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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 512 |
Event id #2643 : Plain PETSCII Graphics Competition 2017
question for the organizers:
in wild petscii compo you say it's allowed to use ECM. but with ECM only the first 64 chars are useable, so basically only letters and numbers. that sux.
so is it possible to pick up any chars you like from the CBM font and copy them into a new charset in the first 64 positions? or that's against all the rules on Earth? |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Yeah, that would be quite nice if that was allowed, since it would open up a lot of possibilities for effects. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
just dont call it plain petscii please. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2839 |
What is "plain" PETSCII then? I haven't heard that term before. :)
But yes, ECM with copied chars surely isn't "plain". :D |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Plain enough for me if the char gfx isn't changed at all. |
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lft
Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 369 |
Maybe "Extended PETSCII"? Since ECM stands for Extended Color Mode according to the Programmer's Reference Guide. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2839 |
Not sure if that's all a bit too artificial. If there are different background colours AND copied chars, why not have something like PETSCII copied to a hires bitmap? So you can pick any of the 256 ROM characters and have arbitrary background colours per character. |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 512 |
so today we invented PEETSCII and HIRETSCII. perhaps it's really too much for a single day :) |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
I think the line should be drawn with SWAPSCII, since it's char mode just like PLAINSCII, just with the char positions swapped. BITMAPSCII is a whole another mode. What's next - SPRITESCII? |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 512 |
Quote: I think the line should be drawn with SWAPSCII, since it's char mode just like PLAINSCII, just with the char positions swapped. BITMAPSCII is a whole another mode. What's next - SPRITESCII?
JEEESUSCII! |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11110 |
Quote:What is "plain" PETSCII then?
whatever you can put into a SEQ file and then display on a BBS. (this implies $d021=0) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1289 |
Quoting Groepazthis implies $d021=0
I believe majority of entries used to violate it, not without benefits for the eye ;) |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2066 |
IIRC we sorted out what's considered "plain" some years ago with the motto of the first competition, a quote by grump... erh groepaz: "If you can PRINT it, it's PETSCII" ;)
Edit: I know purists frown about that, mostly BBS nostalgics. But $D021 is explicitly allowed to be set other than 0 via ze rulez, same procedure as last competition. This compo might provide some BBSes with gfx but that would be a side-effect not the compo's aim.
Indeed WiLD is WiLD is WiLD, so it's also (even explicitly) allowed to use sprites, e.g. as overlay or underlay. If you port CharROM tiles to sprites, you don't have the problems you mentioned with limitations of ECM. If you totally exgaggerate, e.g. use complex MC sprite bitmaps having nothing to do with PETSCII anymore, orga won't punish you either, but voters might :)
Having pointed out that once more, back to the question in the first posting: What Zmasher has in mind, is a totally legitimate and interesting WiLD approach.
@PETSCII mixed with other formats terminology: MultiFrameSCIISprOverlaySCIIOpenBorderSplitSCIIAnimaSCIISlideShowSCII...? |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1627 |
Goa Brudbilder had the Quad Char mode... :) I am also craving for border-PETSCII |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2066 |
As of yet, I can only recall top/bottom border extensions as in Mermaid's Genesis Project "PETSCII Skull Intro" (strictly speaking bottom sprites ain't really CharROM tiles anymore due to ghostbyte) |
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Perplex
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 254 |
There's clearly a market for a PETSCII-variant Graphics Mode Invention Competition. |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 512 |
what's your entry, PERPLESCII? :) |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 512 |
I'll try SWAPSCII/BITMASCII/WHATEVERELSCII next compo. Now enjoy my proof-of-concept of... multicolor petscii: Petscii logo POC |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
@TheRyk: Thanks for the clarifications, and I guess I could have just read the rules, where it basically says that anything goes. But to please the purists, I have now decided to see if I can do something with the ROM charset as it is. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1289 |
Imho Smasher's logo is as pure as hires PETSCII using nonzero $d021 and should be treated equally with the rest, being inside the compo. Moreover it's great proof of concept and looks cool. What's the big difference between modifying $d021, $d022 and $d023? Charset is unchanged ;) |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2066 |
Modfying background does not change look of characters/tiles.
Let me assure everyone I'm totally as enthusiastic about Zmasher's proof of concept as everyone else.
