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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
Release id #30240 : Reel Fishing Preview
Discussion is better left to the forums, I guess, so here goes.
Apparently some clarifications are in order. I have nothing against PTV at all, and I'm not involved in the cracking scene. I do enjoy a bit of game development myself.
However, I can't understand what problems PTV have with seeing cracks of their games on CSDb, especially since PTV are "not commercial" (according to MacGyver, at least). And even if they were, no sane person could believe that today's C64 games are sold less because of cracking.
Having your game cracked is an advantage really, since it increases the chance that people will play it, find that they like it, and place an order. But apparently this is not how PTV see it, and disagreeing with them entails having their coders throw fits and leave, which supposedly is going to "kill the scene". Bah. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034 |
Quote: Discussion is better left to the forums, I guess, so here goes.
Apparently some clarifications are in order. I have nothing against PTV at all, and I'm not involved in the cracking scene. I do enjoy a bit of game development myself.
However, I can't understand what problems PTV have with seeing cracks of their games on CSDb, especially since PTV are "not commercial" (according to MacGyver, at least). And even if they were, no sane person could believe that today's C64 games are sold less because of cracking.
Having your game cracked is an advantage really, since it increases the chance that people will play it, find that they like it, and place an order. But apparently this is not how PTV see it, and disagreeing with them entails having their coders throw fits and leave, which supposedly is going to "kill the scene". Bah.
Heheh.. ok simple answer. What makes them upset? That if they ask for something it's not respected and they are even bashed for that. It doesn't really matter what is better for them, what is tradition etc. etc. blah blah blah. Simply: if I askyou to stop picking in the nose when you are near to me, please do it! Or I'll quite our nice long lasting relationship with you. ;-)) They are around CSDB and around C64.sk quite often so it's obvious that you have to reconcile with their presence. It's internet, distances shortened.
Please everybody, who is explaining in endless iterations of iterations how the scene works, what are the principles, etc. Please accept the fact that NOW it's about people and their relationship. We have to live with each other, most of us know each other. Please accept it and communicate, even when it's somone who haven't got a clue at all. ;-) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
(i'll post it here aswell, didnt notice someone started a thread)
That whole discussion is irritating. I fail to see the point and how its a matter of respect when "crackers" spread a game by a "game company". And then someone who i have seen once or twice on a micro small "scene party" (and never heard of before, or after) tells me to fuck off. OK. Thats what i call respect. Go for it! Just one thing: if you and/or your (former) group wants to be part of the "scene" by acting like this, it wont happen. That said, i havent done anything on the c-64 for long, i and our group left the "cracking" stuff on c-64 long ago for several reasons which are really out of the scope here (and dont contribute anything to the point). I have big respect for everyone coding stuff on the c-64 in 2006 (even for those who produce crap!). i like games and demos and cracks and music and koala and all that, and i still fail to see the point, because its how the "scene" works. If the one or the other discourages you from doing stuff and release it, the scene is not for you. EOT. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034 |
Quote: (i'll post it here aswell, didnt notice someone started a thread)
That whole discussion is irritating. I fail to see the point and how its a matter of respect when "crackers" spread a game by a "game company". And then someone who i have seen once or twice on a micro small "scene party" (and never heard of before, or after) tells me to fuck off. OK. Thats what i call respect. Go for it! Just one thing: if you and/or your (former) group wants to be part of the "scene" by acting like this, it wont happen. That said, i havent done anything on the c-64 for long, i and our group left the "cracking" stuff on c-64 long ago for several reasons which are really out of the scope here (and dont contribute anything to the point). I have big respect for everyone coding stuff on the c-64 in 2006 (even for those who produce crap!). i like games and demos and cracks and music and koala and all that, and i still fail to see the point, because its how the "scene" works. If the one or the other discourages you from doing stuff and release it, the scene is not for you. EOT.
