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2019-04-01 23:22

Didi

Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 479

Release id #176410 : Propaganda List #1 2019

Quite funny: If the coder is member of the releasing group and supplies the original, it gets no points here (example: The Age of Heroes). If the musician of the game is member in the releasing group, it's OK (example: Nono Pixie Preview 4). C'mon. Get real! Crackers have always used "connections" to get hand on the originals first. Usually you did not even ask for the source. You just respected that they had it first, point. The rule here is not thought through until end and does not respect tradition IMO.

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2019-04-02 23:58

hedning

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4594

Quote: Vandalism News arrives June 9. No changes to the rules. Read it there if you do not agree with this list. I guess different lists, allow different views to be expressed. Above all, enjoy what you do!
Greetz.

p.s.
http://thelist.c64.org

Nice to hear you speeded up the pace! Indeed, keep on doing what you like to do.

2019-04-03 10:15

Pitcher

Registered: Aug 2006
Posts: 61

Quote: Respecting tradition is actually keeping from cracking games you made yourself. It has always been looked upon as a nono, and should be embarrassing. Please explain when and how it would be a good idea for the scene to promote creating games yourself that you then release yourself as a crack. I am curious for real, as I truly want to help the scene thrive and be taken a bit serious. Right now parts of it is a big joke, and I do believe Propalist is the path forward, and I know other groups are backing this view, even if they don't comment here (this is the wrong forum for it, and will only spawn criticism and trolling in the end by people not caring about the first release list to begin with).

I think respecting cracking tradition has totally flown out the window here, we in Fairlight have found spending the time on something older, with real protection or fixing some that was previously bugged, gets more votes and comments than a 1 file wonder preview.

You currently have groups rushing to train and intro link a non protected, often 1 filed game.

Some of those intros are sloppy and larger than the game itself at times.

So wheres tradition in that ??

Also what's the difference in releasing your own groups game that you may have the source too, or finding source code to a game on Github and releasing that ??

Maybe all github games should be zero points too ??

2019-04-03 10:30

Golara
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2018
Posts: 212

Quote: I think respecting cracking tradition has totally flown out the window here, we in Fairlight have found spending the time on something older, with real protection or fixing some that was previously bugged, gets more votes and comments than a 1 file wonder preview.

You currently have groups rushing to train and intro link a non protected, often 1 filed game.

Some of those intros are sloppy and larger than the game itself at times.

So wheres tradition in that ??

Also what's the difference in releasing your own groups game that you may have the source too, or finding source code to a game on Github and releasing that ??

Maybe all github games should be zero points too ??

I'm not a cracker, never was probably never will be, but I totally agree with that. I always thought that "cracking" unprotected new 1 file games was really weird, i mean, what was there to crack ? At least trainers make a bit of sense, but that's it. For example the "crack" of robozzle is just a linked intro and docs.

2019-04-03 11:36

Tim
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 467

Guys, since this topic affects all teams in the game, a response is due too from Excess too:

Having debated this topic for a day now in our team, we are somewhat hung over the issue and understand the intent, however also find it very hard to support these changes as presented.

Moving forward we will be in touch off-line from CSDB to provide our input/feedback as we too share some of the objections already mentioned by others in this thread.

You can frown upon certain releases, it is an interesting topic to debate, and we will gladly sit and debate on it with Propalist editors and other teams off-line from CSDB.

One objection however we will openly post:

Clipping Hokuto Force at 0 pts, this is simply wrong, and we hereby formally request this rectified in the next edition. We can debate moving forward, but we cannot accept new rules being applied backwards.

2019-04-03 13:09

hedning

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4594

Quote: Guys, since this topic affects all teams in the game, a response is due too from Excess too:

Having debated this topic for a day now in our team, we are somewhat hung over the issue and understand the intent, however also find it very hard to support these changes as presented.

Moving forward we will be in touch off-line from CSDB to provide our input/feedback as we too share some of the objections already mentioned by others in this thread.

You can frown upon certain releases, it is an interesting topic to debate, and we will gladly sit and debate on it with Propalist editors and other teams off-line from CSDB.

One objection however we will openly post:

Clipping Hokuto Force at 0 pts, this is simply wrong, and we hereby formally request this rectified in the next edition. We can debate moving forward, but we cannot accept new rules being applied backwards.

We hear you and we'll answer and get in touch outside of CSDb (like I said in my first message in the thread), for sure. BTW: Nice to get a clear and civilized answer. :)

2019-04-03 22:31

Bacchus

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 154

Tradition was not to crack your own stuff. There was a commercial reason not to. And we also don't want to encourage People to code small shitty games and pump them out to gain points. I guess that was the reason why SEUCK games didn't get points either.

Releases of GitHub projects in as many iterations as the prerelease rules allows and adding an intro bigger than the game (as Pitcher already pointed out), to gain points is not the sport we play on FairLight. That's like adding intros to PD games and that's unworthy. Under our dignity.

But still - everybody with a list own the set of rules associated with that list. Its up to the list maintainer if they want to bring in opinions, or not. Feel free to humbly ask for reasons on changes of criteria, but unless you own the list you are in no position to request.

Of all the remarks I particularly fancied the reference to the BBS dance.

Pontus "Bacchus" Berg
* FairLight Council *

2019-04-04 04:47

Optic Freeze

Registered: Jun 2011
Posts: 9

This!! Right on the $. Well said Bordeaux.

Cheers gents!

OF/G*P

2019-04-04 18:19

Sixx

Registered: May 2005
Posts: 229

Releasing a game produced by yourself have always been a no-no and considered lame.

If some groups keep breaking these unwritten rules, i totally understand the need for something like this added to release lists.

Maybe it should have been communicated in advance tho, what do I know..

Cheers!

2019-04-04 22:44

E$G

Registered: Dec 2007
Posts: 786

@-$iXX!-
That's the point what lame is?
A group that take advantage of releasing a game (commercial or free), considered 1st release because of the meaning the grand jury "invented"? And how many advantages will take every year (1,2 or 3)?
And what will be the way to check? Only the coder, the whole team? graphics-music and even the tester?
All this noiZe for what??
I have a clear list of what I consider lame & unfriendly in the scene today and I've written in the above message.
And how many different list - 1st release list - will have?
What will be the future? Every group will make one, pulling water to his mill?
No way you can change the position of the elements, Laxity will always win #1.

@ Hedning & Dr.Strange but also Jazzcat & more...

So what's the deal? Never turn back because of the Ripper and fight from #2 to #7 'till death will tear us apart
or sittin' in front of a virtual table with at least one organizer representative of the 1st releaser group (that coincide with the competitors) and try to listen to the many voices that wish to improve a system that doesn't fully work
With written laws, happily applied when approved?

2019-04-04 22:46

Smasher

Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 512

Quote:

Releasing a game produced by yourself have always been a no-no and considered lame.

really? I can list a lot of things which are more lame for me: recracking (i.e. replace the intro and take all the credits), sell pirated stuff and make profit, use csdb as source and introlink, etc etc.
what a coder wants to do with his game (sell each copy for 1000$, spread it for free, introlink or add trainers, release it under a fake handle, give it to another group, etc) should be his very own decision only, whether you like it or not.

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