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Bitbreaker
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 500 |
Release id #171312 : Vandalism News #68
What a huge bunch of technical bullshit about the Performer's demo in there :-D The fake phong is realtime, the starfields are realtime and fullscreen (It would be 500 dots on the first one if no sprites used, 50fps). Vectors with samples are possible and was proven in Fantasmolytic already ;-) The cube in fullscreen is animated, true, but lossless and runs 870 frames long with 50fps, while loading the turn disk. Because: Profis machen das so.
Hope that is clear now. Now go and sharpen your analyzing skills :-D |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1989 |
Quote: What a huge bunch of technical bullshit about the Performer's demo in there :-D The fake phong is realtime, the starfields are realtime and fullscreen (It would be 500 dots on the first one if no sprites used, 50fps). Vectors with samples are possible and was proven in Fantasmolytic already ;-) The cube in fullscreen is animated, true, but lossless and runs 870 frames long with 50fps, while loading the turn disk. Because: Profis machen das so.
Hope that is clear now. Now go and sharpen your analyzing skills :-D
Yeah! :D That fake phong is awesome man. |
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 110 |
Haha... isometric scroller a la Sanxion. Who writes such bullshit? Do your homework better next time or don't do it at all.
PS. I'd really like to see the Horizon guys do realtime or even animated vectors while playing music which eats more than 90% of raster time and 44kb of memory;) |
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Danzig
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 428 |
*SHOCKED* the demo review seems to be complete vandalism |
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AlexC
Registered: Jan 2008
Posts: 293 |
Sadly it does not work correctly on my 1541 Ultimate I with 1.7b firmware. It loads correctly but after switching disks it hangs. Both with AR fastload enabled and disabled. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2839 |
That's what you get for not adding user modes. :)
But then, the notion of realtime vs. animation is not so binary, more like a continuum. Every decent coder knows that (simplifying a lot now) you fill as much memory as you can with look-up tables and the like, then do actual complex computation/decision-making for anything that's left.
So in the end it boils down to how many degrees of freedom you have, and if that can't be showcased well enough in the limited time an effect runs, alas, user mode to the rescue. :)
That said, i haven't read the article yet, and those technical analyses by third parties who don't peek into the actual code (or commentary during compos, for that matter), well, they regularly make me cringe, hard. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 552 |
Yeah, it's a shame but I was disappointed with the demo reviews ... I appreciate that they were "written live"... but it would've worked better with notes being taken live and then proper reviews being written after the fact... |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4594 |
The world of Demos in VN is full of bullshit, indeed. I think the author tries to be funny (calling the snake in X Marks the Spot "a turd" and Dart Vader flip disk part in The Star Wars demo "Dark Helmet" from Spaceballs, etc), but mostly he only describes what he sees on the screen, which we all know how it looks. Get someone that knows stuff about demos to write it, please. |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 638 |
Old Men in Used Cars - "A gif from the web [...]" :D :D :D Meh! |
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Archmage
Registered: Aug 2006
Posts: 185 |
The quality of the presentation is of course impeccable. But as others have pointed out - not so much the contents of the demo review section. I think VN would be better off with more qualified/less lame reviews that actually take the hard work put into these demos seriously. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11107 |
Demo reviews have been comedy since forever, i am shocked you are shocked =D
i think someone wanted to write the missing "rumours" section, and accidently wrote demo reviews =) |
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Perplex
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 254 |
Constructive criticism is of course more than welcome.
Wouldn't it be nice if one or more people just stepped up and said "I can do better, let me write!" though?
The content doesn't write itself, you know. |
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Bitbreaker
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 500 |
Quoting Perplex
The content doesn't write itself, you know.
Same goes for demos :-D It's not just slapping together a few animations and gifs :-D |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 552 |
Quote: Constructive criticism is of course more than welcome.
Wouldn't it be nice if one or more people just stepped up and said "I can do better, let me write!" though?
The content doesn't write itself, you know.
Dammit, fine, I'll do it...
X Marks the Spot: "Brilliant, unbeatable, best demo I ever saw" (10/10)
Unboxed: "Bah, GIFs everywhere" (1/10)
Star Wars Demo: "Too much Spock" (1/10)
Delirious 11: "I've literally been waiting 27 years for this awesomeness" (10/10)
And I think I speak for everyone with my honest, unbiased reviews. |
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Carrion
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317 |
I don't want to be cruel but there's more flaws to the issue...
examples?
well, the news sections says:
- carrion left shape
- carrion left Elysium to join bonzai.
well actually all above is true but more precisely would be to say:
- carrion left elysium in 2015
- carrion left shape to join bonzai.
there's few more flaws, and the ones that hurt my eyes are:
The Facet interview has the same question asked twice (the one about his favorite c64 artists). At first he mentions Joe and in second one he mentions Wrath Design as an artist (weird at least) did anyone proof-read (or edited) that?
in the article about crackers scene in Poland there also few thing that are wrong, but because I don't care about crackers scene I left it for you to find!
