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Grue
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 146 |
Release id #174887 : Mothers creation
Whoever changes this entry name over an over again to Mothers Creation, please stop. Name of the entry is Mothers creation.
Thank you |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3132 |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalization_in_English
mods are simply keeping order, fixing badly created entries _every_day_ by _every_one_
You can't blame us if we blindly apply simple rules every time we see wrong entries.
To be fair, the title should be even Mother's Creation. Nobody knows if you spelled it wrongly intentionally or not. |
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Grue
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 146 |
No, name of the entry is Mothers creation, nothing more, nothing less.
Creation means something more than just creation. What comes into correctness, I think I can as creating artist decide what is wrong and what not, in the end its the name.
So, in the future to prevent vandalism, how I can tell mods that name is as it should be and not to be "corrected".
I tried to lock entry to prevent change, but it didn't help. |
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2893 |
No, here at CSDb we use "Title Case" for named entries in the database.
https://titlecaseconverter.com |
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Grue
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 146 |
Quote: No, here at CSDb we use "Title Case" for named entries in the database.
https://titlecaseconverter.com
Ok, nice. Automatic failure :D
So, nothing can be done about that. I think next time my entry will be something like "aUTOMATIC fAILURE"
anyway, thanks for the info. |
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Grue
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 146 |
This is not homever ok that you locked the entry and now I cannot put correct name into aka field which should be Mothers creation, not something made up like its currently :D
Now I can understand way better why mods get so much anger from content creators. |
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2893 |
CSDb has applied "title case" to entries for many many years now, with moderators (and trusted users) silently updating entries when discovered.
Furthermore, CSDb is a private database of releases that is governed by rules, it isn't a personal download site for content creators to do as they wish with the database. Entries aren't owned by content creators and allowing everyone to have their own custom stylizations in an entry would be a disaster.
As for your example of "aUTOMATIC fAILURE"; that would be changed to Automatic Failure as the rules for "title case" are flexible and allow for some variance. |
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Grue
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 146 |
And now you're just a-holes as entry is locked and I cannot correct aka field to present correct name. |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1821 |
Go ahead and edit - aka as you like.
Being the a-holes we are we surely will check back on it. |
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Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 422 |
This is philosophically interesting issue.
Has to do with authors rights, and do we extend same courtesy to commercial companies as to individuals.
This is also language issue. In Finnish language for instance, only the first letter of the first word in the title is to capitalized, and that is a rule. Capitalization of any word elsewhere in the text except the first of sentence also changes the semantics of the word.
In English the rules seem to be complicated, some stuff can be capitalized and other stuff not, and many publications seem to see this as a style issue, not language issue.
Application of those style rules seems to be what really is going on here. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11110 |
Which of the 7 different styles is to be used on csdb though? :)
There's no politically correct term for 'fucking idiot'. |
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Mr.Ammo
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 228 |
Title case is hardly ever used for publications in Europe or any other part of the world, except for North America. Even in the UK it's hardly ever used for publications.
Personally I think it is important to not only preserve software, but also how the title is actually written by the publisher. CSDb should not (silently) change this, it does not fit CSDb's philosophy: "[...] preserving as much information as possible on everything concerning the C64 Scene." when you remove / change the original title. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1289 |
What Mr Ammo said. Title is part of a product after all - CSDb is database, not a publisher with rights ;) |
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Copyfault
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 466 |
Quoting Mr Ammo[...]
Personally I think it is important to not only preserve software, but also how the title is actually written by the publisher. CSDb should not (silently) change this, it does not fit CSDb's philosophy: "[...] preserving as much information as possible on everything concerning the C64 Scene." when you remove / change the original title.
+10^10000000
On the one hand the c64 scene as part of the whole demo scene thingy is usually discribed as "digital art" - on the other hand we do see a discussion here about how to correctly write out a product's name... sorry, I don't really get that: someone doing stuff for the c64 should also have the right to give his artwork any name *plus* it should be his decision wether the specific spelling of that name is part of the artwork itself.
I faintly remember a discussion here about some grammar/spelling mistakes in scrollers. Someone dared to ask if this should be corrected, but (luckily!!!) the majority tended to not change anything for the sake of preservation.
Back to formality: what is the advantage of auto-casing the names of the releases?
Sorry for intervening.
