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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 716 |
Screen limits
Once when i got myself a C= monitor, I made some tests to see what the actual limits were. Keeping in mind all the bugs i left in Royal Arte, after this i would never have to leave any visual bugs because of not seing them.
But now in EMU-age, the same horrible bugs appear again in many demos. Vice only shows 272 x 384 pixels, and people appearantly start to think that's the way to go. And it suxx big time!
So when i found my old screen tests yesterday, i thought maybe i should put this up here. I also had some info about sprite-limits in the borders. Let's get started.
Screen limits
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Vertically:
First visible line: 8 (d012 = 8)
Last visible line: 12b (d012 = 2b)
That makes 292 visible lines totally.
Transfered to sprite positions we get..
spt-pos 12a: one line visible in lower border.
spt-pos 12b: one line visible in upper border.
Horizontally:
Left border: 48 visible pixels (6 chars).
Right border: 36 visible pixels (4.5 chars).
That makes 404 pixels, right.
Sprite bugs in left border:
All sprites invisible at positions 1f8-1ff.
spt7 invisible at pos <= 1ce.
spt8 invisivle at pos <= 1ee.
Sprite bugs in right border:
spt1 stretch bug at pos >= 14b.
spt2 stretch bug at pos >= 15b.
Bug above first line at pos => 163: spt 3,4,5.
Bug on last line at pos => 164: spt 3,4,5.
Ok. I think that's all. Does anyone have other specs? Please don't post if you have a lowsy TV-set, they always sukk. Did i get those sprite-bugs correctly? Sounds totally wierd :). And finally: DON'T RELEASE before you checked your demo against this spec >:E. |
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Ninja
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 404 |
Sounds good, Gunnar. Just where is the problem with displaying pixels which a standard c64 would never display. This can be useful for debugging, too, right? |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2839 |
What enthusi said. Also i cannot imagine the benefit in seeing more pixels than on the real thing, even not for debugging purposes. Do you have a good example? |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2839 |
Oh and well, debugging implies you're a coder, and then you can go and mod the VICE sourcecode yourself for your very own VICE debug edition with insanely huge borders. After my patch, that's just modding 4 #defines. :D |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
krill maybe I'm not wrong with stating I'm a coder, still I'm missing the knowledge needed to modify the Vice source.. :) |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 886 |
Quote: krill maybe I'm not wrong with stating I'm a coder, still I'm missing the knowledge needed to modify the Vice source.. :)
me too :( |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2839 |
Oh i was referring to changing screen sizes. In the modded source, in src/vicii/vicii-timings.c, find
#define VICII_SCREEN_PAL_FULL_LEFTBORDERWIDTH 0x30 /* actually 0x2e, but must be divisible by 8 */
#define VICII_SCREEN_PAL_FULL_RIGHTBORDERWIDTH 0x24
#define VICII_PAL_FULL_FIRST_DISPLAYED_LINE (0x08 - VICII_PAL_OFFSET)
#define VICII_PAL_FULL_LAST_DISPLAYED_LINE 0x12c
and change to whatever, compile, done. The hardest bit is to get your compiler environment running, but there are docs for that. :) |
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Ninja
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 404 |
Well, you can easily check some stable raster in a non-visible area, for example. Still, why do you need to foresee a reason. Now you are at a point where it can easily be implemented (normal borders, big borders, overkill borders). If in hundred years somebody for an obscure reason needs the last feature, he would need to get the source and compile it on his own. If he is like me, this is no fun on a P233 ;) But well, your mileage may vary... |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2839 |
In a hundred years nobody would use some ancient 233 MHz computer to compile stuff, i reckon. :)
Anyways, i won't implement that, but feel free to do so. That's what open source is for, everybody adds what he needs etc. :)
(And the stable raster thing can be easily tackled by moving stuff to a visible border area, since after all the timing is the same except for line 0 - plus you can have a loop etc. to postpone your inc $d021/dec $d021 stuff until the visible part and... well, whatever - i just fail to see sensible reasons for hyperborders. :) |
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Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
Quote: Oh i was referring to changing screen sizes. In the modded source, in src/vicii/vicii-timings.c, find
#define VICII_SCREEN_PAL_FULL_LEFTBORDERWIDTH 0x30 /* actually 0x2e, but must be divisible by 8 */
#define VICII_SCREEN_PAL_FULL_RIGHTBORDERWIDTH 0x24
#define VICII_PAL_FULL_FIRST_DISPLAYED_LINE (0x08 - VICII_PAL_OFFSET)
#define VICII_PAL_FULL_LAST_DISPLAYED_LINE 0x12c
and change to whatever, compile, done. The hardest bit is to get your compiler environment running, but there are docs for that. :)
I never succeded in preparing proper environment 'by hand' to recompile vice , but dev-cpp eventually allowed me to recompile vice :)
changind those defines is relatively easy , I wanted to change amount of sid to 4 so I could listen to Rayden's 4SID music but those stereo-sid definitions are relatively 'hardcoded' and would need lotsa changes to work (At first glance of course).
and BTW worst case with vice is their devel policies .. VICE is not real open-source , because they don't care about other ppl making fixes/enhancements (so not team decides , only particular ppl what to atually add) and additionally they don't inform submitters that their patches were rejected/accepted/whatever. quite strange/stupid/whateva and making lotsa unofficial versions which can't share enhancements because of statically linked modules into each exe instead of splitting into loadable libraries where possible (e.g. win32/linux)
www.vulture.c64.org |
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Mantiz
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2006
Posts: 36 |
Anyone else with the skills and the right tools willing to help doing this compile for the rest of us? Obviously we are at least a few who would use this for various reasons, so it won't be done in vain. I can even get it hosted if that is the problem.
I don't think the use of a certain tool should have to be justified to anyone, I would for example just out curiosity use this to see what's going on behind the scenes, so to speak. And to exactly know where your raster is outside the visible screen is maybe not the most usable feature but I can't see what would be wrong with it. Usually it's good to know where you have your beam. :) |
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