One thing I find really good is The Market sections. I will get back to this articles again as I need to have full picture of the game development market before deciding which of my 3 games I want to finish first. The Market has some nice insights that otherwise are not to be found on YT or sites like IndieRetro News.
I know all things I mention above is probably last thing you care about but in overall this issue looks, so, so. #67 was much better.
oh and btw:
I always appreciate the 1581 version
http://retronavigator.com/post/180032579998/1581-vn-time-again-.. |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1055 |
Quote: The world of Demos in VN is full of bullshit, indeed. I think the author tries to be funny (calling the snake in X Marks the Spot "a turd" and Dart Vader flip disk part in The Star Wars demo "Dark Helmet" from Spaceballs, etc), but mostly he only describes what he sees on the screen, which we all know how it looks. Get someone that knows stuff about demos to write it, please.
Bring back Nordic Scene Review! |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
Quote: What a huge bunch of technical bullshit about the Performer's demo in there :-D The fake phong is realtime, the starfields are realtime and fullscreen (It would be 500 dots on the first one if no sprites used, 50fps). Vectors with samples are possible and was proven in Fantasmolytic already ;-) The cube in fullscreen is animated, true, but lossless and runs 870 frames long with 50fps, while loading the turn disk. Because: Profis machen das so.
Hope that is clear now. Now go and sharpen your analyzing skills :-D
"Because: Profis machen das so."
profis have already made that cube realtime in NW. since when do profis use anims anyway ?:P |
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Bitbreaker
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 500 |
Its simply a brief proof, that it can be done better. Rendering delta into a single buffer at full framerate lossless can be much sexier than lossy codebook driven approaches. Nothing more, nothing less :-) |
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PAL
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 269 |
You take yourself too serious again :-)
The intro to the whole VN world of demos section:
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x2018 live demo reviews
Done real-time, looking at the stream when in the most insane man-flu ever hit when a nerd is due to travel and have fun with all his friends on the best scene party.
-----------------------------
Thought that was a fun twist to it as I had to stay at home in high fever and a real-man-flu :-)
Look at the first screen in this 3 of 3 live recordings from 2010... it is the basic...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdizFkv7omw
Lets have fun. I know I got too seriousness also in the past after this rush, slagging transitions and all that take so much time to create. I am inactive because of it, I want to have fun - not another full-time job. Monster and huge beasts of demos... When I pixeled a koala that was over 42 screens tall streaming live from one slow floppy disk-side with Perplex coding lots of effects - we were told it was so incredible lame, it took over 9 minutes to watch... hahaha.... on a c64 one floppy flawless... It is a never ending story I guess. Take care, all, you are some of the people I look at as my best friends inside a strange weird hobby and very narrow bunch of special people... |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4594 |
I wonder why people don't get the oppertunity to defend themselves in VN when attacked. In VN #60 The Shadow had lots of text full of bullshit and lies about Sixx/GP, and Jazzcat had one year to ask Sixx if he wanted to reply, but no. The same happened in this issue. The Shadow get's three pages in the "Headline News" to spread his opinions about CSDb and what happened four years ago, calling individuals unintelligent and a lot worse, and still no contact or oppertunity was made for the CSDb mods to reply. That is not being objective; it's really bad journalism.
1. It is not news. 2. It's biased bullshit. 3. It makes one wonder if there was a thought behind letting that text be published unanswered. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11107 |
it was fun reading though :=) |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4594 |
Quote: it was fun reading though :=)
Indeed. I am sure you loved his estimation of your intelligence. :D |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11107 |
well, i knew that part already, obviously :o) |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Carrion, yes agreed on the news section. Hope you can forgive me. Sorry you couldn't help with the Cracker's Scene article, as usual, we reached out to everyone for confirmations on some things I was unsure of. While we did receive some replies, not all unfortunately.
hedning, he (Shadow) sent in an email and asked if I could publish his view on CSDb and I agreed (as VN is an open magazine). If you want a reply, please send to me and I will publish (or an article in general about CSDb etc.)
All, regarding demo reviews. We will hopefully have a team for those next issue (and welcome any of you that seem to have a good idea of how they should be written, looking for PMs).
