| |
jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
Regarding my picture infront of Vandalism News #73 and my thoughts about the C64 scene
Since there's some "nocopy" circlejerking around the intro picture, let me clear a few things.
- It was made only for fun, solely for my own pleasure. I decided to make a "Compopic" spoof as I was bored on a weekend, found two pictures on the internet, glued them together in Photoshop, and used the picture as a reference for the pixelling. Yep, I have used the old "Hein-method" from Dutch Breeze, namely to have an 8x8 grid on the original on a spare monitor, and then base my work on that, as I didn't want to fuck around with the proportions, but just to start with pixelling, which is, to this day, a really relaxing and soothing activity for me. I didn't gave a fuck about the picture's authenticity as I never thought people will care too much about it. If I wanted to hide something, I'd use reference images which couldn't be very easily found with a simple Google Images search. I have made plenty of "no copy" pictures with provided workstages in my 30 years on the scene anyway.
- It was *never* meant to be a C64 release, not even for the "just for fun" Compopic Competition, as I couldn't care less about it, or the C64 scene in general. I have simply uploaded it about 3 years ago to Facebook only, just for some of my friends to see, have a laugh about it, and that was all.
- For some reason, Jazzcat asked for the picture for the intro, and I said well why not, I don't really care what you do with. Pity I forgot to tell him not to credit me.
Unfortunately, some people started sharing it all around Facebook, and it got traction. And then others started treating it as if it was released on a compo or something, accusing me of cheating or whatever, I couldn't even follow their hectic line of thoughts. I didn't participated on a party competition since 2014 as I was finished with them once and for all. Whatever I did on the C64 after that was only for fun and for wasting time, maybe about trying out new techniques, but never about impressing anyone, as I have grown out about that mindset a long time ago. Regrettably, it seems that some people still haven't.
Fun is long lost from the C64 scene, and what's happening here just sinks that fact into me even more. People are regarding it as some kind of a dick measuring competition, and try to find every little reason to take a shit on an another person. It's not just childish, but really really sad too.
Once again, I am disappointed about this community and even more discouraged to be an active part of it ever again. |
|
| |
Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2839 |
Did you say "Facebook"? =) |
| |
Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933 |
Did you say "Hein-method"? Heh, anyway, don't let them spoil your fun. We're too old for that shit. |
| |
Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2839 |
Indeed. :)
And for demos and diskmags, anything should go for graphics.
(Ideas about compopics are still very controversial, it seems.)
Problem seems to be that somebody took the pic out of context, and then some Facebook lamers did their Greater-Internet-Fuckwad-thing. |
| |
hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
Parrot wins again. Probably he made the scene's most influential pic of all time. |
| |
Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 552 |
Hey,
Apologies for anything I said on FB that caused offence… in my defence, it wasn’t that #nocopy was a problem… I was more backing up what others had said, that some of the comments on the pic were implying that it was a hand drawn original etc etc…
We’ve had such ourselves in G*P - and even had those in competitions (at least one was disqualified for such)… eg. Facet’s Lobo-Kraken in X Marks the Spot, Jon Egg’s Thanos (it won the Gubbdata gfx compo initially I believe - and was later disqualified.. Jon, like myself, didn’t know about the whole #nocopy movement at the time).
Your pic wasn’t in a compo, of course, and was simply used at the front of VN. Nothing wrong with that at all and, actually, a great way to create such a huge pic in short time (I appreciate that there was still a decent amount of work to do on it other than whatever was done with the source photos).
Apologies again - and if you can bear with us grumpy souls, it’d be awesome to see you return to the scene. |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
we're glad you come here to tell us how you dont give a fuck about us, and what childis dickfucks we are shitting oneachother. Atleast you are unlike us and spread the power of love :) |
| |
Dano
Registered: Jul 2004
Posts: 226 |
i for myself never bothered how arnold did manage to produce those two plasma images for stacked in such short time. it's great work and atwork he delivered - and that's what counts for me.
as for compopictures and big time wins.. wiring a picture, changing some pixels here and there sucks. repainting/repixeling an existing thing 1:1 in c64 specs is hard for me.
in my perfect world the origninal images and all what comes after that is craftswork of the artist itself.
but where to draw the line. if there's a car you can't really invent the wheel - sure. but even there it's possible to make complex changes.
long story short. we are here for funsies and everything. nobody wins anything on anyone for drama and shit.
even longer story even short: i'm a huge jailbird fan, and it would suck if there were NO jailbird artworks coming never more.
stick with us, arnold <3 |
| |
jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
Quoting Oswaldwe're glad you come here to tell us how you dont give a fuck about us, and what childis dickfucks we are shitting oneachother. Atleast you are unlike us and spread the power of love :)
Re-read what have I wrote, as it seems that you couldn't interpret it correctly.
And even if I don't care about being active on the scene right now, that doesn't mean that I can't have an opinion about it, and share my thoughts when some of you obviously don't realize it that you are acting like dickheads. A little assistance could benefit you in recognizing this, hence my post.