But what's so bad about winning WiLD compo instead of plain? :P |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2839 |
A wild PETSCII appeared! |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933 |
Quote: Imho Smasher's logo is as pure as hires PETSCII using nonzero $d021 and should be treated equally with the rest, being inside the compo. Moreover it's great proof of concept and looks cool. What's the big difference between modifying $d021, $d022 and $d023? Charset is unchanged ;)
Plain PETSCII in ECM mode should get teh same treatment. Let's positively discriminate all modes, then. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1289 |
Quoting TheRykModfying background does not change look of characters/tiles.
Switching to MC does not modify charset, only reads it different - looks shouldn't matter at all. Imho not quite an argument ;) |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1989 |
Quote: Quoting TheRykModfying background does not change look of characters/tiles.
Switching to MC does not modify charset, only reads it different - looks shouldn't matter at all. Imho not quite an argument ;)
Like PETSCII-fli? |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2839 |
Quoting JackAsserLike PETSCII-fli? Brings to mind the original PET-FLI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktUguF1TnJk - almost indistinguishable from actual bitmap graphics. Almost. :) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
thats a nice trick to achieve bitmap on pet :) |
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Marvin
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2003
Posts: 8 |
Quote: Like PETSCII-fli?
I've actually been working on a PETSCFLII for a couple of days now... (:
It's a fun format with all the drawbacks of PETSCII and FLI combined. |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2066 |
Quote: Plain PETSCII in ECM mode should get teh same treatment. Let's positively discriminate all modes, then.
quoting ze rules
Quote:
a) Plain PETSCII (= main competition C64 Graphics)
"Plain" in my definition means an executable .PRG file displaying 1000 bytes screen RAM using CBM Character-ROM font and 1000
nibbles color RAM, nothing else, no ECM, no sprites, no interlace effects, no splits, no animation, no scrolling, no open borders,
no hankypanky of any sort. ...
b) WILD PETSCII (= side competition C64 Wild):
Anthing using the C64 Character ROM (<- only rule here) that violates any of the rules above,
so you can use border effects, sprites, ECM, do an animation of several frames, scrolling... or whatever you like :)
ECM's explicitly in WiLD, to me it does not make sense to treat MC differently, it's sort of hankypanky, so it's WiLD ;) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1289 |
So rules should explicitly exclude $d020/$d021 as well because it violates file scheme ;) |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2066 |
maybe they should, but they do quite the opposite :P
Quote:Background and screen color ($d020/$d021) can be picked by competitors, black is beautiful, though
So black is recommended, nothing more, nothing less.
No one said it's a BBS gfx compo.
However, we've had great art picking other values, e.g. $0C, for $d021 last time.
Perhaps we should have another philosophical debate before there's any 20?? compo. ;)
I see your points and read any sort of suggestion/criticism with interest, but this time, I feel it's better to defend the rules as they were set for the remaining 48+something hours. |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 512 |
yeah, let's stop chatting about the rules. if something must be changed/adjusted it will be in next petscii compo, not this one.
I'm feeling somehow guilty: I cracked Jammer's music compo with my midi tune, and I caused some troubles in ZeRyk's petscii one. if someone is thinking about organizing a new CSDb compo, well... good luck! :) |
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chancer
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 342 |
have 2 pics done, but using C64 ASCII Art Editor
c64 ascii art editor (pc) and there isn't really a straight forward export function. e.g. I tried putting loading the file into a seq editor.
both are made in layers, I could submit and upload the c64 file later I guess.
anyone else use this editor ? TIA |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1289 |
Quoting ZeSmasherI cracked Jammer's music compo with my midi tune, and I caused some troubles in ZeRyk's petscii one.
You have to maintain your cracker reputation so it's a way to go! :D |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2066 |
OK, time's up.
Thx 2 all competitors, the mere amount and quality of entries is an honour and makes me and probably many other PETSCII gourmets happy!
Thx also 2 all posters in this thread and motivating commenters in the entries.
Was hoping to get sth more than one entry by myself done, as I've got a few days off - but alas, it wasn't meant to be.
I'm off ripping and getting this compo's voting disk done, might take a few days, though, I'll keep you posted, no worries, voting's gonna be open for some 10 days after the tool is out. Gonna be pretty much similar procedure as 2013.
Cheers
Ryk |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Great compo! Extremely impressed with all the creativity in the scene. |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2066 |
Voting is on and votes are accepted till 9th of Nov 2017, 23:59:59 CEST.
Check out Devoted Voting Engine 2017
Also read the .TXT in the zip for more info on Top 5, WiLD etc.
