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Forums > C64 Composing > GoatTracker 2 Fork - interested?
2018-03-28 23:07
spider-j

Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 443
GoatTracker 2 Fork - interested?

I fiddled around with the GT2 sources lately - just for my personal interest. It's just visual stuff for "shits and giggles" ...
Currently I'm asking myself (or asking *you* here) if someone else may find this useful.
Checkout http://gt2fork.jansalleine.com/ and tell me what you think about it.
For now I just provided an experimental win32 download, but of course I will share the sources and do some more work on it if anyone bothers ;-)

When I mailed my zeroes to dots idea to Cadaver he said, he liked it, but feels GT development pretty much to be "finished". So I don't know if he'll work on GT anymore.

The current version runs - at least for me - on linux and windows - don't know anything about OSX or whatever this apple system is called yet :-)

Have fun!
spider.
2018-03-29 06:57
cadaver

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1153
If you wanted I could setup you with rights to push / administrate the sourceforge GT repo, so not necessarily need to fork. In that case I'd only have one wish that the original color scheme can be (optionally) restored :)
2018-03-29 07:00
TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2030
BLUE?
NO WAY!
I like my GT black and green!
:P

kidding aside, nice you wanna polish old GT2 a little

making color scheme selectable (as planned) is best idea as it might has a soothing effect on musicians who are at home at other trackers if they can switch colors and true GT people can stick to ori colors

something I always found strange is that it wsn't possible to copy&paste from/to to other programs, which would have been practical if you've already got the notes
2018-03-29 07:29
spider-j

Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 443
@cadaver: I'll maybe come back to that offer when / if I get over the "dirty hack" stage then ;-) And of course colorschemes should be at least be configurable before compiling - in the best case with just a config file for the executable.

@ryk: Not being able to use the system clipboard may also be a limitation of SDL 1 (?). I know SDL 2 has SDL_GetClipboardText, but as cadaver has written a really nice SDL 1 framework/engine (BME) I'll stick to that for now.
2018-03-29 08:33
Linus

Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 637
Interesting stuff! Cool.

Any plans for more "in-depth" improvements such as a detune per instrument setting e.g.? =)
2018-03-29 10:03
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11073
thumbs up for diving into this... i kinda gave up on seperating editor/player/packer at some point and came to the conclusion that rewriting it from scratch would atleast be not much less work than trying to hack into it what i want to do :)
2018-03-29 10:14
cadaver

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1153
The player is really horrible / unmaintainable with all the ifdefs for feature optimization, so very big thumbs up if you delve into it at all :) The embedded assembler from Exomizer with its slightly esoteric format is a further difficulty modifier.
2018-03-29 10:52
Thierry

Registered: Oct 2009
Posts: 47
Like it , try it today , looks good
2018-03-29 14:37
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 193
Nice, if a little "Borland"-like.

How about a CheeseCutter color scheme to confuse the composer? ^^
2018-03-29 15:06
Mr. SID

Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 419
I'd really like to listen to "Jesus & Tits" now, where can I find the tune? :)
2018-03-29 19:55
Xiny6581

Registered: Feb 2004
Posts: 71
Very nice that someone gives this the ol' goat an expander :P
I'd love to follow this and see where it turns!
2018-03-29 20:13
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
Can I already make a wishlist? xD
2018-03-29 20:28
Stinsen

Registered: Feb 2012
Posts: 71
This is a great initiative spider. As for my wish list it's rather short (but obviously huge in order of implementation effort), Ctrl-Z.
2018-03-30 06:30
spider-j

Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 443
Okay: first step is to make a clean (and complete) version with dots intead of zeroes & color scheme customization.

I also like comfort features as CTRL-Z. Don't know how much work this would be yet. So no promises. I personally would like a "Ninjatracker mode" - which doesn't allow input that would result in the tune not being able to be converted. So when I'm done with the display part I'll definately take a look at the editor code and see what I can do.

But I most likely won't touch the player code. When even Groepaz gave up on that this will be way beyond my abilities I guess.
2018-03-30 07:06
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 193
Quote: This is a great initiative spider. As for my wish list it's rather short (but obviously huge in order of implementation effort), Ctrl-Z.

Agree with this. When I made the one tune I've made in it so far, I was missing undo like crazy.
2018-03-30 11:36
cadaver

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1153
On modern machines you probably can quite easily afford to dump the entire song to a data structure for each undo step.
2018-11-30 19:56
booker
Account closed

Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 333
Hi All

Undo is a great feature for sure.

Changing resolution, fonts and color scheme would be also nice. Also SID register dump is cool (like Jeff did in his editors)

Anyone using GT with HardSid Uno (USB)? The follow play is very choppy. It's basically unusable.

