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2002-08-25 22:41

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3038

Dim cold calculation?!?!?!

Okay.. I have to say something about the thing which really bugs me now. It's a sentence taken from review of Singles Collection. Here we go: "a dim, coldly calculated concept made for the due of things. Sadly enough all too recent as demands for not letting the stream dry up completely".

Dear critic.. Please don't tell us that you know what we feel when we compose, draw and code. Are you really so desperately incompetent that you really believe that people like TMR, Hollowman and others who participated in the project produce things because they desperately want the stream (another stupid catch word from that cathegory where retro & oldskool belongs) to continue?? Oh man, wake up.. nobody needs to do anything. If those people didn't enjoy what they did, they would never do anything. Please don't tell us that creative people do things because they want to keep c64 alive. I don't think anybody who participated on production of the collection did that with this purpose, only you are so incompetent that you dare to present daemagogy as fact. My god, dude those words you said are naiver than any retro bafflegab I've ever read on lemon64.com forums or comp.sys.cbm. And this from person who is actively participating in the C64 scene. Please go spread your incompetent and daemagogical definition of scene productivity somewhere else than in the most prestigious magazine ever produced.

Ah.. by the way.. according to your definition Vandalism News is a cold calcualtion too.. just to keep scene alive? Yeah?. If you believe in your own words, you already consider scene dead. Scene(rs) doesn't think and analyse things just for the sake of thinking and analysing things like you do.. Sorry but scene(r) is not so simple like you try to present to us. If there is just one person who understands the scene(rs), please stand up and say. Yeah, that's me. .... silence... have a nice dream dude.

... 60 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2004-06-13 14:44

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3038

Quote: Might be off-topic, but then again I don't think so - what I meant was simply that maybe some people write their own opinions as facts, but don't we all have brains in our heads and therefore able to make up our own opinions, you think?

And if some people isn't able to make up their own mind, they thier opinions really matter to you? And if so, WHY?

Yes. BECAUSE.

2004-06-13 15:58

_V_
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124

I'll have to agree with Crossfire on this one. You may think we are walking in circles, but it doesn't seem like it to me. The author's statement might have sounded like a fact, but it isn't - it's an opinion, and you must decide as to how it influences you. In principle, however, an opinion doesn't matter. It's all relative.

2004-06-13 18:14

Puterman
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 188

I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm flaming the hell out of you, but that's not really the intention, so here goes:

This opinion/fact distinction you're all using is so over-simplified that it's completely detached from reality. The relevance of opinions differ a lot, and what might be an important statement in one situation might be nonsense in another one. And what's usually referred to as facts are really opinions too, unless you're using the word in a way that's so abstract that it's completely useless.

Now, I guess that was kind of off-topic, but this discussion has been going in circles for days now, so anything that could affect it in a positive way should be at least a little bit on-topic.

2004-06-13 19:21

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3038

Quote: I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm flaming the hell out of you, but that's not really the intention, so here goes:

This opinion/fact distinction you're all using is so over-simplified that it's completely detached from reality. The relevance of opinions differ a lot, and what might be an important statement in one situation might be nonsense in another one. And what's usually referred to as facts are really opinions too, unless you're using the word in a way that's so abstract that it's completely useless.

Now, I guess that was kind of off-topic, but this discussion has been going in circles for days now, so anything that could affect it in a positive way should be at least a little bit on-topic.

The sad thing on all this is that one doesn't learn if people actually like or dislike the fact that someone says they are doing the things just for the sake of saving the stream of drying completely, but one reads a lot of wise bla bla and yadi yadi about how it's important to respect others opinion even when it is completely ignorant, stupid and arogantly pretentious. And the most saddest (sic!) thing is the fact that I'm not even frustrated about it anymore. It seems like scene is getting more and more impotent and senile with us all getting close to 30+...

...anyway I have news for you. I stopped composing on c64, but what do you think about my new C64 mp3 remix released at... ah forget it... (going to vomit)

2004-06-13 20:28

hollowman

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474

Quote: The sad thing on all this is that one doesn't learn if people actually like or dislike the fact that someone says they are doing the things just for the sake of saving the stream of drying completely, but one reads a lot of wise bla bla and yadi yadi about how it's important to respect others opinion even when it is completely ignorant, stupid and arogantly pretentious. And the most saddest (sic!) thing is the fact that I'm not even frustrated about it anymore. It seems like scene is getting more and more impotent and senile with us all getting close to 30+...

