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Forums > C64 Pixeling > a plea from an old schooler
2010-07-17 16:03
STE'86

Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 274
a plea from an old schooler

please dont use modified PAL emulating screenshots for pictures on this site.

people may want to use this site to download unmodified c64 art in gif or png format with pure pixel definition.

if they want to see the stuff in highly debatable pal emulation mode people can download the PRG files and view them in that mode on an emulator.

Thanks
Steve
 
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2010-07-19 21:13
Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5007
CSDB is democratic, so Groepaz is right when saying people should decide about standards. There's no twisting here, you're seem to be bringing too much fighting spirit from AA. It's all cool, we're just having a discussion :)

you should also realise Groepaz is talking with the database integrity, maintainability etc. foremost in mind.

ps: wow, I'm defending Groppie, strange things can happen.

ps2: and some nitpicking: "As for things being different on each machine, of course that's true, but that just means its more important "to the artist" to be able to use the palette they think matches the best." as artists had no way of adjusting people's TV sets back in the 80s, why should they be able to do it today?
2010-07-19 21:49
JCB
Account closed

Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 241
Quoting Oswald
CSDB is democratic, so Groepaz is right when saying people should decide about standards. There's no twisting here, you're seem to be bringing too much fighting spirit from AA. It's all cool, we're just having a discussion :)


Really? I'm not seeing much democracy here, a lot of this is the way we do it, though. Other people apart from me have expressed the need for "clean" screenshots in this thread as well. This is one of the things I'm getting pissed about, we all know 95% of the stuff IS like that anyway, it's all been resolved, it's a moot point but people keep bringing it up.

As for bringing the fighting spirit, it's not that at all, it's a defence against people continually dragging the thread back into an argument territory every time it's all been agreed. Constantly saying "you demanded" when we haven't or making out we've suggested things we haven't is just causing more argument. You know me by now, I'm quite happy to admit when I'm wrong but I won't let someone snipe at me for no reason and let it lie, so if people keep sniping I'll keep defending, there's no "fight" to it as far as I'm concerned. Once again our requests were agreed to by tlr a loooong way back and anything anyone else thinks we were after is just coming from their own head ;)

Quoting Oswald

you should also realise Groepaz is talking with the database integrity, maintainability etc. foremost in mind.


Did you not read all my posts? That was one of the reasons I suggested it. The only problem I could forsee in a "gallery" database or the database as it is atm is if there were loads of PAL filtered images that needed to be re-pal'd when there's a new emulation. Are you going to go through all the PRG/D64, rip the bitmaps to re-filter the images? How could letting an artist upload an image with their own palette effect it?

Quoting Oswald

ps: wow, I'm defending Groppie, strange things can happen.

ps2: and some nitpicking: "As for things being different on each machine, of course that's true, but that just means its more important "to the artist" to be able to use the palette they think matches the best." as artists had no way of adjusting people's TV sets back in the 80s, why should they be able to do it today?


That just sounds like a lack of respect for what the artist produced? As I said earlier, would you recolour the mona lisa for example because the image you have in your head is that of only seeing it on TV and never in real life? There should be (especially if the site gets classed as a repository for images) some way to see the image AS INTENDED, anyone wanting to see it with another palette or how they saw it on their machine can download the PRG and have whatever palette and whatever pal emulation setting they want. To do it the other way round would require some kind of ini file or instructions on what to set the emulator to. It's also fine for people to upload images with PAL emulation when I don't think that looks quite right but then there's nothing I can do about it? can't reverse engineer the image. I'd just have to download the prg to see it how I wanted.... ohh :)




2010-07-19 22:36
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11088
"How could letting an artist upload an image with their own palette effect it?"

to be able to automatically process the images your converter *must* know either

a) the exact palette order (eg, 16 colors in original c64 palette order) or
b) the exact colors in the palette (eg, the pepto palette)

for any screenshot standard that makes sense, one of the two *must* be enforced, or you simply can not process those images automatically in any useful way.

and since a) is completely unrealistic in the context of a website like this (eg the palette order in a png/gif depends pretty much on the software/library that creates it) and would be super annoying for everyone involved in the process it can only be b)
2010-07-19 22:48
JCB
Account closed

Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 241
I can think of plenty of ways around that.

would you like me to write you some code that checks the palette against known ones? or you could borrow the Lemon code that does it? I could probably do you one that can pick the 16 colours out of any palette as long as they're not insanely wrong, I've got some quite advanced colour matching algorithms. Or failing all of that how about some code to allow someone to go manually pick the palette entry corresponding to the colour on screen.

How about a quick check using one of the above after upload and if no matching palette is found the upload is denied?

Any of that only has to be done once and alleviates all the problems but still allows for own settings.

Instead of enforcing things make it easy to conform. Suggest apps that won't dick with the palette order, supply palettes to people who have no clue, but generally in those cases it'll be people who are just uploaders not artists. Ste knows what he's doing for a start, he just sent me a new load of pics with the palette entries all correct.


All just suggestions not demands ;)

*Edit*
Besides all of that, the only images needing re-anything should be ones that need PAL emulation re-applied and from what I can make out anyone using that uses Pepto anyway.
2010-07-19 23:24
Frantic

Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1626
This must be the most sucky CSDb thread ever. UUUUUUuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhh.....

C S Db makes me wanna smoke crack.
Fall out the window and never come back.
2010-07-19 23:30
JCB
Account closed

Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 241
Quote: This must be the most sucky CSDb thread ever. UUUUUUuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhh.....

C S Db makes me wanna smoke crack.
Fall out the window and never come back.


Don't worry, you're not the only one ;) I'd much rather this thread stopped when it should have done after about 10 posts. Now I'm starting to recall why after registering years ago I didn't post again till last week.
2010-07-20 06:30
Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5007
I would make a gallery like this: rip all pictures into standardized binary formats like koala, then you display them as you want.

"That just sounds like a lack of respect for what the artist produced?"

Using your own picture setup on your TV is a disrespect towards filmmakers? Your own equalizer setup on music...?
2010-07-20 07:31
STE'86

Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 274
Jesus this is all very simple really.

a) Please don't use adulterated images (which it has been admitted several posts back was a misjusdgement on my part)

b) please don't try to impress upon me a display palette which i never created my work in. and let me display my work in the manner and spirit it WAS created in. and let ME be the judge of that being as how i actually did it 25 years ago and may indeed have some recollection of what it looked like.

thank you.

Steve
2010-07-20 08:05
TPM

Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 109
The image is just a preview.. if the palette just sucks, you have the possibility to update the preview image. I see numerous fucked up previews; i don't care.. the preview usually makes me curious to watch it on the real thing or emu with your preferred palette :)
2010-07-20 08:14
Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5007
Quote: Jesus this is all very simple really.

a) Please don't use adulterated images (which it has been admitted several posts back was a misjusdgement on my part)

b) please don't try to impress upon me a display palette which i never created my work in. and let me display my work in the manner and spirit it WAS created in. and let ME be the judge of that being as how i actually did it 25 years ago and may indeed have some recollection of what it looked like.

thank you.

Steve


b) A crystal clear display will never look like a blurry/noisy CRT carrying shitloads of artefacts. So please dont state it looks like as you saw it.
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