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2005-04-27 05:41

TDJ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879

Release id #17924 : Mental Power

Okay, it seems somebody (Ninjasbane?) has found another creative way to 'dirty up the database'. I think it's absolutely nonsense to add a demo which is already there, just because somebody put an intro screen before it. First of all, adding an intro screen does not make you a co-creator, second you could have just uploaded this version as an extra to the normal demo, and be done with it.

I say: remove this entry.

2005-04-27 23:38

Jon
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 247

Dirty up... Thanks. I have spent several hours adding and updating major US scene groups, and I get "dirty up".

Look, if I had the skill to rip the intro, I would have done it and kept the Warlocks demo out of the database under USSPE.

HOWEVER, a big part of the US scene was releasing imports. Most US members of the CSDb are former importers. Have a gander at The Survivor's entry... import, import, import. Tobruk is credited Ikari and TS, for example. Is this a problem?

What if Ikari wanted to put Tobruk in their entry without the TS intro? Should TS be forced to take theirs down?

Slapping a intro screen on a demo wasn't very common here in the US, but it DID happen and it was a significant part of the US scene. Significant enough to document here, IMHO.

AND, I did NOT list USSPE as the co-creator. I listed them as the releaser--- and they happened to release that demo on the US scene. I thought I explained this in the comments entry.

I have a ton of US stuff (demos games, future writer files, etc) I have not seen on the net. Now I have some place to put them. If I am "dirtying it up", I don't need to waste my time.

-Ninj

2005-04-27 23:53

Jazzcat

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044

The importing scene is important. It was a way of bring a C64 product to an entire country-community-of c64 people.

Keep adding them releases.

2005-04-28 00:29

Tch
Account closed

Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512

Definately!
Upload whatever you can,so people can add it to their collection.
This will help preserve as much of the scene as we can!
Enough has been lost already!

2005-04-28 02:54

Moloch

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2924

That's right, keep it coming. As I said in the PM a few days ago Ninjasbane - keep it coming!

2005-04-28 07:01

H.O
Account closed

Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 70

I dont mind; not in general and not regarding one of my demos having been imported (although I fail to see the point in importing demos, especially PAL demos that doesnt change their timing on a NTSC machine)

But, I would actually prefer imports to be a separate category and have the credits for the import only relate to the importing part.

After all, this release is not a Warlocks release; it is an import of a Warlocks release, true, but we had nothing to do with this import (or with exporting this demo)

So for imports I would like to have:

1. A specific import category
2. The credits for the import only apply to the people importing it, i.e. only the import group as releaser and only credits regarding the import (importing, credits for import intro) in the credits section.

With double credits, as it is today, it looks a bit odd since it might seem like The Warlocks took part in creating this import, and it also looks like I took part in creating a Warlocks release _after_ I had left The Warlocks for Science451.

All IMO of course.

2005-04-28 08:22

TDJ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879

Quote: I dont mind; not in general and not regarding one of my demos having been imported (although I fail to see the point in importing demos, especially PAL demos that doesnt change their timing on a NTSC machine)

But, I would actually prefer imports to be a separate category and have the credits for the import only relate to the importing part.

After all, this release is not a Warlocks release; it is an import of a Warlocks release, true, but we had nothing to do with this import (or with exporting this demo)

So for imports I would like to have:

1. A specific import category
2. The credits for the import only apply to the people importing it, i.e. only the import group as releaser and only credits regarding the import (importing, credits for import intro) in the credits section.

With double credits, as it is today, it looks a bit odd since it might seem like The Warlocks took part in creating this import, and it also looks like I took part in creating a Warlocks release _after_ I had left The Warlocks for Science451.

All IMO of course.

I was going to write a similair post, but fortunately I don't have to do anything but agree :)

2005-04-28 11:38

Jon
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 247

I couldn't agree more H.O . There are a few things I have passed on including because they are difficult to catagorize under the present system.

Like... how do you classify a US crack with an intro screen that says that it was "imported to Canada by..." ?

Or a release that has three intros, one by the cracking group, one by the US import group, and one by a guy who had it on his BBS and decided to put his intro on it in order to impress the locals?

"Released by Fusion, RAD, and Pete from Milwaukee"?

Of course, there are the intros where someone sector edited the scroll text... but I'll keep those off of the CSDb ( a little TOO muddy).

Ideally, I'd like to see an entry where simply the scrolltext can be entered. Say if a group like XPB used the same intro screen (like those bizarre flashing sprites with matching border scrolls) you don't have six releases with files under their entry with that same aethetically unpleasing intro. A user / researcher can simply view the scrolltext for that release and be on his merry way. This will also help in determining the "shots fired" in scene wars and the like without actually downloading 50+ intros / demos that deal with the war.

We'll see what works out...

-NJB

2005-05-01 21:52

Wanderer
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478

I say, if someone's got material that isn't up on CSDB, let them add it. It isn't Ninja's fault someone put an intro on top of it.

Would you rather have one version of a game or two versions, one with another intro on it? For the sake of clarity, one release would be ideal but for nostalgia's sake, I'd prefer seeing ALL of the versions that existed.

Survivors and Ikari, there are releases that Nik added and they are without our intro. In other cases, our intro is on top of theirs acting as an 'import' to North America.

To keep it simple, I don't think we need to know who imported something from USA to Canada - if you have the release, great, but the credit should probably go to the original two groups. Maybe a new category could be added?

Re-imported, lamer imported, BBS imported lol...

2005-05-02 12:14

Jon
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 247

For the sake of clarity, I recredited The Mind Slayer for "loader" instead of "coder".

While I'm not sure that's what "loader" is supposed to mean (I took it to mean a loading routine of some sort beyond writing an intro screen and crunching it onto an import), it best fits the USSPE involvement in that release.

I know if I wrote a demo and someone put an intro screen on it and then was credited with the code... it'd bother me, too. It would seem to deminish my efforts as the coder of the actual demo. So in the future, I'll be sure to credit intro screen writers with "loader" instead of code in order to avoid any more headaches.

Jon / Ninjasbane

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