| |
CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034 |
Release id #8546 : ArachnoPhobia #28
I don't know what others but I consider putting releases into the internet C64 scene database and not "releasing them" (at least on internet) is a bad behaviour. Role and Spiders Crew, please don't do that.
Roman |
|
| |
Commander
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 106 |
Sorry CREAMD, but ArachnoPhobia has been released already!!!!
|
| |
Commander
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 106 |
It even has been spread on the net one day (20 April) before your posting of this message! Don't compare official releasedates with the real spreading of a product, otherwise you have to complain many times about this. Have a look at the Rolean Sid #01 comment from me, there is some additional info why releasedates aren't always the same as the spreaddates. People who swap (snailmail) or who swapped in the past, know this kind of spread-system.
|
| |
Oxidy
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 80 |
If it has been released, why not supply a download link??
|
| |
Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
Still I think that you're hurting yourself by adding stuff before a download link is available: People see a new production on the latest releases list, go to the db entry and want to download it. Having stuff on the latest releases list definitely helps increasing the popularity of your mag. They might not remember that it was "released" couple of weeks ago when the download link is finally available... ;-) |
| |
jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
I don't get the excuse of a pre-release for snail-mailers, or it is some kinda prestige-quiestion I don't know about, like, getting the product earlier and climbing up the swappers charts?
The snailmailers wouldn't know about the existance of this release anyhow, as long they don't get it in hand, so what's the friggin point?
Oh I got it, the fact that the mailtraders 'll have this fabulous music-colly much earlier, will start to freak out those with the inet connections, and snailmail will raise again, just like the south?
Personally, I tidily don't care if I'll get this kind of c64 releases before or after two weeks from the others, undoubtedly without even a minimal affection to get into deep discussions about this topic, I'd still awfully prefer to see products added to this database _after_ their release, and not before.
And Commander, I'd only like to be well-disposed when drawing up your attention that there's no "It's Going To Be Released by:", or "Will Be Released by:" option on the release-pages. |
| |
Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
Haha, word! |
| |
Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
The first spreading date is IN FACT the release date. Inventing an "official" release date on a later day is unneccessary and lame bullshit. |
| |
Derision
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 69 |
Quote: I don't get the excuse of a pre-release for snail-mailers, or it is some kinda prestige-quiestion I don't know about, like, getting the product earlier and climbing up the swappers charts?
The snailmailers wouldn't know about the existance of this release anyhow, as long they don't get it in hand, so what's the friggin point?
Oh I got it, the fact that the mailtraders 'll have this fabulous music-colly much earlier, will start to freak out those with the inet connections, and snailmail will raise again, just like the south?
Personally, I tidily don't care if I'll get this kind of c64 releases before or after two weeks from the others, undoubtedly without even a minimal affection to get into deep discussions about this topic, I'd still awfully prefer to see products added to this database _after_ their release, and not before.
And Commander, I'd only like to be well-disposed when drawing up your attention that there's no "It's Going To Be Released by:", or "Will Be Released by:" option on the release-pages.
The function of a pre-release for the mailtraders is because mailtrading is mucho grande slower than online distribution (few days for mailing to the trader, then a few days for the trader to mail it out again vs. sticking it online and having it immediately available)... so by releasing it to the mailtraders early, it allows them to get it out to who they need to get it out to at the same time as it is released online. I.e., everyone gets it at roughly the same time.
Er... at least, I think that's the concept.
That said, I'd like to see releases added to the database after their release, too. It only makes sense... because there can always be delays or problems with the actual release date which would then need to be updated, at nauseum. And, y'know, accurate download links are a plus, too. |
| |
CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034 |
Quote: It even has been spread on the net one day (20 April) before your posting of this message! Don't compare official releasedates with the real spreading of a product, otherwise you have to complain many times about this. Have a look at the Rolean Sid #01 comment from me, there is some additional info why releasedates aren't always the same as the spreaddates. People who swap (snailmail) or who swapped in the past, know this kind of spread-system.
If something is released today it should have todays release date.
|
| |
Commander
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 106 |
Quote: If something is released today it should have todays release date.