Overall, glad people loved the issue. Personally, I think it is one of the best yet despite the minor whining. Next year will hopefully get some smaller issues out (1-2 sides). Cheers. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4594 |
Jazzcat: But you do read what people send in, right? Before accepting it? Do you publish whatever crap people send in, even if it contains personal attacks and such? Giving the oppertunity to answer ridiculous lies and personal attacks directly in the same issue should be part of what an editor do. Especially when you have so much time as you do. It's common sense, and good journalism. Because.. well. that's editing... and journalism. If not you are just an copy machine. |
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PAL
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 269 |
I do not know what the dazzle is concentration around now, but again... it is not a job, it is not a living... it is for fun Right? Hedning? It is scene life, thugs in nerds, right? Send in your answer and sixx comments and I pretty much bet it will be in next issue ;-) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1289 |
@hedning: I see you're not loving brothers inside G*P. Isn't it toxic a bit? :) Not the nicest setting, especially that Shadow is one of hardly few coders that actually code in group :) |
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2893 |
@Jammer - I assume there is some humor in there, as Shadow isn't the same person as The Shadow |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
Quote: Its simply a brief proof, that it can be done better. Rendering delta into a single buffer at full framerate lossless can be much sexier than lossy codebook driven approaches. Nothing more, nothing less :-)
with that I agree :) single buffer? cool !:) |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4594 |
Quote: @hedning: I see you're not loving brothers inside G*P. Isn't it toxic a bit? :) Not the nicest setting, especially that Shadow is one of hardly few coders that actually code in group :)
I am tempted to deliberatly confuse you with X-Jammer, just to spice things up in G*P. :D |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11107 |
Quote:Shadow isn't the same person as The Shadow
that seems incorrect, the entries must be merged! |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1289 |
Hedning, now you got me here, LOLOLOL! \:D/ |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 552 |
@Jazzcat: it was just some honest feedback that a few people were giving. VN is a very nice production, clearly has a lot of work put into it - but it could also be improved. With a score currently of 9.7/10 you should be proud: maybe you can get that up to a 10/10 though?
I know you told me a while ago that you were the lead editor of VN... but that doesn’t mean you have to take any feedback for VN personally.
The Demo Reviews, for me, didn’t work.. but hey, this is just a hobby scene, some fun, and you certainly don’t owe anyone anything .. VN is yours to do whatever with.
TLDR: try not to take minor critiques too seriously. |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Raistlin, cool.
Yeah, nothing taken personally here. Let people express themselves!
There is always room to improve things and we will continue to do just that (an example was that hedning wanted commentary-style for The List rather than just the raw game names/points; this feedback was observed and changes were implemented).
We continue to grow and make things bigger and better! |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 243 |
Quoting PALI do not know what the dazzle is concentration around now, but again... it is not a job, it is not a living... it is for fun Right? Hedning? It is scene life, thugs in nerds, right? Send in your answer and sixx comments and I pretty much bet it will be in next issue ;-)
No News. VN is a fine place to tell lies and other bullshit. We already knew it ;) |
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oziphantom
Registered: Oct 2014
Posts: 478 |
Isn't saying crap about people in a "release" and then other people rebutting it in another "release" the Scene way? With bonus points for doing it in a hidden part/off screen scroller? |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 552 |
Quote: Isn't saying crap about people in a "release" and then other people rebutting it in another "release" the Scene way? With bonus points for doing it in a hidden part/off screen scroller?
We never did that in G*P... people said crap about us... and we just answered with the truth about them. I’m not sure about other groups though..? |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Quoting קєคςє๓คкєгQuoting PALI do not know what the dazzle is concentration around now, but again... it is not a job, it is not a living... it is for fun Right? Hedning? It is scene life, thugs in nerds, right? Send in your answer and sixx comments and I pretty much bet it will be in next issue ;-)
No News. VN is a fine place to tell lies and other bullshit. We already knew it ;)
nonsense from you as usual |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 243 |
Quote: Quoting קєคςє๓คкєгQuoting PALI do not know what the dazzle is concentration around now, but again... it is not a job, it is not a living... it is for fun Right? Hedning? It is scene life, thugs in nerds, right? Send in your answer and sixx comments and I pretty much bet it will be in next issue ;-)
No News. VN is a fine place to tell lies and other bullshit. We already knew it ;)
nonsense from you as usual
Love you too, as usual. |
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Sounx
Registered: Dec 2006
Posts: 30 |
Quote:We never did that in G*P... people said crap about us... and we just answered with the truth about them. I’m not sure about other groups though..?
True this, true...
It's not like GP ever had somebody like OMG/Amok talk shit about other groups... ;-) |
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Sander
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 487 |
Quote: Quote:We never did that in G*P... people said crap about us... and we just answered with the truth about them. I’m not sure about other groups though..?
True this, true...
It's not like GP ever had somebody like OMG/Amok talk shit about other groups... ;-)
This is golden :) |
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Digger
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 421 |
@BitBreaker: That's what you get when you don't release a WhitePaper with the demo ;-P} |
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Magic
Registered: Sep 2012
Posts: 42 |
Vandalism News issue 69 now in the making..
Dont spectate, participate...
We like to receive support from you to make it even better!
thanx! |
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2893 |
damn, something other than "poop" or "plop" O_O |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4594 |
Quote: This is golden :)
Fake News! |