Cheers - Copyfault |
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Shine
Registered: Jul 2012
Posts: 327 |
Indeed, the name/title of an _own_ release should be selected by the creator. (With a very few exceptions).
The exceptions could be very "offensive" names, which insult people/groups or whatever directly for example.
I hope the Mod's will make a wise decision about this. |
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Grue
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 146 |
Quote: Quoting Mr Ammo[...]
Personally I think it is important to not only preserve software, but also how the title is actually written by the publisher. CSDb should not (silently) change this, it does not fit CSDb's philosophy: "[...] preserving as much information as possible on everything concerning the C64 Scene." when you remove / change the original title.
+10^10000000
On the one hand the c64 scene as part of the whole demo scene thingy is usually discribed as "digital art" - on the other hand we do see a discussion here about how to correctly write out a product's name... sorry, I don't really get that: someone doing stuff for the c64 should also have the right to give his artwork any name *plus* it should be his decision wether the specific spelling of that name is part of the artwork itself.
I faintly remember a discussion here about some grammar/spelling mistakes in scrollers. Someone dared to ask if this should be corrected, but (luckily!!!) the majority tended to not change anything for the sake of preservation.
Back to formality: what is the advantage of auto-casing the names of the releases?
Sorry for intervening.
Cheers - Copyfault
There doesn't seem to be any auto-casing so it was just misunderstanding / BS.
Its quite easy to find releases with mixed rules. |
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Grue
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 146 |
This also pisses me up that this turned into some war. Now aka is vandalized again :)
"Mothers creation, Mother's Creation"
Please mods, tell me what is the correct place to tell the real name of the entry and not just some made up like it currently turned up to be.
I can see that someone is trying to provoke me, but this issue really is important to me.
This is starting to feel like standing in the school yard again and people bullying me :D |
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Grue
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 146 |
I added trivia entry explaining the name of the entry, now trivia is removed also.
What is wrong with you people? |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
This was posted as Trivia, but suits better in the forum as it contains a lot more than trivia:
”
Trivia Info
Submitted by Grue [PM] on 6 February 2019 (Censored)
Real name of the entry is "Mothers creation". This caused some strange moderator war against me which first ended up locking the entry. Then I was allowed to put real name into aka field, and after that there's again some nonsense added.
Personally I feel I'm being bullied but I can also understand that this issue is silly. But as a creator of this demo, I think I can decide what this is called.
This entry might be horrible for most of the people, but I'm actually proud what I accomplished and I consider this as an art even its a kind of copy from original creation.
I have also locked the entry from editing, but moderators can ofc overrule this.” |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
Grue: just post the first sentance as trivia. The rest of the stuff suits better here. |
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Grue
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 146 |
You dont think that the whole naming issue is not trivia itself?
I think it is |
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Grue
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 146 |
And why is aka field changed again to this? I locked the entry for a reason. |
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Grue
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 146 |
Quote: Go ahead and edit - aka as you like.
Being the a-holes we are we surely will check back on it.
I tried, but it was changed again by moderators. I dont dare to touch it again.
So please tell me, what field is ment for the real name of the entry? And how can I put it so it wont get wise assed again? |
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TPM
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 109 |
Changing names is just bullshit. It's the publisher choice. Should not be edit by moderators.
BTW.. If title case is preferred, it can be simply done by script |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
Quote: You dont think that the whole naming issue is not trivia itself?
I think it is
No it's not. It's about CSDb, and naming issues here. Not this release per se. Trivia field should be about the release itself.
I have no strong opinions when it comes to naming, but for ten years I have added gramatically correct names in the aka fiels because it makes them pop up better when searching for it. If a demo is called "The devils tail" I put "The Devil's Tail" as aka. It has nothing to do with being a bitch or wanting to piss you off, it's simply to help people find the release. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
Quote: I tried, but it was changed again by moderators. I dont dare to touch it again.
So please tell me, what field is ment for the real name of the entry? And how can I put it so it wont get wise assed again?