Well, I shall try to keep in mind that most of the Role warez will be put on the internet (and in the database) later (after their official releasedate). But I keep on working with spreading things before the releasedate (mentioned in the product) in the snailmail-scene (like it has been for decades in the past). But that's only a matter for the snailmail scene and not for the internet-only guys/girls. |
| |
Oxidy
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 80 |
What's the point with keeping the snailmail-scene alive?? Any "snailmailer" can download all new releases from this site and numerous FTP's like Padua's in a jiffy...
Keeping the c64 alive is one thing, but a superfluous profession like this - what for? Nostalgia?
|
| |
Commander
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 106 |
Oxidy, still not everybody has internet! I have contact with many guys without internet. Like I have said before, the internet-only guys won't see what happens outside the internet. C64 is still also part in the snailmail-scene, and who says that snailmail-swapping isn't nice to do...?
|
| |
CyberBrain
Administrator
Posts: 392 |
word. much more personal (though, takes more time) |
| |
Oxidy
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 80 |
Point taken.
I've been swapping myself in the early days, and back then it was great fun. I remember running home from school on my lunch break to check the mailbox for packages. ;)
What is it that I, as an "Internet-only guy", can't see??
|
| |
zdzisek
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 33 |
I am "an Internet guy" and still enjoy the snail swapping though. Now call me mad. ;-) |
| |
Perff
Administrator
Posts: 1665 |
I got a suggestion.
I could make it so that the releases shown in 'Latest Releases' ONLY shows releases with a release date which is in the past (or on the current date).
What do you think?
|
| |
CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034 |
It's a good idea. It will prevent abuse of latest releases feature. I can imagine someone putting release date 10 days in advance which will allow him to have release in latest releases until the day of the release is really reached.. quite sick but how it is workinkg now it can be very easily misused for "promotion" of releases.
Roman |
| |
TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: I am "an Internet guy" and still enjoy the snail swapping though. Now call me mad. ;-)
Mad Magnate.
Now that does have a nice ring to it. |
| |
Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Quote: The function of a pre-release for the mailtraders is because mailtrading is mucho grande slower than online distribution (few days for mailing to the trader, then a few days for the trader to mail it out again vs. sticking it online and having it immediately available)... so by releasing it to the mailtraders early, it allows them to get it out to who they need to get it out to at the same time as it is released online. I.e., everyone gets it at roughly the same time.
Er... at least, I think that's the concept.
That said, I'd like to see releases added to the database after their release, too. It only makes sense... because there can always be delays or problems with the actual release date which would then need to be updated, at nauseum. And, y'know, accurate download links are a plus, too.
EXACTLY.
A *LOT* of people still do not have the internet. So this pre-release not only keeps the mail-scene alive (which people can't really comment on if they are not swapping now) and spread the release to the largest number of people almost simultaneously. Not everyone is on the net and I don't blame them either. The net is cool and useful, but the snail-scene and BBS-scene have a completely different and unique atmosphere. Some productions prefer to not only please the net scene (where the majority is) but also the other scenes.
Not all productions I am involved with are spread via mail first (a good example is first release cracks, even in the old days, as they had to go to the boards first, now the ftps) but I'm more than happy to allow the mail market to enjoy at the same time as the net people. :)
|
| |
Commander
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 106 |
Quote: I got a suggestion.
I could make it so that the releases shown in 'Latest Releases' ONLY shows releases with a release date which is in the past (or on the current date).
What do you think?
It's a very good idea!!! In this way snailmail people can keep on using later releasedates as official releasedate and nobody got critiscized anymore because of the use of a snailmail-system which excists decades. I am glad about this idea which gives also a big respect to the snailmail scene which is still excisting.
|
| |
jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
Yeah right: mail-scene, pre-releases, snail-mail system, etc... But it still does not explains why do you add releases to CSDb *before* their release-date? In fact, most of us assume why, but let's just pretend we have no clue and continue this discussion... |
| |
CyberBrain
Administrator
Posts: 392 |
If Perff changes the Latest Releases to only show releases that's releases today or before today, i really don't see why anyone would have a problem with commander adding his releases some days in advance. (ofcause not before the release is finished, but as far as i understand he hasn't done that) |
| |
Commander
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 106 |
Quote: Yeah right: mail-scene, pre-releases, snail-mail system, etc... But it still does not explains why do you add releases to CSDb *before* their release-date? In fact, most of us assume why, but let's just pretend we have no clue and continue this discussion...
