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Forums > CSDb Discussions > What is Onefile Demo, what is Graphics...
2017-06-27 18:38
ptoing

Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 225
What is Onefile Demo, what is Graphics...

I recently started to go through a lot of art on here to put on my SD card for enjoyment on real hardware purposes.

Then I came across Industrial Dawn which is just a picture with music. I don't see anything else going on. (That said, it is really nice, both music and pic).

It is entered as One-File Demo, while a lot of pictures with music (could link a whole bunch by Mermaid for example, but also loads others), which are just entered as Graphics.

I guess there is no super easy way to draw a line here. Any thoughts?

IMO, demo would include at least some kind of effect, or a scroller maybe. But then people had a discussion about this when I released my Headache pic in the gfx compo at X'10.
 
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2017-06-27 22:37
TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 387
Dejavu... Strictly nitpicking, we'd also move any music which does more than making noise into demo then ;)
2017-06-27 22:41
Groepaz

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 8099
actually... i remember back in the days, we called all those things "demos", even if its just a koala :)
2017-06-27 22:42
TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 387
yeah whatever's not a game

koala = graphic demos :)
2017-06-28 08:36
Jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1474
This question was brought up about two decades ago, in connection with multi-screen pictures.

IMO, anything that isn't a static image without sound and can't stand on its own as a standstill piece of graphic art (i.e. a coder is more involved than just helping with a simple displayer), is a demo. The same way I'm not too fond of extra graphics or effects added to single music releases (especially on competitions).
2017-06-28 10:55
bugjam

Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 1203
@JB: regarding gfx in music releases, I reckon most parties solve that problem nowadays by switching the screen off during music compo anyway, so it does not influence the judgement of the tune. And then I do quite enjoy those neat presentations in some tunes, I have to say.
Regarding the topic, I'd concur with ptoing that I'd count gfx + music only as graphics release and whenever an effect is added as onefile demo, but I admit that this discretion is totally arbitrary.
2017-06-28 11:16
ptoing

Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 225
bugjam: That is not really what I wrote. I can see how a pic with music would be considered a demo. But then I think at X they turned off the music for the pics, not sure though.

They did not however turn off the gfx for the music compo.

Jailbird: So stuff like border sprites and similar things on pictures you would also call demo? I dunno if I would go that far, but I sometimes wonder if separating "pure" modes from "hack" modes, if there are enough entries. But that might be a pain in the ass for the orgas.

Pure as in just Hires or MCOL, hack as in everything else.
2017-06-28 11:41
Sounx

Registered: Dec 2006
Posts: 25
A pic with some music added, but where the clear intention is the release of graphics, is just that... A graphics release. Total nonsense to consider this as onefile demo! Countless 'Logo for XXX' files should be considered onefile demos then. Anything else added but music, like for example scrollers and/or effects, make a onefile demo in my opinion.

A similar situation arises when people use sprites/borders to enhance their graphics. That's what I would surely call a onefile demo as it requires some neat coding and surely the graphics benefit from the added code. Which doesn't make it a standard graphics release anymore.

I find it quite stunning that pictures that use code to work around limitations or polish the pictures with FE. (border)sprites are and have been allowed to participate in 'normal' GFX competitions. It is plain wrong and quite frankly unfair to those graphicians that don't have a coder to back them up.
2017-06-28 12:45
Jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1474
Quoting Ptoing
Jailbird: So stuff like border sprites and similar things on pictures you would also call demo?

As soon as you think you have to add any additional credits to your graphics release other than "graphics", you should call it a demo. Serious, exclusive programming or musical involvement in a release makes it more than just a single graphics release. I don't think it's too hard to determine when other than pure graphical skills had crucial parts in displaying a screen.
2017-06-28 13:54
ptoing

Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 225
I can see that point and agree with it.

What about when there is already something out there that easily lets you do stuff, like Timanthes lets you make FLI including the FLI bug area, or I use vicpack to convert Asslace stuff. There was a coder needed to do the original leg work, but same goes for whatever graphics program you use.

So arguably if there was some really powerful editor that would allow flexible sprite overlays, rasters, and border sprites, then what would things made with that fall under?
2017-06-28 20:54
TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 387
about border sprites making gfx demo: doesn't make sense, as we've got ESCOS aka OSCAR as gfx format.
about "static" artwork only: then all FLI pics wouldn't count as gfx any longer :)

Seriously, I don't think, there is a solution which doesn't create new problems/make things even more complicated
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