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Forums > C64 Composing > timeline of SID achievements
2009-04-08 13:51
goto80

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 130
timeline of SID achievements

I'm looking for a timeline of SID achievements. Does this exist? A list of important software (trackers and non-trackers, midi-sequencers and midi-slaves, sample-players and "drum machines", generatives, remix-tools, etc) and SID-tricks (playing digi-stuff, multispeed, hardrestart, etc). Who, where, when, how, why. I think a timeline over these things would be important to put together, if it doesn't already exist.

(I work on a timeline of chip music in general here: chipflip.wordpress.com/timeline. It is far from finished, of course. Suggestions are very welcome)

 
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2009-04-14 15:12
Geir
Account closed

Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 303
Hubbard's Zoids player has a hard-coded ADSR change on the gate off call, if no tie-note is chosen by the way. He was probably the first. He was also the first with waveform-table drums, that sounded good. Looks like Hubbard knew what he was doing.
2009-04-15 15:28
Frantic

Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1307
The fact that not only (R)elease affects the internal envelope counter, but all of the ADSR parameters, and that you can also use the testbit to achieve snappier sounds in a usueful way in some cases is pretty much public knowledge I guess.. Dunno if that was what Geir was referring to, in general, or if it was something more specific...

I also know that setting a higher release than the currently active one (if the release phase is the currently active phase) will make the sound silent immediately (at least I read that somewhere - I should check it I guess).... Maybe that is useful for "hard-restarting" too?

Hmhmh...
2009-04-15 16:15
Geir
Account closed

Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 303
Quote: The fact that not only (R)elease affects the internal envelope counter, but all of the ADSR parameters, and that you can also use the testbit to achieve snappier sounds in a usueful way in some cases is pretty much public knowledge I guess.. Dunno if that was what Geir was referring to, in general, or if it was something more specific...

I also know that setting a higher release than the currently active one (if the release phase is the currently active phase) will make the sound silent immediately (at least I read that somewhere - I should check it I guess).... Maybe that is useful for "hard-restarting" too?

Hmhmh...


Hi Frantic. No I am not reffering to test-bit. That's different and won't close the ADSR envelope, but reset the waveform envelope (inside the chip). Setting a higher Release won't close it either, but a higher Sustain than the current will close it, but still you need a few frames for that. The best would be if one of us wrote a little tool to show the ADSR reaction. I've used different methods in the past to handle "hard restart", even a method that the first Sidplay couldn't handle. I think this was by setting a higher Sustain instead of using Release, that wasn't emulated by Sidplay. This led to the "hard restart" snuffling (if that's the word for it?).
2009-04-15 16:25
Steppe

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1481
Which tune are you referring to, Geir? I'd like to hear how your "snuffling" sounds. ;-)
2009-04-15 17:51
Geir
Account closed

Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 303
Quote: Which tune are you referring to, Geir? I'd like to hear how your "snuffling" sounds. ;-)

Hi Steppe. Mostly all tunes from 1990/1991. You could try famestyle.sid, melodious.sid etc.. I clearly remember Two Divided by Zero, cover by Trond Lindanger (IQ64). Also the sounds get cut off on tie-notes because of the ADSR trick. Hmm. famestyle.sid even has some bugs around 1:02 in the Filter (bad rip?) with Sidplay2/w
2009-04-15 19:49
Geir
Account closed

Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 303
Okay. I found versions from 1997-2002, and they bug. A good test tune is Two divided by Zero. Didn't like the Sidplay that much because of this in the past. Well, I achived to have written something that an emulator couldn't handle for quite some years. Hehe. :-)
2009-04-16 14:11
Frantic

Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1307
@Geir: yeah.. sorry.. I was referring to Sustain of course. (..and yes, of course the testbit doesn't affect the ADSR per se, but many people still use it for similar purposes... ...as you already also know, of course. :)

What do you mean with "snuffling"? Didn't quite get that.

Regarding hard restart, Cadaver wrote a nice text about some aspects of this in that HVSC celebration mag/demo that was released just one or a few years ago. Someone should convert that into text and put it on Codebase. :)
2009-04-17 10:03
Laxity

Registered: Aug 2005
Posts: 426
Quote: Hard restart: it seems we cannot say with 100% certainty who did it first.. Laxity informed me that JCH got help to do it from him, and that he himself peeked, maybe at Bjerregaards player..

So, who did it, remains a mystery.


I don't want to spread incorrect info, and there's a portion of uncertainty to this statement. I'm pretty sure that this is a thing we (JCH and I) discussed back in the days and that I told him that I found this technique in some other driver. It's so long ago that I can't be sure what came first - the hen or the egg.. :)
2009-04-17 11:28
Frantic

Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1307
By the way; Another line of achievements that may be relevant to a time line may be the emulation stuff. In itself, emulating the SID doesn't have much to do with the real SID of course, but I am rather referring to the type of research and insights into the detailed workings of the (real) SID that the emu-stuff has resulted in.
2009-04-18 17:09
SIDWAVE
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238
Quote: By the way; Another line of achievements that may be relevant to a time line may be the emulation stuff. In itself, emulating the SID doesn't have much to do with the real SID of course, but I am rather referring to the type of research and insights into the detailed workings of the (real) SID that the emu-stuff has resulted in.

1990:

1) PHS codes "The Galway Show" sidplayer on Amiga, released in a demo coded by Red Sector (I think?)

1991:

1) PHS and Il Sturo release "The 100 Most Remembered C64 Tunes", an amiga demo with 100 sidtunes.
2) PHS and Il Sturo release PlaySID 1.0 on amiga.

1992:

1) PHS and Il Sturo release PlaySID 2.0b on amiga.
2) Michael Schwendt release SIDPLAY on PC.

1993:

1) PHS and Il Sturo release PlaySID 3 on amiga.
2) Michael Schwendt now upgrades SIDPLAY on pc so regular that there is a new version every month, until 1997.

1996:

1) PHS/CCS releases CCS64, a C64 emulator for PC, it has the playSID routines included, and at this point is the ruling C64 emulator, for many years, until the VICE project gets up to standards.

2000: ??? (i cant remember the year)

1) Simon White releases SIDPLAY 2 (cycle accurate)

The SID filter routines are the ones being changed with every update of SIDPLAY 1/2, and..

2008:

1) The work by Alankila, concerning the SID filter emulation, is included in VICE emulator, and SIDPLAY 2 windows.

Alankila's work is based on microscope peekings and more or less complete disassembly of real SID chips.

Another guy, Kevtris, is working on a complete physical rebuild of the SID chip. (microscopes, oscilloscopes, soldering stuff)


This was just the main things that happened, concerning SID emulation.. :)
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