You are one of the main reasons I've opened this topic. Could you be more hypocritical than this, when you surely know how many pictures you gave me, or to Leon, or to whoever, to retouch it for your demos? I could count on one hand how many original artwork you have in your releases.
And then look at Edge of Disgrace, where every single graphics of mine is a "no copy", and almost all of my single releases since EoD are originals, provided with workstages.
Then I make something which wasn't even intended as a scene release, and you find the way to berate me.
Just fuck off, please. |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
Quote: Quoting Oswaldwe're glad you come here to tell us how you dont give a fuck about us, and what childis dickfucks we are shitting oneachother. Atleast you are unlike us and spread the power of love :)
Re-read what have I wrote, as it seems that you couldn't interpret it correctly.
And even if I don't care about being active on the scene right now, that doesn't mean that I can't have an opinion about it, and share my thoughts when some of you obviously don't realize it that you are acting like dickheads. A little assistance could benefit you in recognizing this, hence my post.
You are one of the main reasons I've opened this topic. Could you be more hypocritical than this, when you surely know how many pictures you gave me, or to Leon, or to whoever, to retouch it for your demos? I could count on one hand how many original artwork you have in your releases.
And then look at Edge of Disgrace, where every single graphics of mine is a "no copy", and almost all of my single releases since EoD are originals, provided with workstages.
Then I make something which wasn't even intended as a scene release, and you find the way to berate me.
Just fuck off, please.
I just posted that pic there to show its not an original, had no intention to drag you down personally. To me you are a great gfxian, and a nice chap on parties with wich we always shared beers and lot of laughs. Being with you on one of the X's was a blast :) |
| |
Shine
Registered: Jul 2012
Posts: 327 |
Quoting jailbirdOde to Parrot's Compopic
Coming back to Compopic
makes my life just better
I smile and laugh, enjoy myself
even in bad weather.
Thank you, Parrot, for your image!
The samurai is fine.
And the tiger: he is lovely.
This is grand design!
The pixelling is on high level
I'd like to paint like you.
The tiger's paw is so amazing,
and his face is too.
Your Compopic is legendary,
I check it every day.
I will vote with highest points,
whatever others say.
<3 |
| |
jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
Quote: I just posted that pic there to show its not an original, had no intention to drag you down personally. To me you are a great gfxian, and a nice chap on parties with wich we always shared beers and lot of laughs. Being with you on one of the X's was a blast :)
3 years ago, when I've uploaded the image on Facebook, I have already stated that it's not an original. Never wanted to hide it, the references are super easy to find on Google.
99%, no, 100% of the graphicians here copied something in their active scene life, even Electric, so I don't really understand why did you singled me out, as I have never seen you posting the originals of other graphicians when their copied graphics appeared somewhere.
I'd understand all of this if I have competed with it somewhere, but you could go back in my scene history and count how many copies I competed with on parties. There were only a few of them in the beginning of my "scene career", but heck, I think you might even seen me painting my compo picture live on the first day of Arok 2007 - out of my bare mind, without any references.
I really really regretted that I've donated this picture for a scene release. It was on a much better place sitting on my Facebook feed for three years, bothering no one at all. |
| |
Shine
Registered: Jul 2012
Posts: 327 |
In my opinion it was a fun project of Jailbird from the beginning.
I don't understand the whole drama at all... |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
Quote: 3 years ago, when I've uploaded the image on Facebook, I have already stated that it's not an original. Never wanted to hide it, the references are super easy to find on Google.
99%, no, 100% of the graphicians here copied something in their active scene life, even Electric, so I don't really understand why did you singled me out, as I have never seen you posting the originals of other graphicians when their copied graphics appeared somewhere.
I'd understand all of this if I have competed with it somewhere, but you could go back in my scene history and count how many copies I competed with on parties. There were only a few of them in the beginning of my "scene career", but heck, I think you might even seen me painting my compo picture live on the first day of Arok 2007 - out of my bare mind, without any references.
I really really regretted that I've donated this picture for a scene release. It was on a much better place sitting on my Facebook feed for three years, bothering no one at all.
A handful of times I have done this already, as I said its not personal just to show. i dont really give a fuck if something was copied because I am not a graphician. It doesnt bothers anyone, its a great pic. |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11108 |
I haven't even seen the Pic, but i like the silly drama. Thumbs up! |
| |
MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1055 |
Using photo references for art has been a thing for what, a hundred years or so now? I've never understood why some sceners get so upset about it. There's still a world of difference between someone with no skill (like me) doing a bad wire job and a proper artist who masters composition, color theory, and technical execution. |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
I posted the "original" pic on FB without comments, its not me upset, but JB read into it something that wasnt there. I'm sorry Arnold, hope to meet at some party and relive those laughs :) |
| |
jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
Quote: I posted the "original" pic on FB without comments, its not me upset, but JB read into it something that wasnt there. I'm sorry Arnold, hope to meet at some party and relive those laughs :)
Eh, you weren't the only one who was calling me out about the picture being a copy, scanned, wired or whatever. |
| |
Shine
Registered: Jul 2012
Posts: 327 |
He-Man Junior ...
