Log inRegister an accountBrowse CSDbHelp & documentationFacts & StatisticsThe forumsAvailable RSS-feeds on CSDbSupport CSDb Commodore 64 Scene Database
You are not logged in 
CSDb User Forums


Forums > C64 Coding > The first demo to feature...
2020-04-03 19:43
crl

Registered: Mar 2020
Posts: 19
The first demo to feature...

There are quite a few landmarks in the demo history of the C64.

One of groundbreaking moments for me was the invention of FLI, which first appeared in Beyond Force's Charlatan.

Does anyone know who cam first with the following inventions, and what other inventions are in your opinion groundbreaking?

* Open sideborders
* DYCP
* DYSP
* DYPP
* Hardware scrolling
 
... 20 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....
 
2020-04-04 19:13
JackAsser

Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1680
Quote: It’s pretty damn close if it’s not. I code all my demos on PC in emulator and don’t believe I’ve seen an issue yet where something looked different on final testing on a real C64.

The pixel pipeline is what makes some fx 4px delayed etc. It’s notoriously hard to spot any differences and even harder to exploit it. Crossbow did however in his almost general upscroller in the lower border. Also effects like 49px or was it 50px wide sprites are subject to this etc.
2020-04-04 19:23
tlr

Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1313
Quote: Hehe ofc not! Would be nice to have a proper die-reverse engineering of it. Also the internal 40*12 bit memory and how that is updated needs proper explanatiom.

That would be interesting, but a visual6502 style die-reversing isn't enough. A lot of the effects have to do with drive strengths of individual transistors and the fact that NMOS drives asymetrically (pull-ups).
2020-04-04 19:53
The Human Code Machine

Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 106
Quote: First 50fps 304x192px (visible) 3-screen diagonal bitmap scroller (Delirious 11) ;-)

As JackAsser says, though, all these things I don’t see that we can claim - without having 10million different categories.


Did that 2 years earlier with streaming data from disk in Concert by Performers. I did scroll the black borders too.
2020-04-04 20:27
Groepaz

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 9318
Quote:
It’s pretty damn close if it’s not. I code all my demos on PC in emulator and don’t believe I’ve seen an issue yet where something looked different on final testing on a real C64.

the things that are not perfect yet probably do not really matter to any real world code. and you see related differences between C64s (VICIIs) too.
2020-04-04 21:22
Raistlin

Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 212
Quote: Did that 2 years earlier with streaming data from disk in Concert by Performers. I did scroll the black borders too.

Ah, I actually thought that one was doing the "stepping" method of scrolling - 1 pixel horizontally one frame and 1 pixel diagonally the next? So that the "diagonal is aligned to the double pixels...

The harder hurdle for full 312x192 diagonal scrolling with infinite repeats is of course squeezing it all into memory.
2020-04-04 22:04
JackAsser

Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1680
Infinite circular scroller, say no more! ;)
2020-04-05 00:11
Krill

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 1475
Quoting JackAsser
Where is the line. Everything I code I always aim for some world’s first
I'd say the line is between discovering/inventing (hardware-centric) techniques that serve as primitives/building blocks for effects, and those effects that "merely" build upon/combine these primitives.

So i'd file things like open (side-)borders, hardware scrolling (VSP), 4x4 chunky FLI, Graham-flex/zoom, Ninja NMI handler dispatch, N+1 sprites over FLI, diverse sample-replay methods, etc. under the former, and the various niche records and firsties mentioned here under the latter.
2020-04-05 00:29
Raistlin

Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 212
Quote: Quoting JackAsser
Where is the line. Everything I code I always aim for some world’s first
I'd say the line is between discovering/inventing (hardware-centric) techniques that serve as primitives/building blocks for effects, and those effects that "merely" build upon/combine these primitives.

So i'd file things like open (side-)borders, hardware scrolling (VSP), 4x4 chunky FLI, Graham-flex/zoom, Ninja NMI handler dispatch, N+1 sprites over FLI, diverse sample-replay methods, etc. under the former, and the various niche records and firsties mentioned here under the latter.


Those are "just" hardware firsties though .. I'd also be interested to know the first DYCP, DYPP, etc .. it's not -all- about the VIC ;-p
2020-04-05 00:44
Krill

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 1475
Quoting Raistlin
Those are "just" hardware firsties though .. I'd also be interested to know the first DYCP, DYPP, etc .. it's not -all- about the VIC ;-p
I specifically mentioned techniques not for VIC as well.

DYCP/DYPP etc. are instances of "soft" effects, as in of what you see, not how it's done under the hood. There are about a zillion ways to implement those, occupying different spots in the design space with the pros and cons those bring.

So yeah, that does escalate quickly when trying to enumerate any and all record and firsty.
2020-04-05 09:15
macx

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 215
Hjørne Tilpasset Tekst Med Farve Cyklus (H.T.T.M.F.C.)

in Gammal Man from F*A*I*C.
Previous - 1 | 2 | 3 - Next
RefreshSubscribe to this thread:

You need to be logged in to post in the forum.

Search the forum:
Search   for   in  
All times are CET.
Search CSDb
Advanced
Users Online
wbochar
Yazoo/Arsenic
Guests online: 53
Top Demos
1 Coma Light 13  (9.7)
2 Uncensored  (9.7)
3 Edge of Disgrace  (9.7)
4 Comaland 100%  (9.6)
5 Unboxed  (9.6)
6 The Shores of Reflec..  (9.6)
7 Lunatico  (9.5)
8 Remains  (9.5)
9 NGC 1277 100%  (9.5)
10 Wonderland XII  (9.4)
Top onefile Demos
1 Dawnfall V1.1  (9.6)
2 Listen to Your Eyes  (9.6)
3 MD202006 - Get Well ..  (9.6)
4 The Tuneful Eight [u..  (9.5)
5 Smile to the Sky  (9.5)
6 Crystal Gazer  (9.5)
7 Instinct  (9.5)
8 Coro(l)na Nuthouse  (9.5)
9 Rewind  (9.5)
10 Bad Boy  (9.5)
Top Groups
1 PriorArt  (9.6)
2 Performers  (9.5)
3 Booze Design  (9.4)
4 Fossil  (9.4)
5 Censor Design  (9.4)
Top Sysops
1 Optic Freeze  (10)
2 pcollins  (9.9)
3 Pudwerx  (9.8)
4 Aycee  (9.6)
5 Taper  (9.3)

Home - Disclaimer
Copyright © No Name 2001-2020
Page generated in: 0.041 sec.