...anyway I have news for you. I stopped composing on c64, but what do you think about my new C64 mp3 remix released at... ah forget it... (going to vomit)

c64 mp3 remix...why not? anything that keeps you from starting(and keeping alive) threads like this is something positive i my eyes.
however i am a bit impressed that you actually managed to make something out of that certain sentence in the review in the first place, i still dont quite get it. but really, if you look at most of the parts in singles collection, how can you not start to question the motives of the participators?

2004-06-13 22:09

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3038

Quote: c64 mp3 remix...why not? anything that keeps you from starting(and keeping alive) threads like this is something positive i my eyes.
however i am a bit impressed that you actually managed to make something out of that certain sentence in the review in the first place, i still dont quite get it. but really, if you look at most of the parts in singles collection, how can you not start to question the motives of the participators?

So what was your motive (in the first place) for example? Was it a dim cold calculation? ;-)

That mp3 remix was an attempt for a bad joke actually...

and btw. that thread was started 2 years ago.. and it was not me who digged it out of the grave.

2004-06-13 23:29

Puterman
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 188

As I'm 30, old and full of wise bla-bla/yadi-yada, I can safely say that Hollowman is all about dim, cold (pre-)calculation. But that's just an opinion, so it probably doesn't count.

2004-06-14 06:27

Crossfire
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 221

Quote: Yes. BECAUSE.

Dude, that's not an answer.....

Anyway, didn't really mean to get all tangled up in the discussion, just wanted to add my two cents.. BUT - it appears to me that this discussion is about something completely different when you look closer at it; that is, why do you take a little bit of critisism so personally?

Hell, if I had to take everything said about me, my person, my groups, my dirty deeds and my releases in the past upon myself as a personal hunchback, I'd probably be locked up in an asylum somewhere...

2004-06-14 07:52

_V_
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124

Well, I don't know, but I do think you can make a distinction about opinion and fact, unless you are willing to go on a wild philosophical tangent. A fact would be that I went to a party recently, and a journalist could write 'V went to a party'. I suspect that noone would argue about this, but rather complain, rightfully, 'Why should I care about that?' An opinion would be if the journalist wrote, 'In an act of dim, cold calculation, V went to a party and was only moderately cool'.

There is a noticeable difference between objectivism and subjectivism, and reviews, in general, are subjective, so their value is limited to the extent that you are willing to accept its (ir)relevance.

2004-06-14 08:31

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3038

Quote: Well, I don't know, but I do think you can make a distinction about opinion and fact, unless you are willing to go on a wild philosophical tangent. A fact would be that I went to a party recently, and a journalist could write 'V went to a party'. I suspect that noone would argue about this, but rather complain, rightfully, 'Why should I care about that?' An opinion would be if the journalist wrote, 'In an act of dim, cold calculation, V went to a party and was only moderately cool'.

There is a noticeable difference between objectivism and subjectivism, and reviews, in general, are subjective, so their value is limited to the extent that you are willing to accept its (ir)relevance.

Good point, but how competent is opinion without insight?

If we talk about journalist who were on a party who knows basic journalist guidelines and ethical principles (not the yellow press one) he would go to the party, gather info, maybe interview people and then write an article. He would not sit behind the table with pencil in his mouth and typic some invented crap in his review.

The art reviewer would probably also need to know some facts about the author of the reviewed thing, at least if he will attempt to question the motives behind that art.

All in all, journalist or reviewer both should be educated about the problematics before they write about it otherwise they risk that it shows in their articles that they are ignorant in that aspect. In case of C64 scene magazine, nobody can expect that e.g. invented interview, or stolen article will cause that editor will be thrown out of the magazine as in the real world. We generally ignore many of such unethical cases, as we are used to them. The same goes with crappy reviews.

Now if I knew that auhor of the review is at least slightly right about that claim. I would shut up, but I'm pretty sure that this collection was just realisation of one crazy idea. (I didn't believe that it would work, but it did) Now you are right, I could accept the irrelevance, but I didn't. And even if I was alone in this, I simply don't want to accept everything without reaction. When I disagree I say that. As I already mentioned, I think that starting post of this topic was a hot-blooded reaction. I would probably not write such crappy reviewer-insulting post today.

"this discussion is about something completely different when you look closer at it; that is, why do you take a little bit of critisism so personally? "

Crossfire, you missed. Shoot again. Hint: I gave donated web-space on one of my sites for this project. I know T.M.R. Now where is my personal connection to Singles Collection volume I?

Puterman, Hollowman: thanx for making this easier for me.. ;-)))))

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