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Forums > C64 Coding > Holy Grails
2018-03-18 10:10
Krill

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2839
Holy Grails

I've been wondering about them, with some having been finally discovered, others not yet, and some probably going to remain in the realm of the impossible forever.

I'm speaking of things like:
- 320x200x16 graphics without restrictions
- Crash-free all-direction hardware scrolling
- Digi replay of 8-bit samples at one register write per sample and without requiring cycle accuracy

on standard vanilla hardware, of course.

Some examples of discovered grails are:
- Cube rotating at 50 fps about 3 axes
- The 9th sprite (with some restrictions)
- On-the-fly standard GCR block read+decode+checksumming

As for definition, they all satisfy some measure of being perfect or optimal or being possible after all, with no further improvements required, possible or necessary. But i'm not so sure if that definition holds water with regard to some of the examples i listed. :D

The question is, what other Holy Grails are there, already discovered or still elusive?
What are your pet grails you've been chasing after for decades or have found eventually? :)
 
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2018-03-27 17:08
Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017
Quote: Quoting Oswald
that's by Bubis, and in 4x4 :)
Could someone tell me in which demo/release this 4x4-tunnel can be found? Thx!


error 23, the blue tunnel.
2018-03-27 17:13
Copyfault

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 466
Quoting Oswald
error 23, the blue tunnel.
Ah in E23! Thanks!!
2018-03-27 17:16
Rastah Bar

Registered: Oct 2012
Posts: 336
Quoting Krill
I think Crossbow used something like that to have more than 320 pixels worth of char/bitmap graphics per rasterline.

Which demo is that? Could it be combined with displaying 26 char rows?

How about machine learning stuff? F.e. games with enemies that become better over time. (Not that most games aren't already challenging enough ...)
2018-03-27 17:18
Copyfault

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 466
Another holy grail for me (which is already found):
- JPG decoding on C64 (like in Juddpeg)

As I'm really far off from anything concerning SID/music coding, I'm wondering if there's even a faint chance of
- MP3 decoding on C64

in the same way as that JPEG-decoder, i.e. reading in a real mp3-file, maybe doing some pre-rendering stuff (but only on the real thing/vanilla hw) and then playing the music.

Afaik there are hw solutions, but a pure sw solution I know not -> holy grail for me ;)
2018-03-27 21:21
Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017
sure c64 can do anything, given you give it enough time, and backstorage :)
2018-03-27 21:41
Frantic

Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1627
Drone Processor Preview uses machine learning of the Genetic Programming variety. It was never finished though.
2018-03-27 22:29
CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034
Quote: d016 hires / multi split without bugs is nothing impossible. maybe 1 char needed to left empty if switch is delayed by a few pixels as Jacky explains. The main complexity is on the fly speedcode generator for the split in Wotnau's case.

Yeah you can explain it. Congratulations. Can you please provide some links of Graffity or other group demos? Thanx
2018-03-27 23:53
Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017
Quote: Yeah you can explain it. Congratulations. Can you please provide some links of Graffity or other group demos? Thanx

I can even show you, splitting d016 happens naturally without bugs:



what was hard is, to code the code generator, that will generate speedcode for the article pages, that will do the splits as needed.


Justintime
2018-03-28 06:32
CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034
As I expected I see one split. But I must admit it looks perfect so you've got point there.
2018-03-28 07:07
Peacemaker

Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 243
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VyaY2luU1nuDQj3K4RfE9O_xMgMbrs..

4 d016 splits. no rocket science =)
the problem with d016 splits is ofcourse the badline. a way to avoiding is using d011.
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