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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4732 |
Release id #248202 : AIrrested
I'll help the moderators: Drama posts go here: |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 465 |
people losing jobs is altogether a separate problem.
we are not a commercial industry, we can afford to see it from a purely philosophical (if not pleasantly irrational - just like art is) standpoint. but some of you mix the two up :) |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 465 |
i'd offer you my two grosze, but i'm not in the visual arts world. musicians have it slightly better, working in abstract instead of representative. so the parallels would be inaccurate. |
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CopAss
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 21 |
@raistlin: It also affected photographers, stock photography "photographers" practically disappeared. Models don't have to pay, nor do photographers. AI does it completely for free.
AI is also increasingly used in print advertising, and smaller companies have also made the switch. |
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4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285 |
Quote:we are not a commercial industry
Exactly. Which is why we don't need to mess with this technology that is precisely aiming to circumvent creatives altogether, and leave only executives / producers with toys. |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 686 |
Sure it's going to cost people their jobs, but you can't stop that. Companies want profit and care nothing of their workers, bottom line.
Ask former Disney animators when everything started to be shipped off to Asian studios, almost all of them lost their jobs, and had to change careers.
Now people are losing their jobs to robots too, is any of that going to stop? Nope, Robots don't need pensions, health care or sleep.
None of this would be, if it wasn't a society based purely on exploitation and profits. It's never been any different, these trends have been since the industrial revolution, the turn around is just faster now as technology progresses at a faster rate. |
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4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285 |
I understand. What marks the spot where I draw the line is the fact that prompt-to-image tools change the very essence of visual creative work. I see unbroken line (yes sometimes jagged, but a line) from the first cave paintings all the way to Koalapainter, Deluxe Paint, onto Blender or Photoshop.
I mean, it's one thing to force the artist to use a graphic tablet or a mouse instead of chalk and coal. But forcing him to verbally prompt the machine for the result (the machine that has been fed his own past artistic output and the artistic output of everyone everywhere since the dawn of time), to circumvent his eye-brain-hand talent and training if he wants to keep his/her job is something fundamentally new and different from everything that came before.
I'm aware that nobody can stop this. I was hoping we could perhaps keep it outside of this tightly knit, almost incestuous group inside which there is zero economic interest. |
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Bitbreaker
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 508 |
I try to light up another perspective on this topic: If people want to achieve goals with minimum effort and consider cheating a viable way, they will cheat. Even rules like workstatges will not stop this, as then just workstages are faked, and if tools can detect AI, then workstages are faked even further. Funny enough there should be some breakeven-point where cheating costs even more skills and energy than simply drawing your own stuff :-D The reason for putting so much energy into something, has reasons and speak for a high need that is worth doing so.
So it is about profit (and as a consequence power one gains), the personal profit, be it by money, by fame, by attention. This is pretty much selfish and this usually comes with a deficit in empathy and a lack of fairness if it is achieved by all means. I can fully understand, that this is upsetting, and i understand the urge to bring those people to fall.
There is maybe not much one can do to stop such people (or inventions), but we can distance ourself from that by doing it different, by not selling our soul, our values, being transparent, being an idol for others and by that not ending up as emotionally wrecked. If we start fighting, we start war, and that always means to loose, we loose ourselves in pointless discussions, loose our dignity and inb the end feed those who need it with attention, it does not always matter if it is positive or negative.
If people want to give least effort for maximum profit, those people want to cheat, to lie, to cause drama, it is their own shortcomings that is responsible for that. Maybe feeling sorry for what they do is a better option? |
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4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285 |
@Bitbreaker:
At first, I had this idea that if people communicate, this will get settled. I wasn't aware that this non-material economic, this fame capital balance you pointed out was so important to some people that they will succumb to cheating their own friends. I thought, we don't have to "forbid" anything because the artists themselves will sport this "chivalry", this solidarity. After all, it's in their best interest in the long run. But I guess, with the advancement of AI, the allure grew to a point where everyone suddenly felt he/she can/should portray him/herself as an artist.
So with that naivety out of the window, I can fully endorse your words.
However, if and when this situation wears out the old gfx masters, if and when compos find themselves bare of great gfx artwork and AI prevails, it will be to late to act. Just a thing to bear in mind. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
So the "Hiking Home For Christmas" thread was closed due to everything going off-topic .. and now the conversation continues here.
I'm not seeing things moving forward and I'm not even sure what the argument is any more ..
Pal's comments align with what I said early on: while workstages are nice, and indeed needed for many compos, you can't really enforce them. And while we can suspect AI in some cases, or wiring, etc.. there's rarely hard proof.
So while recommendations for what we'd like people to do, in an ideal world, can be made... we also have to accept that not everyone likes to work that way. And I fully understand Pal on that. As a coder, I don't want to show people the often chaotic way that I make something..! |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 275 |
" As a coder, I don't want to show people the often chaotic way that I make something..!"
hehe. i for myself can also confirm this. dont want to see groepaz puking again because of my code :D |
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