Log inRegister an accountBrowse CSDbHelp & documentationFacts & StatisticsThe forumsAvailable RSS-feeds on CSDbSupport CSDb Commodore 64 Scene Database
You are not logged in - nap
CSDb User Forums


Forums > C64 Composing > Highest times-x speed of SID tunes?
2013-06-02 15:25
TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2035
Highest times-x speed of SID tunes?

Hey there,

especially in older tunes you encounter double/quad/whatsover speed. I wonder what is the highest figure. AFAIK Barbarian is 8x speed. Is there any tune with a player routine that is supposed to be called even more often per frame?

Thx in advance
Ryk
2013-06-02 15:35
iAN CooG

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3128
/MUSICIANS/J/Jeff/12-speed_tune.sid
as the title says, it's 12x
2013-06-02 15:36
TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2035
Thx a lot :)
2013-06-02 15:37
iAN CooG

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3128
/MUSICIANS/J/Julian_Jaymz/63_speed_music_1.sid
despite the title, it's "just" 9x
2013-06-02 17:28
Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5007
we have 1 rasterline tracker now thx to hermit, 160x anyone ? :)
2013-06-02 18:17
TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2035
lol oswald, really just was curious, it's not at all that I wanted to complain or talk anyone into more than 12x :) 12 is fine.

Taxim found another 12x for me in a German forum
GRG in Cyberspace
2013-06-02 18:41
Linus

Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 637
16x - Winterland Hades
2013-06-02 18:48
iAN CooG

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3128
Quote: lol oswald, really just was curious, it's not at all that I wanted to complain or talk anyone into more than 12x :) 12 is fine.

Taxim found another 12x for me in a German forum
GRG in Cyberspace


nope, that's 8x
23C5  A2 09     LDX #$09
23C7  8E 05 DC  STX $DC05
23CA  A2 98     LDX #$98
23CC  8E 04 DC  STX $DC04

CIA setting are calculated this way: ($4cc8/8)-1 = $0998
2013-06-02 20:54
SIDWAVE
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238
i experimented with 256x sample sounds
2013-06-02 21:31
Jazzcat

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044
First that I am aware of is Michael Winterberg - 3 July 1986 - First Dance Sample 1986

First 8xspeed - Jeff/X-Factor - 27 June 1992 - House

First 12xspeed - Jeff/Camelot - 1994 - 12-Speed tune

First 16xspeed - Taki/Natural Beat - 15 September 1998 - Cubic Player


Source: http://www.atlantis-prophecy.org/recollection/?load=world_of_de..
2013-06-04 18:35
TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2035
Thx everyone!
2013-06-04 20:13
NecroPolo

Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 231
Interesting thread mates.

I may be dead wrong but as far as I can remember, back in time when Hermit coded the 'rakBIT' SID remix album interactive album cover that was a good old C64 music collection, he told me something like that his SIDRIP tool that reads the SID registers from clock to clock reported some extra wicked multispeed player code for Martin Galway's TIMES OF LORE title tune, the one that sounds like a real guitar. I can't recall it clearly but as if we talked about some 16x player or something.

iAN what do you say? You know the players inside-outside.

The rakBIT music colly includes a Richard Joseph tune, too, called 'Rimrunner'. I still can't recall clearly as Hermit told me a lot of code tech stuff that I could not really understand at the time but it was maybe an another multispeed tune, with extra wicked player, eating almost all the rastertime available. But maybe not, it might have been Galway's Times of Lore?

Check the album cover colly if you like, both tunes are included:

rakBIT

These are not the original SIDs in it but the bytestream player.
2013-06-04 20:45
Hein

Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933
Galway's Arkanoid is filled with multi-speed sounds at least. :)

I think Barbarian is 8 speed.. resulting in not too obvious multi-speed sounds, but a great tune overall.
2013-06-05 15:28
Linus

Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 637
Yup, Barbarian rules.
2013-06-05 21:04
Jazzcat

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044
Hmm what year are those ones?
2013-06-05 22:47
TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2035
Barbarian is almost ancient - 1988.

Maybe these records you linked need to be checked.
2013-06-06 12:47
NecroPolo

Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 231
Quote: Hmm what year are those ones?

Arkanoid - 1987
Barbarian - 1987
Times of Lore - 1988
Rimrunner - 1988

I agree mates, Barbarian is a gem. All of them above IMO :)
2013-06-06 17:44
Hein

Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933
Arkanoid is multi-speed if it comes to sound-fx, and the samples are generated realtime (at ultra-speed), which sounds alot cooler than the alternative drum sampled version.
2013-06-06 19:08
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11088
wth is "ultra speed" ? =)
2013-06-06 19:27
6R6

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 244
Some more of Galway's songs are multispeed: wizball (and maybe parallax)
Check with my sidplay and you get a visual :)
2013-06-06 19:54
FATFrost
Account closed

Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 211
@groepaz,ultra is when it sounds awesome
2013-06-06 20:40
Hein

Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933
Quote: Some more of Galway's songs are multispeed: wizball (and maybe parallax)
Check with my sidplay and you get a visual :)


Great tool, so Electrosound is the first nitro-speed music when it's going at high BPM? :)
2013-06-06 21:16
Count Zero

Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1809
nitro sure is below ultra - why not go for hyper?