This is exaxtly the type of reactions which I call "calling this situation normal". But it's not. ;-) Maybe I got your point wrong, but no I'm not in PTV, wasn't and won't be. Other thing is that some of my friends (and even relatives (which doesn't really matter to me but it does to e.g. Holloman)) are/were and some of them are/were even sceners. But if you knew me, I never care about all this serious business around C64. C64 can't be saved and our enthusiasm is not unlimited. The thing is to accept it. You or me (and yes that's really shame to be inactive) are perfectly reconciled with how the things work (for our own sanity's sake) but some people will never get it and they will always try. But although I know that I won't find much people accepting my point of view, I always try to persuade everyone I can to accept the fact that scene is about people and communication, and that's the reason why I'm defending PTV, not because there is some people I know, but because I think if someone I know personally or meet on internet quite often asks me not to do something which hurts him, I should listen to his requests.
P.S.: I'm really sorry for taking so much effort in discussions like this, but this kind of topics about communication and realtionships is always important to me. |
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ready.
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 441 |
I have not been in the scene for very long and I havent either lived the scene but through internet. So I might be cluless of how it works. Im sorry and apologize to those who have a clue about it. Regarding Reel Fishing, as Courage said, the main problem was not cracking TANKS 3000, but it was just a matter of not being polite, just simple rules of behaviour that most (or maybe not so many) people usually have when relating to each other. Somebody are like rain coats and dont care about insults and fuckings and just keep going their way, and probably its the best way to be, since they dont get hurt neither do they hurt others.
Some others take it seriously. And here comes the problem, since some people on the scene think its not their problem if somebody gets upset. Well, as experience proves, it is their problem. If I remember well not so long ago somebody started deleting entries from CSDb. Why? He was one of those without raincoat and WE ALL suffered the consequences. So I guess that sometimes some people should shut their insults up since they dont bring any good.
Answer this: what good has throwing insults at each other has done to the scene?
best regards,
Ready.
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hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474 |
its fascinating, creamd who usually only crawls out from under his rock for the .SID compo, and doesnt have time to keep the latest downloads on c64.sk up to date for some two years somehow found time to spam the comments and forums in defense for yet another PTV-muppet.
most people have something special they feel strongly about, be it optimizing code, ending world hunger or saving some endangered rhino.
i find it fascinating and somehow heart warming that there is someone out there whos love for the less fortunate in protovision is so infinite that he is always willing to defend them.
so this tosser who apparently couldnt take negative comments without going 'fuck you', or see a download link of his game without quitting his hobby wants to be respected.
i however want this scene database to be respected, and as accurate and complete as possible. its a shame that it is conflicting with the interests of the non commercialists in PTV, although i sort of understand their dislike for exposure after trying out some of their games in cracked form |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034 |
Quote: its fascinating, creamd who usually only crawls out from under his rock for the .SID compo, and doesnt have time to keep the latest downloads on c64.sk up to date for some two years somehow found time to spam the comments and forums in defense for yet another PTV-muppet.
most people have something special they feel strongly about, be it optimizing code, ending world hunger or saving some endangered rhino.
i find it fascinating and somehow heart warming that there is someone out there whos love for the less fortunate in protovision is so infinite that he is always willing to defend them.
so this tosser who apparently couldnt take negative comments without going 'fuck you', or see a download link of his game without quitting his hobby wants to be respected.
i however want this scene database to be respected, and as accurate and complete as possible. its a shame that it is conflicting with the interests of the non commercialists in PTV, although i sort of understand their dislike for exposure after trying out some of their games in cracked form
Hollowman, yummy reaction. I really look forward to properly answer you when I return home from my 2nd work. In about half an hour. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
As for the respect thing - i had a half finished team patrol (plus some preview of metal dust which i think was accidently left on the d64) long before it was "out" *SENT TO ME BY A PTV MEMBER*. did i release it? NO. why? because the one who sent it to me asked me not to do it. i have quite a bunch of so called "internal" tools from various ppl aswell. did i release them? NO. because if someone from the scene gives me something and tells me NO SPREAD i would *NEVER* do so, thats what is respect for sceners in my book.I would not be in the position i (and my group) is if i wouldnt respect such wishes. Noone would give me anything if he couldnt blindly trust me in that regard, and i wouldnt give anyone any "exclusive" stuff either if i wouldnt know that i can trust him.