Again: Use the Trivia field: add "Real name of the entry is 'Mothers creation'". That's it. The rest of the discussion is more suited here in the forum. |
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Grue
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 146 |
So aka field is used for moderator abuse and cannot be decided by "owner" of the entry? And trivia field cannot be used to explain why there is wrong names? |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
<Post edited by hedning on 6/2-2019 10:10>
Oh. You don’t ”own” the entry in the database. Noone does. I removed ”Mother’s” from the aka for now, until we have come to some kind of agreement for how the naming should be handled. And the moderators don’t abuse - they moderate. |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1821 |
Funny nobody mentioned that true filename preservation is more important than web display. At least IMHO.
So putting the file into a .d64 with "proper" upper/lowercasing would be the most basic way to express the artists naming choice, no? *g* |
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Grue
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 146 |
Quote: Oh. You don’t ”own” the entry in the database. Noone does. I removed ”Mother’s” from the aka for now, until we have come to some kind of agreement for how the naming should be handled. And the moderators don’t abuse - they moderate.
Ok, this case is solved then for me.
Please stop bullying in the future, even when its called moderation. |
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Grue
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 146 |
Quote: Funny nobody mentioned that true filename preservation is more important than web display. At least IMHO.
So putting the file into a .d64 with "proper" upper/lowercasing would be the most basic way to express the artists naming choice, no? *g*
You have a point there, I'll use .t64 in the future for this. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
Quote: Ok, this case is solved then for me.
Please stop bullying in the future, even when its called moderation.
If I was bullying, I should be kicked out from the moderator team. |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3132 |
Filenames in disks/tapes are always all uppercase, that's why a casing convention is used, else we only have shouted all caps database entries, you damn silly bitches. |
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Grue
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 146 |
Quote: If I was bullying, I should be kicked out from the moderator team.
I know, but you can either check changelog or use mr. sherlock skills on this thread who changed the aka field in the first place.
But this is enough on this, really. |
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Grue
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 146 |
Quote: Filenames in disks/tapes are always all uppercase, that's why a casing convention is used, else we only have shouted all caps database entries, you damn silly bitches.
You can even use case change character on filename, also change colours and use upper and lowercase characters on filename.
Please say I just missed your joke on the subject. |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3132 |
Fixing entries it's not "bullying", it's "doing his job".
Stop bitching, last warning. |
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 716 |
Why do we have moderators at all? Probably to keep away stuff like sexual harassment, racism and political extremism. It's very good if you do that, but stay there! Don't pretend to be a spell-checker or anything else, and don't ever think that you know better than anyone else! You are also just a human even if you call yourself "moderator".
Changing the title for better search is nonsense, upgrade the damn search engine.. I think the least you can expect from any nerd-db is that you're free to set your own title of what you provide, avoiding what i said a few lines up.. We don't need more big brothers. |
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Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 422 |
The title case converter does not change the first letter of eBay or iTunes.
Explanation: eBay is capitalized in a nonstandard way because it is a brand name, company name or acronym.
Solution: register the mothers creation as a brand, company name or acronym. |
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Grue
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 146 |
Quote: Fixing entries it's not "bullying", it's "doing his job".
Stop bitching, last warning.
Last warning, about what?
banning me? closing topic? |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1031 |
lol! This thread is a prime example on how moderators should not moderate.
- Making up rules that are nowhere to be found on csdb.
- Falsely claiming this public website is private.
- Using hyperbole "for content creators to do as they wish with the database".
- Not responding to genuine on-topic comments (by Mixer, Mr.Ammo, Shine, HCL)
- Threatening content creators and using profanity: "Stop bitching, last warning." and "you damn silly bitches"
- Claiming a filename is the same as a title.
- Locking entries because... what?
Now, the proper response should have been:
"Sorry grue, we have silently applied a naming convention for release titles in this database, which was done to make the entries look better and to improve find-ability when people use our search.
Would you mind leaving the title to what we changed it to and use the AKA field instead?"
It would've given you the same result you got now, but without the hassle and aggression coming from all involved moderators.
I appreciate all the slave-labor the moderators put in, but please, let someone with a clue handle the public relations part. |
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ptoing
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 271 |
Quote: The title case converter does not change the first letter of eBay or iTunes.
Explanation: eBay is capitalized in a nonstandard way because it is a brand name, company name or acronym.
Solution: register the mothers creation as a brand, company name or acronym.
I hope you are being facetious there, because this is utter nonsense.
I would say that it is the authors right to call their stuff anyway they please, that is the name of the entry.
Grue could have called it "M-OTH-er''''s creatiooon" or something like that, and it still should not be changed.
