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Forums > CSDb Entries > Release id #203390 : Unity
2021-04-25 18:07
Ze Smasher

Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 484
Release id #203390 : Unity

Submitted by Ze Smasher on 25 April 2021
great demo! I love the triple fisting part and the one with the big logo swing with that strange color fx (is it by you, Doc?).
I have a question tho (a simple straight question without malignity and bad feelings which I hope won't offend anyone): if you are the organizers of a party should your demo compete against other entries or be set out of the compo?
Submitted by anonym on 25 April 2021
Appreciate the question. Something like this has happened at other parties many many times before, it took less than a minute to find several other examples here on CSDb.
For us, there were a number of reasons this happened, mostly because the timing worked out. For a new event, there are many risks involved. One of the biggest risks is a lack of release for the competitions. One way to address this is to have your own entry.
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2021-04-27 08:45

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1788
Yo, one of the guys from the demo that came second here. _o/

Great discussion here.
We got 2nd place by some definitions, we might have won votes based on name voting, perhaps some Xenon members voted only for our demo and who knows maybe we got downvotes from our contestants.

Who cares?

We are very happy with the result and extremely enjoyed by the comments during the stream and those here on CSDb. It's not every day that about 500 people have full attention for your production all at once.

Great party!
Stick to whatever voting system you like.
2021-04-27 13:43

Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 26
Okay so I'm just a minor participant at Transmission64 but here are my two cents.

I guess I see where Smasher is coming from and it's a legitimate question: When there are no physical prizes to renounce as an "organizing winner" and pass on to the next highest participant, then what can you do? When the only prize is the ranking, you cannot give that away to others.

Is that fair or unfair? I just think that Anonym, Franky and Mibri went more than the extra mile to organize this whole event and still they managed to be involved in multiple releases too. I honestly think it would be rather unfair to exclude the organizing groups after all the blood, sweat and tears that went into planning/organizing the event as long as there's a fair public voting system.

Let's be honest: It's way more motivating for the whole team anyway if you can plan on releasing your stuff *in* a compo even if it's "your own".
2021-04-27 21:02

Registered: Apr 2020
Posts: 22
As a "newbie" that until recently could only count a couple of Amiga parties in the late 80's to my list I guess my opinion isn't worth even two cents, but think Toggle is spot on.

Through hard work and stirring up an interest the guys managed to get ~100 releases, which surely would have been an amazing achievement even in the old days so if they also wanted to chip in with the odd release themselves, great, just wonder how on earth they found the time!

It's all for fun and my own little contribution didn't stand a chance ind the gfx compo, but I thoroughly enjoyed the event anyway :)

But we're all entitled to our opinions and the beauty of hosting your own event is that you can set the rules while others can choose to play, or not ;)

Take care and stay safe!!
2021-04-28 07:52

Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 302
Just to take Gubbdata as an example compo, since ZeSmasher did mention it earlier… I’ve entered 2 demos there: Delirious 11 in 2018 and The Dive in 2019. Both times coming 2nd.

I entered these to Gubbdata because I wanted to support G*P’s party. To help make the compo more interesting. I could’ve submitted these out-of-compo for sure - but that doesn’t make for a more interesting compo …

In 2018, there was only Soft Machine (Triad) that I would consider to be a proper full-blown demo, other than ours… so it would’ve been a straightforward and boring win for Triad if we hadn’t entered. 2019 was a little better with demos from Booze (Elder Scrollers) and Fairlight (Skaneland 2) … but, still, the compo really benefited from our entry.

It was ok in the 80s to enter compos at your own parties, when there were many more top-end entries, so I don’t see a problem with it now. A lot of today’s compos would be pretty dull without these I reckon.
2021-04-28 12:36

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 9828
I remember a lot of controversy about it in the 80s too :)
2021-04-28 15:49

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 470
Quote: I remember a lot of controversy about it in the 80s too :)

Ikari & Zargon Party 1989
Results will always be arbitrary, as we don’t have a written format for demos.
And indeed, I wish people would stop caring about votes, it is creatively liberating. (Vote for me!)
2021-04-28 19:20

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 9828
Thats why i always liked the jury voting... its not more "unfair" than public votes, but leaves more room for unpopular decisions.
2021-04-29 17:17

Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 40
Quote: Thats why i always liked the jury voting... its not more "unfair" than public votes, but leaves more room for unpopular decisions.

Or a combination of both?
2021-04-29 17:33

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 2773
I remember when my group Studio Style won the compo on Demobit '95. It was actually a shame, because there were technically much better entries ;-) Problem is that only our demo was running on emulator available at that time and voting system was relying on screenshots of entries (you had voting disc etc. no hand counting). Our demo was the only one that had screenshot(s)?. I don't even know who was doing them and how it was done, I don't remember. Anyway I had a speech at price giving ceremony and I said there that it's a shame that we won. Similar speech was made by Amiga organizer, they also won ;-)))

I would call that good old times now, but other friends in the scene React and Cult groups which were competing were very disappointed about that, me too.

Demobit 1995
2021-04-29 17:38

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 2773
Quote: Wondering if I should post, but there you go..

I can't recall if there was still jury voting in 2000, or 1998 was the last time. I believe we won fairly that year, maybe you should check the other entries.

Anyway, if groups can't compete on their own parties, that would be a loss for the scene. Is it fair? Not sure. Unfair? Not sure.

Probably the whole "who won" thing depends on who you ask, so there will always be discussion.

Probably 2000 was the last. I was on 2000, and there was a jury vote.
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