BUT, none of those "cracks" that have been causing all the rumble were "exclusive" like that. These were games that have been released to the general public, and as such they are subject to be "cracked" and spread, like it or not. If i would still be into that kind of stuff, i wouldnt know why i shouldnt do so - and that has nothing to do with respect at all.
Bah, sometimes i think those PTV guys really live in their own twisted universe with their own freaky definition of everything. Maybe they should have looked at our website once and they could notice how i do NOT have downloads for their 4 player games there, although they would fit in there well. I wonder myself why i am doing this now, if the result of that is a childish "FUCK YA!". Maybe i should stop doing things on c-64 the way i like because some selfproclaimed saviour of the scene declares cross-assembling lame and evil. and hell yeah, i might have watched some goddamned movie - who gives a damn? i probably have still coded more on that party than most other visitors together, do i call those that went there to play games and praise PTV lame? why the hell would i do that?
pfff. and yes, i agree with creamd that today the scene is mostly about communication and people, although that doesnt mean i have to call everyone in the scene "friend". also beeing friend with someone has little to do with respecting what he does, or even liking it. i became friend with some coders whose demos i dont like at all, and i respect people who i wouldnt call friends. that said, many times it wasnt "the crackers", it was PTV (or well, certain members) who started the rambling and pointless, clueless personal insults. maybe if they demand respect from others, they should start respecting them too - even if they dont agree with their views, because that is what respect is all about.
oh well, the most sad part about the whole thing is, as soon as certain PTV members join the discussion, the arguments go downhill. (and i'm not refering to courage here, i dont even recall communicating with him in any way - he does though it seems).
hrm, i should stop. i can only hope that both sides learn something from all this craptalk, but judging from the past i have serious doubts about it. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034 |
Groepaz, well put. I'm afraid I understand what you are talking about ;-). And btw. I liked your reactions even when some of my groupates always tried to find provocation in your post. So repsect! ;-)) |
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
It might be a smart thing for CSDb V2 to have a striking link above the comments when a forum-thread has been started. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034 |
Quote: its fascinating, creamd who usually only crawls out from under his rock for the .SID compo, and doesnt have time to keep the latest downloads on c64.sk up to date for some two years somehow found time to spam the comments and forums in defense for yet another PTV-muppet.
most people have something special they feel strongly about, be it optimizing code, ending world hunger or saving some endangered rhino.
i find it fascinating and somehow heart warming that there is someone out there whos love for the less fortunate in protovision is so infinite that he is always willing to defend them.
so this tosser who apparently couldnt take negative comments without going 'fuck you', or see a download link of his game without quitting his hobby wants to be respected.
i however want this scene database to be respected, and as accurate and complete as possible. its a shame that it is conflicting with the interests of the non commercialists in PTV, although i sort of understand their dislike for exposure after trying out some of their games in cracked form
I see that *MOST* of your post is an excercise in sarcasm and irony, but at least it gives me chance to switch to one of my most favourite subjects which I hardly have chance to talk about.. myself ;)))
so...
snip
SidCompo
snip snip snip
Forever
snip snip snip
a lot of serious excuses about personal life and stuff
snip snip snip
enough manhours and mandays
snip snip snip
demo
snip snip snip snip snip snip
I always say. The best constellation for being an active scener is being unemployed, retired, single, rich, student, teacher or combined. I have 'NO' beesides every of those choices.; ;-))
Spamming forums in defense of... yes: I would even defend you if you, but you don't need that. I feel strongly about support of creative C64 scene and Protovision *is* creative group after all.
snip
snip
"i sort of understand their dislike for exposure after trying out some of their games in cracked form"
Says who? A gamer? Beauty is in the eye of beholder and your random opinion is perfect example of this phrase. |
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DCMP
Account closed
Registered: May 2003
Posts: 58 |
On the one hand this whole "non cracking PTV games" case seems
like a battle that shouldn't be. Can't stop copying or cracking of any software. But still, I think it's too bad that it has to come so far with all these long discussions and people leaving the scene. I mean if so discontent in this situation , maybe PTV could go back to cracking themselves, be a demo group, whatever, so they can still be active and appreciated. Courage was a friendly guy imho. Too bad it ended this way. (though fuckings to Mac Gyver )
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
I still have no clue why TCH & me were the first to get 'fuckings' from that friendly guy though .. |
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
...Following DCMP..
