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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 716 |
Screen limits
Once when i got myself a C= monitor, I made some tests to see what the actual limits were. Keeping in mind all the bugs i left in Royal Arte, after this i would never have to leave any visual bugs because of not seing them.
But now in EMU-age, the same horrible bugs appear again in many demos. Vice only shows 272 x 384 pixels, and people appearantly start to think that's the way to go. And it suxx big time!
So when i found my old screen tests yesterday, i thought maybe i should put this up here. I also had some info about sprite-limits in the borders. Let's get started.
Screen limits
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Vertically:
First visible line: 8 (d012 = 8)
Last visible line: 12b (d012 = 2b)
That makes 292 visible lines totally.
Transfered to sprite positions we get..
spt-pos 12a: one line visible in lower border.
spt-pos 12b: one line visible in upper border.
Horizontally:
Left border: 48 visible pixels (6 chars).
Right border: 36 visible pixels (4.5 chars).
That makes 404 pixels, right.
Sprite bugs in left border:
All sprites invisible at positions 1f8-1ff.
spt7 invisible at pos <= 1ce.
spt8 invisivle at pos <= 1ee.
Sprite bugs in right border:
spt1 stretch bug at pos >= 14b.
spt2 stretch bug at pos >= 15b.
Bug above first line at pos => 163: spt 3,4,5.
Bug on last line at pos => 164: spt 3,4,5.
Ok. I think that's all. Does anyone have other specs? Please don't post if you have a lowsy TV-set, they always sukk. Did i get those sprite-bugs correctly? Sounds totally wierd :). And finally: DON'T RELEASE before you checked your demo against this spec >:E. |
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 716 |
@Clarence: I wish that was the only bug :). Btw. check out the next issue of Attitude for a bug-free version :). |
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Clarence
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 119 |
Cool! :) Looking forward for it...
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
HCL, I have swallowed my own language when I first met with sideborder effects, and it was like that for long years. But today IMHO if you take an effect and the "only" thing you do with it is extend its size (to the sideborders.. sometimes the effects are even smaller to help make it possible) thats not as cool as coming up with something *new*. Lets take your plasma in Cycle. Its a breathtaking effect. But if you look at it from another point of view, you have an ugly resolution and almost no variety in the plasma, and all these restrictions "only" to make it fullscreen. Strange that an effect on sideborder is an excuse for lowres, while a "newschool" stuff has no excuse for being 4x4.
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hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474 |
well, we are living in strange times. "i dont care" and "How about coming up with something new"-comments coming from the plasma+tunnel coder who recently complained about how lame the scene has become |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1987 |
@Hollowman: Don't forget his mandatory vector cubes! =D
@Oswald: I hear what you say but also, if it is possible to extend an effect into the border without making the quality suffer, then I think you should go for that and not be a lazy coder. Although I am usually of the latter sort where as for example Krill and HCL are of the first sort. For instance, in +H2K most transitions are in the side border to get rid of weird and unmotivated border clipping that just look plain ugly. Krill also once told me this and I totally agree; if you still want to keep the border but get rid of that ugly clipping you can do it like the Reflex guys did it in Mathematica. |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
plasma and vector cubes: kewlest effects ever, especially in the sideborder! |
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 716 |
"Oswald: Just a comment about the plasma(s) in cycle.. Hmm, now i'm not sure which one you mean. However the first one uses a fli-timing with open sideborder. That makes it cool itself! Add many colors and nice movements.. what can you possibly complain about?! ;). And the second one, the AB-plasma.. Copying the routine from Crest and others, pulling it to the edge with a logo in it. Well, that's very much what c64-effect coding is all about, finding out a way to do something that noone has done before.
Now back to the topic for once. I was trying to start a discussion about the limits of the visible screen, possibly a quite short discussion. In what way do you think that you contribute to this discussion? By telling us that you don't *like* to come even close to those limits anyway?!??! |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 885 |
man.. i didnt have any time so far, but i'll really look up what limits i found for myself to use as maximum visible upper/lower border :) |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
A PC programmer once told me: "You know, what's cool about the C64 is that if you have a rasterbar, it starts from faaar left and goes to faaaar right, no visible black border like on PC". I kinda agree with that, if you don't see the start and end of the display area it gives it the feeling that there is no limit. |
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Zeus
Registered: Jun 2005
Posts: 16 |
@Graham
Well the Amiga has the same "problem".
I think that side border action is just sweet. To be honest: serious no border stuff separates men from the boys. If side border stuff is that simple, why didn´t it become that common? Maybe because it is quite a lot of work to do some multiplexers etc. Same goes for any other critical timing effect. (I luv cycle counting ;)) |
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