finnish hippie nerd rap is probably the worst I could think of to misuse Galway's masterpiece. |
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bepp
Registered: Jun 2010
Posts: 263 |
My ears bleed :-| |
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fade
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 290 |
apologies for bumping this thread, but here's another one for the collection.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfRnewAxLfw |
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bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2476 |
https://youtu.be/a27MCWZOKJw starting around 2:50 - isn't that...? I think it is! |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3132 |
that's just "Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence" (Ryuichi Sakamoto) |
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Snabel
Registered: Aug 2015
Posts: 23 |
Quote: https://youtu.be/a27MCWZOKJw starting around 2:50 - isn't that...? I think it is!
https://youtu.be/7JTroFovUXw?t=10s |
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bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2476 |
Ah interesting - thank you both, you walking encyclopedias! :-) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
wtf even last ninja is stolen :) |
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Trap
Registered: Jul 2010
Posts: 222 |
Generally speaking, I think more 8-bit musicians borrowed from other musicians than the other way around. I was surprised to discover that most of Martin Galway's music is heavily inspired from a lot of the synth-heroes from that time. He's still my hero though :) |
