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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2825 |
Release id #205500 : Freespin
Allow me to comment on some tech details here, as i don't have an FB account to comment on the blog.
Great idea about the table-less 3:2 GCR-compliant codec to have maximum spare space for actual payload effect code. =)
(But table sizes of traditional decoding schemes aren't all that big, really.) |
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Laxity
Registered: Aug 2005
Posts: 459 |
I would go even further and argue that for something to be a c64 demo it would have to be a demo running on a Commodore 64. |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1820 |
I advice the thread gets back to the interesting technical questions. Learn some drive code instead of ranting that a "special" demo ate the top demo vote charts and spilled them out. You just want it out of the top list anyhow - open another thread on that then. |
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Copyfault
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 466 |
Quoting Quiss[...]
Quoting willymanilly
It could be a number of reasons but I'm suspecting Z64K is having issues with correctly handling the bit banging of the track stepper which possibly causes reading of data from wrong track, eventually causing the demo to crash.
Hmm, freespin typically doesn't crash if it's just on the wrong track (as long as it's not on a half-track). There's one part per track, so it'll just play whatever part is on that track. Send me a PM if I can help debug. Hm, ok, so this means the shorter parts are to be found on the higher tracks?
Now when I start pondering about this, how does the avarage drive speed influence the demo? Do the effects "slow down" on slower drives? And if so, can the demo get out of sync relative to the drive music or are the means to keep the syncing? |
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Laxity
Registered: Aug 2005
Posts: 459 |
Quote: Quoting Quiss[...]
Quoting willymanilly
It could be a number of reasons but I'm suspecting Z64K is having issues with correctly handling the bit banging of the track stepper which possibly causes reading of data from wrong track, eventually causing the demo to crash.
Hmm, freespin typically doesn't crash if it's just on the wrong track (as long as it's not on a half-track). There's one part per track, so it'll just play whatever part is on that track. Send me a PM if I can help debug. Hm, ok, so this means the shorter parts are to be found on the higher tracks?
Now when I start pondering about this, how does the avarage drive speed influence the demo? Do the effects "slow down" on slower drives? And if so, can the demo get out of sync relative to the drive music or are the means to keep the syncing?
I could do without your speculations about what my motivations for replying are!
On the point of it being off topic, you’re quite right. I didn’t check the initial post, and I’m sorry to have fed the off topic discussion. My apologies - bad form.
Edit: this was supposed to quote Count Zero’s post.. epic fail. :D |
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Trap
Registered: Jul 2010
Posts: 222 |
Sorry for the hi-jack. I was replying to other peoples comments. As for your original post, Count Zero (that you have since edited), I will address that with you in a private message. |
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willymanilly
Registered: Jan 2016
Posts: 27 |
I finally got this demo reliably running to the end in Z64K now! It had nothing to do with half tracks or mechanical delays. Long story short it was because my attempt to emulate VIA latching as described in VICE bugs #582 and #1462 still needs some work. Basically freespin was not always getting the latest valid and expected data from the VIA ports because of the incorrect latching emulation. |
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Quiss
Registered: Nov 2016
Posts: 37 |
Quoting mankeli
Does the music playback in this demo make the drive to misalign? I've heard the stepping the head a lot into the mechanical stop causes that.
Freespin doesn't actually bang against the mechanical stops, outside of the "load error" interlude during the horizontal stripes part.
In all other parts of the music, the head just goes back and fro between two half-tracks.
Haven't seen any drive misalignment or damage happen during development. (Two drives "died" on me, but one had a fused VIA that I blame on the power adapter, and for the other, the door mechanic broke.)
Quoting Copyfault
Hm, ok, so this means the shorter parts are to be found on the higher tracks?
Parts are all the same length, 1792 bytes. They only use the lower tracks. (Because PVCF said those sound better. :))
Quoting Copyfault
Now when I start pondering about this, how does the avarage drive speed influence the demo? Do the effects "slow down" on slower drives?
Worst that can happen is that the gap between two effects gets longer. This would affect both video and audio, so the demo stays in sync, but music will briefly be off-beat. |
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Quiss
Registered: Nov 2016
Posts: 37 |
Also, changed the release type of Freespin to "C64 Misc". Back to work, everybody. :) |
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Copyfault
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 466 |
Quoting QuissAlso, changed the release type of Freespin to "C64 Misc". Back to work, everybody. :) The fact aside that C0 just did the right thing in mentioning that this thread is about the tech details of this outstanding release I have to take my hat off for Quiss' move.
Now create a demo for the vanilla c64-platform and reclaim the top1 easily, Quiss ;) |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 549 |
I’m actually a little sad that Freespin has now dropped off the always-visible charts on CSDb… but I do agree it’s not a “vanilla” demo - it’s something far more awesome.
“ this thread is about the tech details of this outstanding release”
- I disagree. Every release on CSDb has a comment section most commonly used for review-like commentary. But.. there’s also a link to discuss the release in the forum. This thread is titled “Release ——-: Freespin”. Because it’s a thread about the release. Everything about the release. IMO if a discussion is wanted about the technical aspects without interruption from everyone else, that could be a new thread just as easily as Trap’s about whether this is a C64 Demo or not … my 2c, anyway, that’s certainly the way I’ve seen this go on other releases on CSDb….
If there was a new category for these things, like C64 Misc Demos, then Freespin could he #1 on the “All Demos” chart at least.. perhaps? (If it in fact is - I haven’t checked).
Final point: I wish people would stop caring about who is #1. This is a database site - the voting just gives a little bit of interaction. |
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