just have a look at the snailmail-scene and their history...
i think there have been more than enough explanation on several places in this database.
|
| |
jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
Aw, come on, I was swapping with more than 50 contacts from '93, and decided to quit mail-swapping after numerous incidents with the post, around the end of '98 (at that time I already had net connection for a year or two). Just to make clear, I've nothing against the mail-scene or swapping.
But Commander, you just force me to repeat myself again and again by expressing my approach, not to the mail-scene, but to (and now read carefully please) adding releases to CSDb before their release-date. Especially two weeks ahead. I just can't realise what's the deal with that. And y'know, that's all...
|
| |
Commander
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 106 |
Quote: Aw, come on, I was swapping with more than 50 contacts from '93, and decided to quit mail-swapping after numerous incidents with the post, around the end of '98 (at that time I already had net connection for a year or two). Just to make clear, I've nothing against the mail-scene or swapping.
But Commander, you just force me to repeat myself again and again by expressing my approach, not to the mail-scene, but to (and now read carefully please) adding releases to CSDb before their release-date. Especially two weeks ahead. I just can't realise what's the deal with that. And y'know, that's all...
I add Role releases from the moment they are spread by snailmail! And also as told before, the spreading to snailmail mostly happens before the official releasedate to keep the snailmail swappers a bit updated at the same time as internet!!
So the things have been released already, only the releasedate has been set a bit furder for the internet and for the new stuff spread by post. Sorry, but another explanation I can't give.
Anyway, I keep on doing like always, whatever you think.
|
| |
Oxidy
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 80 |
Commander,
There's just one glitch. You've set the release-date to May 1st, but when clicking on the release it's possible to download for us "internet-guys". This doesn't go too great with your arguments.
You must be the only swapper I've heard of that send out by using surface mail?? Normally it doesn't take two weeks for any countries postal service to deliver.
To me it smells like you just wan't the extra exposure by having your release shown in the latest release section for two extra weeks.
Regardless, I welcome the feature posted by Perff earlier in this thread.
|
| |
jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
Commander, you're constantly referring to the drawbacks of the mail-scene, although I'm pretty sure that the snailmailers won't be in any kind of disadvantage by getting a certain release a week after it got out to air on the net. C64 productions have some kind of expiring-periods or what?
Explain me then, why it is so important "to keep the snailmail swappers a bit updated at the same time as internet", as if I follow that logic, you swagger with the same recon to the "inet-scene" when we don't get that release in the same time as the mailtraders, just a week after?
Whether you'll keep on doing as always or not, I'm finished with this topic, I already spent here much more time as I intended to, and what's the point in talking to the air anyway. |
| |
T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
That's something i've had trouble getting my head around in the past; if the mailtraders are generally cut off from the 'net, how will they know if they're getting stuff later...? Why not save a lot of mucking about and not put a release date on the product! =-) |
| |
WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 886 |
When I see a new release on cdsb I want to click on it and dl, watch it and enjoy it (or not sometimes..). Imagine how it would be if we would have a 'private' demo compo between the big groups and only spread amongst ourselves... (only between the groups that actually competed). I'd add it as a release to cdsb, but no-one would ever see it (though it has been released 'privately').. That would suck bigtime wouldn't it? Actually we were joking about something like this on breakpoint, but we could easily do it ofcourse..
short : A release is only a release if it's available to EVERYONE. Don't add if it's _not_ available.
wrap |
| |
Commander
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 106 |
Quote: Commander,
There's just one glitch. You've set the release-date to May 1st, but when clicking on the release it's possible to download for us "internet-guys". This doesn't go too great with your arguments.
You must be the only swapper I've heard of that send out by using surface mail?? Normally it doesn't take two weeks for any countries postal service to deliver.