The same thoughts have crossed my mind.
Making games is a lot of work!
And recognition will mostly be low.because most games are just combinations of old ideas.
Besides,it is hard to improve on something that used to have some 20+ developers working together.
Also,demo-coding is completely different from game-coding.. ;) |
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
Quote: I still have no clue why TCH & me were the first to get 'fuckings' from that friendly guy though ..
Yeps,I think Courage was just pissed off when he read something from us.
He believes I only write nasty comments all the time.. X(
It has been a while since he visited CSDb. ;)
POMTIPOMTIDOM. |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
I never had anything to do with him, he told me to fuck off anyway... |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
CreamD maybe feels this way and defends this "particular" case because he is married to Thunderblade/Protovision's sister? That is not a problem, but surely wouldn't make his views any more objective.
It's interesting that he finds the time to rant here yet not the time to properly maintain a central news station for the C64. But that is seperate to this thread however and interesting point made earlier.
Regarding cracks, they will always exist, some people will like them, some people won't. What matters here is how people choose to live in the C64 world. Obviously some people are struggling, which is okay, but there is no one else to blame but yourself for this struggle.
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034 |
Quote: CreamD maybe feels this way and defends this "particular" case because he is married to Thunderblade/Protovision's sister? That is not a problem, but surely wouldn't make his views any more objective.
It's interesting that he finds the time to rant here yet not the time to properly maintain a central news station for the C64. But that is seperate to this thread however and interesting point made earlier.
Regarding cracks, they will always exist, some people will like them, some people won't. What matters here is how people choose to live in the C64 world. Obviously some people are struggling, which is okay, but there is no one else to blame but yourself for this struggle.
1+2 paragraph
I could say cracker's favourite phrases like you've got no clue.. but I won't ;-)
Another paragraph also doesn't have anything with proper ontopic argumentation. (btw. reread thread about Tanks 3000 again maybe you could answer some of my questions that would be more useful. ;-)
The last paragraph is also not very helpful.
There is one question for you in Reel Fishing reactions btw.
Family relations:
- Thunderblade + MacGyver = brothers
- Thunderblade => ex-PTV.
- Jana = Womana = my sister.
- Womana + Thb => married
- Me + Mac + Thb => brothers in love
It's quite funny that someone tries to analyze my motivations and make sensational conclusions typical for yellow press. So you analyze me, tell me what should I do and what I should not. Accuse me of supporting this or that. Ah yeah... does anyone want my autograph? ;-)
I wonder how Courage vs the world is connected to my Ex-PTV brother in love who is living hapilly out of the scene Fuzz? Especially when I don't know Courage personally and never communicated with him at all.
Back to Earth and back to topic please!
And as this is getting too surrealistic again, I rather say ...
EOT for me... let's crawl back under the rock. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
mmmh cant help, DCMP sending fuckings to Mac Gyver makes me smile :o) (*hugs DCMP*) |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
LOL. What a mess indeed. Seems CreamD needs to spend more time organising SIDplay compos and maintaining his website rather than expressing his muchly rejected opinions regarding matters he has never been involved with himself. Of course, this in itself is just an opinion. I don't expect the "oldie-basher" to really adhere to it. The thread is just a mixture of opinions, no real progress will be made, things will continue as they were.
Next. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Quote: LOL. What a mess indeed. Seems CreamD needs to spend more time organising SIDplay compos and maintaining his website rather than expressing his muchly rejected opinions regarding matters he has never been involved with himself. Of course, this in itself is just an opinion. I don't expect the "oldie-basher" to really adhere to it. The thread is just a mixture of opinions, no real progress will be made, things will continue as they were.
Next.
David,
Take a long good hard look at the releases you put out.
They consist of mainly unfinished productions, abandoned by their authors for any number of reasons. In many of those cases the programmers left for brighter markets, sunnier days, or simply lost interest.