*sums* hypa hypa ...
2013-06-06 22:22
NecroPolo

Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 231
Quote: Some more of Galway's songs are multispeed: wizball (and maybe parallax)
Check with my sidplay and you get a visual :)


Yess, loving that player!
2013-06-07 11:37
Soren

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547
Selfpromotion... I still quite like the drum stuff I did in "8th frame.sid" :)
2013-06-07 14:23
TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2035
Quote: Some more of Galway's songs are multispeed: wizball (and maybe parallax)
Check with my sidplay and you get a visual :)


Yeah Wizball is QuadSpeed and another one of my alltimes favs by Galway, Times of Lore is double speed NTSC clock :)

@6RG: I began coding a smilar tool (mainly meant for own usage, but maybe to be released some day, who knows, coding that was the main reason why I opened this thread) before I found yours on HVSC page a few days ago. Great work you did in Sidplay64 v0.7, anyway.

@Jeff: \o/ Thx for the self-promo, didn't know that one before, great percussion :)
2013-08-12 19:59
TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2035
Hey there,

thx again for your help, everyone.

Do you have any idea why I fail to calculate the speeds of Wizball and Times of Lore properly as Ian had explained thus

23C5 A2 09 LDX #$09
23C7 8E 05 DC STX $DC05
23CA A2 98 LDX #$98
23CC 8E 04 DC STX $DC04

CIA setting are calculated this way: ($4cc8/8)-1 = $0998

All the other tunes' speeds can be calculated with that formula by halting the timer, initialising and dividing #$4cc7 by #$llhh of the timer values $DC04/05.

Of course I do know their real speed and both songs of course do play in the correct timing in a CIA-timer-IRQ, that's not the problem, but I really wanna calculate their speed and fail :)

Thx in advance if you have any idea.

CU
Ryk

PS: just a guess: could it be possible that they turn on the switched off $DC0E again even when initialising so that my values are f--ked up?
2013-08-12 20:08
iAN CooG

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3128
there was a time where cia timers were set in the play routine each time, instead of once in the init as we usually do now. The important thing is that the CIA generated IRQ happen at specific and constant time to have equal distance between play calls inside a frame. It happens rarely that 2 calls but be at a different and irregular distance, so the CIA timer method won't produce a sound as intended, so the actual raster pos must be used, either with d012 polling or multiple raster IRQs.
I don't see the need to use the old method so I simply stick to the new one, just set CIA in init and it's done.
2013-08-12 20:14
TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2035
Ah I see, thx a lot, then I don't have to pain my brain trying anymore :)
RefreshSubscribe to this thread:

You need to be logged in to post in the forum.

Search the forum:
Search   for   in  
All times are CET.
Search CSDb
Advanced
Users Online
Cobra/Samar
t0m3000/ibex-crew
Matt
user/MYD
iceout/Avatar/HF
Mibri/ATL^MSL^PRX
Guests online: 307
Top Demos
1 Next Level  (9.8)
2 Mojo  (9.7)
3 Coma Light 13  (9.7)
4 Edge of Disgrace  (9.6)
5 No Bounds  (9.6)
6 Comaland 100%  (9.6)
7 Uncensored  (9.6)
8 The Ghost  (9.6)
9 Wonderland XIV  (9.6)
10 Bromance  (9.6)
Top onefile Demos
1 Party Elk 2  (9.7)
2 Cubic Dream  (9.6)
3 Copper Booze  (9.5)
4 Rainbow Connection  (9.5)
5 TRSAC, Gabber & Pebe..  (9.5)
6 Onscreen 5k  (9.5)
7 Dawnfall V1.1  (9.5)
8 Quadrants  (9.5)
9 Daah, Those Acid Pil..  (9.5)
10 Birth of a Flower  (9.5)
Top Groups
1 Booze Design  (9.3)
2 Nostalgia  (9.3)
3 Oxyron  (9.3)
4 Censor Design  (9.3)
5 Crest  (9.3)
Top Swappers
1 Derbyshire Ram  (10)
2 Jerry  (9.8)
3 Violator  (9.8)
4 Acidchild  (9.7)
5 Starlight  (9.6)

Home - Disclaimer
Copyright © No Name 2001-2024
Page generated in: 0.072 sec.