... approves this thread! |
| |
Carrion
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317 |
@JB regarding the pic in question I'd say:
It was about time! ;)
Technically, copy or not I like it. Classic JB style - please do more this time around. |
| |
Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 512 |
Quote:(...)People are regarding it as some kind of a dick measuring competition
asking for a friend: when's the deadline of this compo? :) |
| |
hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
Quote: Eh, you weren't the only one who was calling me out about the picture being a copy, scanned, wired or whatever.
Mostly as a response to people sayin' "Wow. Did you do this on free hand?". I said: No, he didn't, but it's a darn good job. And I stand by that. God damn good shit. |
| |
Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2839 |
It's the result that counts, imho.
Sure you can handpixel everything, but you can also write a novel on slates using chisel and hammer.
From what i keep hearing from Amiga and PC etc. scenes, they have left the craft/artisanry discussion long behind, and finding a fresh original motif is the actual difficult part they thrive for to achieve art.
When you have that, all tools are fair game. |
| |
Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933 |
Quote: It's the result that counts, imho.
Sure you can handpixel everything, but you can also write a novel on slates using chisel and hammer.
From what i keep hearing from Amiga and PC etc. scenes, they have left the craft/artisanry discussion long behind, and finding a fresh original motif is the actual difficult part they thrive for to achieve art.
When you have that, all tools are fair game.
I doubt that, tbh. Why would they go as far as to have a flawless execution of the motif? Might as well come up with a brilliant idea and forget about it to move on to the next idea.
Of course, everyone has their own motivation for doing computer 'art'. |
| |
Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2839 |
Quoting HeinI doubt that, tbh. Why would they go as far as to have a flawless execution of the motif? Might as well come up with a brilliant idea and forget about it to move on to the next idea.
Of course, everyone has their own motivation for doing computer 'art'. Once you have mastered the craft, you can create art. =)
I mean, the used tools aren't much of a discussion over there (at least not source of controversy but maybe admiration), afaict.
Still, the result is what counts. Ideas without a result are just ideas.
Oh, but AI-created art is controversial, yes. =) |
| |
Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933 |
You're right, the road towards the result transforms an idea from being just an idea. The road, the time wasting, the challenge, the struggle is what we're working with. |
| |
Carrion
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317 |
Quote: You're right, the road towards the result transforms an idea from being just an idea. The road, the time wasting, the challenge, the struggle is what we're working with.
Totally agree Hein!
but I will also add "fun" part to your sentence above.
So: the idea, the road, challanges, result, time wasting and fun is my definitions of the demoscene. |
| |
TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2062 |
I'm not on any anti-social media at all (other than CSDb that is), and I've never had the feeling of missing anything.
So, Jailbird, do or don't whatever you want, but please don't come _here_(!) and complain like this:
Quote:Fun is long lost from the C64 scene, and what's happening here just sinks that fact into me even more.
when "here" doesn't mean CSDb but Facebook.
C64 Scene is impossible to define in a way even half of us would agree on, but in my world facebook has nothing to do with it.
First of all just don't give a damn in general
and most of all /o\ don't do Facebook, easy as that.
And about ppl very interested in dick size, we might have a..holes here, too - like everywhere else in the world. Maybe life would be too boring without them.
PS: And the pic in question is just great, anyone who doesn't see that should go f... themselves |
| |
El Jefe
Registered: Jul 2005
Posts: 68 |
Quoting TheRykSo, Jailbird, do or don't whatever you want, but please don't come _here_(!) and complain like this:
Quote:
Fun is long lost from the C64 scene, and what's happening here just sinks that fact into me even more.
when "here" doesn't mean CSDb but Facebook.
I don't think Arnold is referring to the discussion about his picture on Facebook. To me it seems much more that he is referring to the way he feels about the c-64 community gathered here on csdb.
Shocker/Onslaught |
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1627 |
Nice title of this thread. Sounds a bit like some of those 18th century books and pamphlets, with titles such as "An Essay on Quantity; Occasioned by Reading a Treatise in which Simple and Compound Ratios are Applied to Virtue and Merit" or "First Truths, and the Origin of our Opinions, Explained. With an Enquiry Into the Sentiments of Modern Philosophers, Also, a Detection of the Plagiarism, Concealment, and Ingratitude of the Doctors Reid, Beattie, and Oswald" and stuff like that. |
| |
HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 716 |
@Frantic: Great demo names actually! |
| |
Perplex
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 254 |
Quote: @Frantic: Great demo names actually!
The top demos list on here looks like it's sorted by title length now, so perhaps not such a silly idea if that's your goal... |
| |
CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034 |
Quote: I haven't even seen the Pic, but i like the silly drama. Thumbs up!
One can't be cool and butthurt at the same time. |