I think it's safe to say that most of these previews will never see the light of day. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind that these are being released...better to see some audience than to rot away on an old disk somewhere.
The fact of the matter is, if you've been around as long as I have, and I know that you have, you KNOW the scene has gone through a transition.
The games have dried up. Undeniable.
Cracking old games has become acceptable. Undeniable.
I mean, there are only so many ways a person can justify releasing fucking Tooth Invaders just because some asshole comes along and says, "Gee I can include documentation and throw on 3 trainers. Wooot!!" :)
The ability to crunch files is now better, and of course training is very easy, as is the ability to type in "common sense" docs.
It all looks nice, I mean a smaller file, built in documentation, but if the game worked 100% to start with and was played back in 1986, I highly doubt anyone's going to go YAHOOO!!!! and dig through their dusty old disks just to replace their old version with a 20 block smaller one.
In the 'new scene' as I call it, this would have been laughed at and ridiculed had someone done it years ago. If the game works, why bother re-releasing it?
...because I have an original copy and I can beat the older version. So??? What??? I could easily go through tons of originals and put them out, trained, but they worked 100% back then - and even if its packed better, the world just does not care.
Talk about living in the past, blow the dust off some old originals rather than focus on keeping the scene alive.
Getting back on tangent here... Richard Bayliss puts out software and people ridicule it (from what I've seen). I put out an honest effort, ridiculed (although it was aimed at two sceners lol). It seems any person's attempt to create is met with ridicule because it doesn't meet someone elses standards.
One person releases an adventure game, Troep slaps an intro on it for no reason other than saving a few blocks in size. Someone makes a game to try and turn a profit from, Troep slaps an intro on it and uploads it although it was never protected.
Now my bread and butter on the scene was made on the cracking scene, and I always said that we were contributing to our own demise. That demise is now here.
The proof? Look at Reel Fishing, abandoned because Troep felt they just had to release an unprotected game meant for profit. "That's the way the scene has always worked" you say, and indeed it has.
That's why previews and re-releases is all the scene is ever going to be until people learn that it is perfectly acceptable to sit down and CODE YOUR OWN material.
Don't live on the memories of what you did 10 years ago. If you're around today, you can very well produce.
Been there done it. Bought the T-shirt. And now I'm waving goodbye. :)
You don't have to agree with my opinion, but understand you're going in reverse not forward.
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2891 |
Interesting. |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Sure.
But if people code a game on C64 and release it, they can expect it to be released, they know it will be released. Why make complaints when you knew it even before coding it?
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iopop
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 317 |
This is off topic but has to be said.
The target audience for the oldie cracking scene is not the scene as we are part of, they just clash into each other. but gamers, real gamers that doesnt give a crap about who really made the crack or who was sleeping with whom back in the 80ies.. What they do care about is that when they spend 5 hours on a game it sure as hell wont crash.
When groups stopped to care about the games from Richard Bayliss, early 2002. He created his own fake lables to release it with, most notably Blazon. Sadly, all those releases are removed from CSDb today. Would have been great for historical purposes if they were still here.
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
I have all the Blazon releases. Perhaps I should upload them. Interesting point made Iopop.
Perhaps those cracking groups releasing new games should just quit altogether? Maybe that is needed?
This thread will amount to nothing, other than the expression of opinions. Trying to stop something that has started since 1982 will be a difficult feat to achieve. |
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Style
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 17 |
Cracking old games - adding trainers, small filesize, docs, loaderscreen etc.... I can dig that. If I play a game, I look for NOS or REM releases first. Quality still rules, and if you crack something simply so there is a quality release of it, I think that is very cool. This isnt a new concept, cracker groups have been re-releasing games in fixed and quality versions since the early 90s. There's still a butt-load of games out there that lack a nice version.
Cracking previews - if it is likely to be released as a full version in the future, dont bother cracking it. If its abandoned, do it - I wanna see what it was gonna be like. If someone is currently working on the game, and has made it known that they dont want their stuff spread, you need a bullet if you crack/spread it. This includes uploading previews to csdb, wdr Im looking at you.