And indeed, making the search engine better, maybe by being more lenient, and just not caring about non a-z and 0-9 stuff at all, and maybe also treating repeated letters numbers as one thing.
But just willy nilly changing the names of stuff, when you could instead ask the people who made the prod, is pretty silly. |
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Grue
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 146 |
Can someone also explain why my screenshot is replaced with another one? What was wrong with the one I supplied?
Care to point me to rules on screenshots. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11110 |
The rules for screenshots are shown when you add a screenshot:
Quote:
There are a few simple rules to follow when uploading release screenshots to CSDb:
1. The image must be in GIF or PNG format.
2. The image size should be standard 320x200 (+ border if you want). (No scaling, or filters like CRT-emulation, please))
3. The filesize must be max 512000 bytes.
(i wish someone would add "don't use speccy colors" to this)
There's no politically correct term for 'fucking idiot'. |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2067 |
plus: pretty please no psychedelic ZX Spectrum color palette for a C64 release screenshot
BTT: Much ado about nothing! But Burglar's got a point stating that moderators show a talent to rather fuel the fire and make things worse than showing some good will and deescalate a situation. Users who have an account for ages here should be used to it and able to deal with it, however, this ain't a girls' boarding school, this is Sparta :) |
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Grue
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 146 |
Quote: The rules for screenshots are shown when you add a screenshot:
Quote:
There are a few simple rules to follow when uploading release screenshots to CSDb:
1. The image must be in GIF or PNG format.
2. The image size should be standard 320x200 (+ border if you want). (No scaling, or filters like CRT-emulation, please))
3. The filesize must be max 512000 bytes.
(i wish someone would add "don't use speccy colors" to this)
There's no politically correct term for 'fucking idiot'.
Dang i used just what latest vice defaults to... No more screenshots from me, too much hassle to change settings just for screenshot. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11110 |
VICE _always_ saves screenshots without CRT emulation, no need to change settings. |
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Grue
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 146 |
I grabbed it with external tool, not vice itself. |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2067 |
Dude, SNAPSHOT -> SAVE/STOP MEDIA FILE -> SAVE AS FILENAME FOO (set Select Driver to .PNG) is not asked too much and saves you the headache you have with whatever external tools |
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bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2477 |
Or Ctrl-C, even easier. :) |
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Compyx
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 631 |
Gtk3 VICE will even generate the filename of said screenshot with the date and time, ie 'vice-screen-%yyyyMMddhhmm'. |
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Grue
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 146 |
thanks for the tips, but the default ui is so messy I dindnt know how to take screenshot so I used my other tool for the job.
I don't do that again, and I think for my next production I have already forgotten your tips.
Maybe someday ui is not such a mess that I can manage to take it without any help :) |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
Quote: thanks for the tips, but the default ui is so messy I dindnt know how to take screenshot so I used my other tool for the job.
I don't do that again, and I think for my next production I have already forgotten your tips.
Maybe someday ui is not such a mess that I can manage to take it without any help :)
ALT-C in Vice is the only thing you need to remember. :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11110 |
Quote:ALT-C in Vice is the only thing you need to remember. :)
unless you are using a recent version, of course >_<
There's no politically correct term for 'fucking idiot'. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
Quote: Quote:ALT-C in Vice is the only thing you need to remember. :)
unless you are using a recent version, of course >_<
There's no politically correct term for 'fucking idiot'.
3.1 is quite recent, I reckon. When listening to SID's at work I prefer 2.4 though. ;) At home it's all about the real thing, but it's harder to make a screenshot from that one.
Best regards
/Your favourite idiot |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11110 |
Quote:3.1 is quite recent
Yep, in the same universe where "nothing happens" equals "we are working on it".
There's no politically correct term for 'fucking idiot'. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
Quote: Quote:3.1 is quite recent
Yep, in the same universe where "nothing happens" equals "we are working on it".
There's no politically correct term for 'fucking idiot'.
I have understood that. I hope there will be official Vice builds of recent versions for win64 soon. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11110 |
Hope dies last - but it dies.
There's no politically correct term for 'fucking idiot'. |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1821 |
So we came from whining about letter cases to screenshots and VICE versions now - time to be the asshole - CLOSED the same way i gave up on trying to build recent VICE versions for winbloat. |