To me it smells like you just wan't the extra exposure by having your release shown in the latest release section for two extra weeks.
Regardless, I welcome the feature posted by Perff earlier in this thread.
Oxidy,
In Belgium we have the bad luck of a bad-working postservice in many parts of the country. Sometimes a thing get earlier on the net because somebody else has his hands in the spreading, that's why not all has a later date. Some guys doesn't work like that. Oxidy, do you really think that I have everything in my hands...? ArachnoPhobia is an example : it is made by Spiders-crew and Role, but the total finish (and first spread) and organisation happens by Spiders-crew (who have another thinking in spreading things because they are not too much involved in the snailmail scene anymore, they don't care that much about it). It is nice to think very bad about me, to think that I want an extra exposure and so... Do you know what, if some of you think this, don't bother anymore because all where I have my hands in concerning the main spread, I won't put a releasedate in this databasde anymore!!! I thought this was adatabase for information, not some discussionboard about what is a good system or not in the scene in general. I thought that everybody does what he like and I like to do some things like in the old days and some things on my own way. Sorry for you that it doesn't fit in your dreamworld...
I keep on doing it my way, but I will try not to disturbe you all in this database with our spreading-system. Spoken about smelling, this smells all about simply hacking on someone/some group... In the past nobody cared, suddenly two reactions from Jailbird and CreaMD, and everybody starts to hack. Hey, is it allowed to have a releaseparty for the Commodore One, because it has been out already...?
To all,
You all seem suddenly to be disturbed by something done by an unimportant someone/group. Don't bother anymore, I will try to keep this database as the last informated about things which I have the main spreading in , so nobody get to be disturbed anymore. And to prevent more complaining about stupid things on me, I won't add more information (info concerning things which are not about Role or my former groups) to this database (except the Role stuff, but later when I am the main spreader). I don't want that bad things got repeated like in the past (when some guys found themselves more important than others because they are better in some things). I am not that good, Role is not that good like some others, but I feel fine in the way we support the scene. We don't care if it is not that good, we do our best as we can. This is my LAST reaction to this theme.
Enjoy the laughing or your misunderstanding or your disrespect for some things other people care...
Bye.
|
| |
Commander
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 106 |
By the way, these releasedates are also mentioned in our products, so do we have to lie about the date-information?
I think that I will erase all date-information about all Role products and my former group products, because some people don't like the facts other people use.
Good luck with this database, which isn't a database into my eyes anymore in this way of all these critics.
|
| |
Oxidy
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 80 |
Commander,
I don't think you're worth less than anyone else, and you being a member of Role has nothing to do with anything.
You said it was your last reaction, but I'm writing this knowing you'll read what I'm saying.
I hope you'll continue adding your releases to this database. I have nothing to do with it, and don't want it to be damaged just because I offended you. Perff and many others has put a lot of effort into it, and CSDB is worth using. Your releases will be added anyway, and it's better that you do it, than someone else.
In case you only had good intentions with the late release date, then I said more than I should.
/oxidy |
| |
CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034 |
Quote: Commander,
I don't think you're worth less than anyone else, and you being a member of Role has nothing to do with anything.
You said it was your last reaction, but I'm writing this knowing you'll read what I'm saying.
I hope you'll continue adding your releases to this database. I have nothing to do with it, and don't want it to be damaged just because I offended you. Perff and many others has put a lot of effort into it, and CSDB is worth using. Your releases will be added anyway, and it's better that you do it, than someone else.
In case you only had good intentions with the late release date, then I said more than I should.
/oxidy
Exactly!
I did my comment in good faith. My aim (and I'm sure that's also the case with Noname's and Padua's projects) is to get the scene communication and spreading of things work better. When I see that something goes wrong I point it out.I check CSDB main page once a day. And two latest releases never change because they are "officially" released on 5.may.
As that 5 line info about latest releases should show the current situation. If anyone added 3 more releases with date shifted towards future, I would have to click on "Latest Releases" link to get info about the real situation. I'm sure that is not how it was inteded to work.