Cheers
Ryk |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
"Self-votings will be cleared from the calculation automatically" - nice and elegant way of solving any drama about selfvoting. |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933 |
Pfew, the crack intro music compo is free of such corruption. |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2066 |
Just to keep you informed, votes are calculated,
results to be published in 2 more weeks time,
hope y'all can stand the tension ;)
Cheers
Ryk |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Damn, forgot to (self)vote /o\
But looking forward 2 da rezults. |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2066 |
Top 5 have been rykie-leak-ed, read all about it in Vandalism News #67
Family matters - it really matters a lot to me and kept me from finishing results presentation for Syntax as planned. But of course the other results exist too, please have some more patience, when the top entries slideshow is finished, all results (also WiLD) will be published - in November |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11110 |
pah, we will booze that family nonsense out of your head next time we meet! \m/ |
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Marq
Registered: Sep 2011
Posts: 47 |
There are multiple timezones where it's still November! :) |
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Shine
Registered: Jul 2012
Posts: 327 |
I am pretty sure Ryker ment "December" and wrote accidentally "November".
So real life should have the highest priority of course. I wish you all the best! |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2066 |
November's got only 30 days? /o\ That's not enough!
Just kidding, sorry for delay, some more testing of top results show, then it's gonna be released, i.e. tonight if real hw testing does not show surprises
EDIT The waiting has come to an end...
Plain PETSCII Compo 2017 Results Slide Show
Congratulations also to WiLD winner Cruzer and thx to all competitors, voters, Jazzcat, fieserwolf, marq, my mum, my wife, my daughter...
PS: The lottery among voters having filled out all completely is not forgotten, moreover, I'm planning to ship some prizes to top 3 in both categories (as Mermaid won twice and I don't wanna give myself a prize, that's Mermaid, Wile Coyote and the USER in plain compo and Cruzer, Lobo and Dr. TerrorZ in WiLD, these guys please send me your addresses so I can send prizes hopefully this year) |
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Marq
Registered: Sep 2011
Posts: 47 |
Thanks once more for your efforts! |
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chancer
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 342 |
nice, but sadly I notice some up / down voting purposely going on.
pity a few folk aren't as creative elsewhere.. or maybe they went into politics ;-) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11110 |
ah the annual voting drama :) |
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chancer
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 342 |
I just don't like the motives behind some of the voting, thats all.. much like some parties where you think a weaker entry got a higher score because of beer goggles or something. it's not a new thing, had it years ago with hektic, and folks claiming a #1 and suppressing the version we did, yet begging for the original themselves..lol |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
I agree, the results are pretty mixed. Results looks like party voting. |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 444 |
I tripple checked the results / votings file. Didn't find any chancer or Oswald in the list of people who voted. I guess you both must have used another handle then or my eyes are playing tricks on me?
Anyway: if you really want to have an in-depth discussion why someone voted what, it'd be easier if you just point it out directly. Shouldn't be that much of a problem with public votes. |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2066 |
I don't really see what's dramatic. If we only take public CSDb votes, I agree, there's a very different outcome, but not even all entries GOT 5 public votes. And if we look at CSDb votes (all voters) we currently find the same 5 entries in top 5 than in the final results - only with 3 and 4 changed.
Of course the no. of votes wasn't very high, and BECAUSE of the low figure of votes, every single vote had a lot of weight. But spider's got a point, not voting and then frowning about votes, is... a little like... errrhm... like staying in bed on election day and then complain about BrExit/government.
Maybe next time there'll be a totally different way of voting or I just take CSDb votes like many standalone competition do and which will result in drama, anyway? *shrug* |
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lft
Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 369 |
I for one appreciate the voting system. It's fun to review the entries on real hardware and spend a little time on making a fair judgement. I'd rather have a few sincere votes based on what the entries are supposed to look like, than a bunch of sloppy CSDb ratings based on screenshots. Well, I exaggerate, but you get the point.
That being said, there are a couple of areas where the voting engine could be improved. First of all, it would be nice if the votings-file could be loaded at startup if it exists. That way, you can go back and review your votes the next day, for instance.
Second, it should be possible to create/edit your personal top 5 from within the program.
Third, the names of the entries should be shown in the program. Currently only numbers are used, and this is annoying and a potential source of errors.
Fourth, and this is icing on the cake, how about thumbnails? It would be great in order to review one's votes without having to reload all the files. It doesn't have to be fancy, just a very simple black-or-white affair with one pixel per char, batch-converted from the entries.
But overall I'm very happy that there is a native voting system at all. Good job! |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11110 |
there should also be an option to randomize the votes |