Cracking ptv releases - Ive heard the arguments about cracks not affecting sales etc, but at the end of the day the scene is now small enough where if you are asked not to crack stuff, you should respect that. Perhaps they hold out hope they will sell a few units.... maybe they dont want their stuff ruined with ugly intros.... its their call.
My 16c. cat to /dev/null as you see fit.
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ready.
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 441 |
I totally agree with you Style, well put. |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
This is acceptable.
But have any of the companies in the past or have Protovision emailed any of the cracker groups and asked them not to do this?
In general, with new games, Onslaught tend to steer away from them, in the case of Reel Fishing Preview - the coder Courage specifically requested that we release the preview as he was angry that a "fake group" released his Tanks 3000 (so he wasn't angry about it being cracked, but by who released it instead).
I can only speak for my own group, I will leave it to other groups to speak for themselves regarding this matter.
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Jak T Rip
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 39 |
Thank you, ready and Style.
About the rest:
I understand most of the arguments put forward by both parties. What I dont find reasonable is the argumentation itself. It does not matter if it is true that cracks dont decrease sales or whatsoever. It also does not matter if PTV or other comps mailed crackers and asked them to stop (And you know best we did, Jazzcat). What matters is results and not who has the truth or reason on his side. And the result of pissing off people is a bad one. So, please, don't do it! :) But also don't overdue your anger when somebody else pisses you off.
In general, 'fuckings' do not belong into a public forum. As said above, not everybody is a master of his own temper and there's no need in provoking. If you want to clear out something, do it directly with that person or don't. Side-kicking is not clearing out but stirring piss-offs, and is only destructive, no matter what good reasons you may have.
And yes, it's a good thing not to discourage ppl when writing comments. Let them keep face. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
"(so he wasn't angry about it being cracked, but by who rleased it instead)."
ROTFL. |
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A Life in Hell
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 204 |
Hrm, I'm pretty sure that people have had this argument before. Multiple times, in fact.
But seriously, why is anyone surprised that a commercial game producer doesn't enjoy seeing their commercial game warezed? Isn't this the very definition of what seperates them from freeware game producers?
Unlike most people, I completly understand why Courage sent me fuckings (despite me not participating in this "debate", and indeed having bought his game instead of pirating it). If game producers liked me, game over(view) wouldn't have been doing its job correctly :-p. In any case, I think this is one of those times when everyone needs to let themselves sit for a few days, and only react if they're still angry after having time to cool down. But, as someone else said, I guess not everyone is in control of their tempers at all times (the lord knows I have acted out before :-p)
(clarification, since someone mentioned it to me and made me think that maybe it's not 100% clear to non-native speakers: I have nothing against protovision. indeed, i am looking forward to a few of their upcoming games. i've said this before, but everyone ignores it when I don't like some aspect or another of some games... go figure)
(clarification #2: yes, i know that protovision isn't one monolithic entity, but when one becomes a company or group, one does have a single public face. that's life :)) |
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fade
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 290 |
But why in craps name did i get a mention, who the hell is courage and why doesnt he have any? Maybe the Wizard of Wor can help him?
His mum has a steel trap in an orifice, it broke three of my fingers. |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Am i the only person feeling left out 'cos he wasn't on the fuckings list...? |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Don't Copy That Floppy
http://tinyurl.com/nnfqy
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
@ tmr: maybe you should talk to DCMP! *hugs here* *hugs there* |
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hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474 |
Quote: Am i the only person feeling left out 'cos he wasn't on the fuckings list...?
dont be sad, you are always on top of my fuckings list ;) |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quote: dont be sad, you are always on top of my fuckings list ;)
Awwww... you say the sweetest things. =-)
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1153 |
Btw. read from GTW that this was an Amiga game originally. If so, were the rights for conversion properly acquired? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
yes i am sure they have also asked namco/atari/whoever owns the rights to "pacman" these days so they can make a game called "pacmania" :=P |
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iopop
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 317 |
but... Pac-Mania + can be found here.. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
and also ... Bomb Mania +2 |