Roman
|
| |
jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
Commander, your last post deserves some (now really) final words, especially as you run onto a siding and steadily misinterpret my reactions. So you feel that I attacked you just cuz I find you "unimportant" or myself better than you, but seems you never noticed that I'm maybe the only one from the "top10" graphicians that always tried to help out with a logo or two those who were/are in some circles considered as "retardscene" or "lame", like the Spiders Crew, Arachnophobia, or... TMR ;D
Naah, dude you don't have to freak out like that, just to reconsider why are a bunch of people annoyed by your "inventions", or some things you do and say. And if that doesn't ring a bell, well, tough luck... |
| |
Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
There is no problem with stuff being released on the mail-scene 1-2 weeks before it pops up on the internet. If you like doing so, do so. The point is that the release date is definately! the date when it gets spread FIRST, whether on snail mail or internet it doesn't matter. |
| |
T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Oy, Jailbird! [pokes thumbs in ears, sticks tongue out, waggles fingers] Pppphhhhhpppppptttttttt!!!! =-) |
| |
CyberBrain
Administrator
Posts: 392 |
I think the tone in here has been a little harsh.
But i understand it, coz' if Commander was just adding
his stuff before the release date to promote himself
it would be fucking lame, and he deserved to be attacked.
But it doesn't sound like that on Commander. He was doing
what he found to be the right way to do it, and he has
explained it. (you're free to think he is a fucking liar
but you don't have any reason to)
But as rOuGh pointed out, the release date must be the
day it's FIRST released, no matter if it's released
on the internet or in the snail-mail scene first.
(or i have missed the meaning of a release-date)
But then again, if you send it to your exclusive spreaders
the releasedate is (ofcause) after the date you sent it
to 'em + you give them time to send it to their contacts.
(though 2 weeks seems like being a long time - but i dunno)
However, now that the latest releases doesn't show releases
that's gonna be released after today, is it such a totally
big problem? As long as it isn't abuse, in the sense that
he added the release before it was finished..?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
@commander:
i just don't understand why it was spread on
the net the 20th of April, when you say that it's the
internet-release date you put into CSDb.
(and release-date is, as rOuGh pointed out, not just the
internet-release date.. then there would be no releases
from 198x for example) Maybe just a mistake?
You are setting the official release dates later, because
your wanna give your spreaders time to spread, right? |
| |
CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034 |
Believe it or not (couldn't find better phrase ;-) I didn't want to accuse anyone but I must have pointed what I think was not right use of the latest releases feature. I've swapped with Commander (and never officially stopped to swap with him), I've even personally met him, and I really respect him. DOT
And hey I even thank him for the donation for last year's Forever 2002 organising which helped us to avoid financial loses (I hope I'm not doing anything wrong revealing this).
RESPEKT!
...but that doesn't mean I will close my eyes when I disagree with something.
Now when the problem is solved let's move on... |
| |
Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: |
Apart from the release date issue I don't understand the problem. There are plenty of other releases that don't have download links. If it is released but not online I think it is ok to add it to this database. I appreciate the time involved with the mail scene and most of my group are postal mail people. Trouble I have is time. It takes a couple of weeks to get from Oz to Europe. Even within Oz it can sometimes be next day mail or take a week to reach the place because not everyone lives in some major city with major airlines.
People have their parties, why not let mail people be first with their spreading? |
| |
Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
Quote: Apart from the release date issue I don't understand the problem. There are plenty of other releases that don't have download links. If it is released but not online I think it is ok to add it to this database. I appreciate the time involved with the mail scene and most of my group are postal mail people. Trouble I have is time. It takes a couple of weeks to get from Oz to Europe. Even within Oz it can sometimes be next day mail or take a week to reach the place because not everyone lives in some major city with major airlines.
People have their parties, why not let mail people be first with their spreading?
Hello Nathan!
I am totally surprised to read such positive lines!
I totally agree with you to 100%!!!
Well, if you send letters to Australia by airmail it shouldn't take 4 weeks, maybe 10 days (from my experience).
Well, I also like the mail swapping scene even if I stopped to be a part of at the end of 2000.
That's it! :)
All the best!
Bye!
Joerg |
