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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1641 |
C64 Codebase
Hello!
It was a while ago now that C64 Codebase Wiki opened its doors. I would just like to encourage good coders sympathetic with this project to actually add some code there. This is important in order to keep the quality of the site. I feel that the quality is somehow fading a little with the stuff that has been added during the last 6 months, to generalize a little.
If you are a decent coder: Just think for a moment about all those sources that you have lying around on your C64 disks and PC harddrives. Codebase needs you!
http://codebase64.org/doku.php
If someone feel like donating some cool stuff, I could use that as prices in some kind of add-good-stuff-to-codebase-competition or so.
A good codebase is a good base for the future C64 scene! ;)
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hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474 |
Quoting Skate
But we as c64 scene are proud to be a part of a different world where we know and understand (almost) everything about our hardware and code everything from scratch. If a newbie wants to be a part of it, he/she should walk the same way like we do.
The road I went was ripping every piece of usable code I could find in the computer magazines I had, and then i would try to patch that together to a demo. And after a few months I joined a group where the other coders would help out with code for setting up raster interrupts, drawing lines etc.
I enjoyed being able to actually make something which looked like a demo and as time went by I actually learned how most of the code worked and could do more stuff on my own.
But whatever, have fun up there on your high horses. |
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Ervin
Registered: May 2008
Posts: 14 |
I think there are some fundamental "libraries" or "routines" such as loader, cruncher, music player, etc. which IMHO are not expected to be re-created by every coder. (AFAIK there are very few coders out there whose music routine AND loader routine would be an "industry standard" at the same time, am I right?) But where is the border? If I use a piece of downloaded example code for raster stabilizing but then make my own raster trick, or I use an example 3D routine for point calculations but use my own filler - then am I a coder? :) |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1065 |
Using other people's code is good, it's one of the best ways to learn new things. That implies sitting down and understanding it though, not just pasting it.
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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
Retyping (rather than copying and pasting) other people's code is a nice way to learn how to do stuff IME. It encourages you to consider the significance of every opcode, while (hopefully) guiding you along a good route instead of forcing you to find your way in the dark all by yourself. The retype-and-think method coupled with reading the VIC article was how I first understood how stable rasters could be produced for example.
Speaking of the VIC article, wouldn't it be nice to have it on the Wiki as well, instead of just as an off-site link? The more places it's on the better, I reckon. |
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2914 |
I want to find out if the guys that had connection issues a while ago - is it still a problem now?
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Conjuror
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 168 |
It fine for me now.
Connection is so slow I can't stream radio6581 but thats another issue.
Cheers
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11293 |
Quote:Using other people's code is good, it's one of the best ways to learn new things. That implies sitting down and understanding it though, not just pasting it.
that very much sums it up (and says in other words what skate said). i am also very much against cut and paste coders who just throw together other peoples code and dont have the slightest clue about it.
spoonfeeding people too much source just leads to things like this . if you dont even want to learn, go away. tis not for you. |
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plagueis
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2007
Posts: 48 |
As a relatively new coder (I've been going for 2 years now) on the c64 I can certainly attest to what methods work best for me and my mind, and I can venture a guess on what would be healthier for other novice coders...or at least the vast majority.
What Skate and Groepaz said couldn't be more correct. In the beginning, with the absolute basics, looking at source can be of benefit. But I'm speaking of the absolute basics, such as clearing the screen, simple looping, and changing the border colors, etc. After one reaches the level of proficiency of making simple intros, showing character sets on the screen, raster bars...then you ought to be able to code an effect after someone gives you a basic procedural algorithm and nothing more. Your own knowledge of the opcodes ought to suffice to fill in the rest, and you can optimize your code later. It took me a bit of difficult uphill climbing to reach this point, but the reward is worth it in the end and I think that's a big part of what the demoscene is (should be) about.
Often it takes me longer to analyze a 2000 line source and understand all its functionality than it would to just think up my own implementation and code it up from scratch. Not only would I learn more from that, but there's a possibility I could come up with new tricks and my own unique approach to the effect...or a completely new effect.
The most valuable document on the Codebase is Puterman's demo coding tutorial. It covers everything a beginner should know, first by being very verbose about how to code demo basics, then it moves on to discuss the more difficult routines in a more topical manner, expecting the coder to fill in the rest using his brain. I've heard it's left some people wanting more at that point. However, I think the spoon is removed from the novice's mouth at just the right place in that document. If you can't code those effects based on the descriptions given, you shouldn't be messing with them yet.
I'm at the point now where i want to know about more advanced techniques, but I've found it more valuable to go back in the CSDb archives and mirror threads regarding techniques such as VSP, FPP Plasma, etc. and save them to my HDD for personal reference. I have found discussions between HCL, Oswald, Jackasser, Graham, etc to be more valuable than huge sources on the Codebase due to the fact that they don't spoil all my fun by giving away the goodies line by line. They talk about the steps required to pull off effects and a little bit is discussed about the timing, but not enough to spoil my own research, just enough to stimulate me in the right direction. In my opinion we need more of that in the Wiki. I will say though, that now that I've gotten 2 years of VIC/6510 coding under my belt, I can look at source and understand it much faster than I could a year ago. But I can safely say, it's not the best route for a c64 coding beginner. |
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1570 |
Hmmm...I'm getting a weird error when posting a new article on Codebase:
Quote:Error 403
We're sorry, but we could not fulfill your request for /doku.php on this server.
Your Internet Protocol address is listed on a blacklist of addresses involved in malicious or illegal activity. See the listing below for more details on specific blacklists and removal procedures.
Your technical support key is: xxx-xxx-xxx-xxx
You can use this key to fix this problem yourself.
If you are unable to fix the problem yourself, please contact and be sure to provide the technical support key shown above.
WTF? |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1641 |
Thanks for reporting. I will look into it.
//FTC |
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