Regards
b.
2018-11-30 20:29
4mat

Registered: May 2010
Posts: 63
Could we have a mono speaker mode when using the 2SID version? (stereo is panned hard left/right for each chip) It might already be in there but I never found a way to do it if so.
2018-12-01 11:37
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1288
Quoting 4mat
Could we have a mono speaker mode when using the 2SID version? (stereo is panned hard left/right for each chip) It might already be in there but I never found a way to do it if so.


Raf has already modded GT stereo for mono output but it was 2.70 build :)

GoatTracker Stereo V2.70 Double Mono [2sid]
2018-12-01 11:39
Linus

Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 637
Quote: On modern machines you probably can quite easily afford to dump the entire song to a data structure for each undo step.

Exactly what I am doing.
2018-12-01 15:52
TDM

Registered: Aug 2006
Posts: 10
Great initiative and I'm very glad to see this thread. I use Goat tracker daily since it has shown to be versatile and raster economic. I've tried a couple of other editors but for some reason I always get back to GT.

One thing struck me in most editors is that there are very coarse jumps between tempos, so even in Goat Tracker. A higher tempo granularity would open up a lot more possibilities. I have no idea if this is even doable within reasonable effort, but it would change the preconditions for creating music monumentally.

To give an example of what I mean: Today $03 is the fastest tempo and $6 is half the tempo of that. In an ideal situation $0C would be half the tempo of $03 and thus giving more tempo options.
2018-12-01 20:21
Linus

Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 637
Multispeed is your friend then ;)
2018-12-02 13:04
spider-j

Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 443
@TDM: Tempo is directly tied to the frames on C64. So 03 is 3 frames etc... So as Linus suggested, if you i.e. want to go "half a frame" you've got to choose 2X speed, meaning the routine is called twice per frame. Still tempo (if you think possible BPM) is limited on raster / frame based playroutines.
2018-12-03 10:32
Zirias

Registered: Jan 2014
Posts: 48
Quoting spider-j
@TDM: Tempo is directly tied to the frames on C64. So 03 is 3 frames etc...

That. And another option I use sometimes instead of going multi-speed is "funk tempo" or what it's called. Having the time of a pattern step alternate between e.g. 5 and 4 frames, you get an "effective tempo" of 4.5 (and just have the smallest-unit notes a little bit "too late", which often sounds quite nice).

BTT -- I prefer the original color scheme and about the dots: This is no doubt an improvement to the UI design, still I miss the original zeroes, just because -- you know, getting used to something is strong. But I think if GT UI would change this way, I would like it after a few days of using it :)
2018-12-05 13:04
TDM

Registered: Aug 2006
Posts: 10
Quote: Quoting spider-j
@TDM: Tempo is directly tied to the frames on C64. So 03 is 3 frames etc...

That. And another option I use sometimes instead of going multi-speed is "funk tempo" or what it's called. Having the time of a pattern step alternate between e.g. 5 and 4 frames, you get an "effective tempo" of 4.5 (and just have the smallest-unit notes a little bit "too late", which often sounds quite nice).

BTT -- I prefer the original color scheme and about the dots: This is no doubt an improvement to the UI design, still I miss the original zeroes, just because -- you know, getting used to something is strong. But I think if GT UI would change this way, I would like it after a few days of using it :)


Goat Tracker has funk tempo, us $E and point to speedtable. Agree about the color scheme, it's as bit hard to read.
2018-12-06 00:52
ws

Registered: Apr 2012
Posts: 218
I personally hand you a medal and a cigar if you manage to implement a graphical pattern sequence editor add on-screen controls to resize and change patterns as well as a more intuitive instrument library plus an arpeggio/filter section that is optically divided rather than being one big cluster of numbers. But hey... when did i last compose a SID with goattracker? 2017?
2018-12-07 16:20
Adam

Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 321
works nicely here. has anyone produced a version of goattracker for windows that supports MIDI keyboards? that would be wonderful :)
2020-07-15 21:25
spider-j

Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 443
On a request I did some new builds with black background. Did a little fixing and clean up.

Win32 releases here:
https://gt2fork.jansalleine.com/

Source code released publically on github:
https://github.com/jansalleine/gt2fork
2020-07-15 22:42
booker
Account closed

Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 333
Why not template the color scheme and let people set as they'd like? ;-)
2020-07-16 00:49
spider-j

Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 443
Quote: Why not template the color scheme and let people set as they'd like? ;-)

That sounds actually as if you copied it right from my todo list :-)
2020-07-16 09:29
booker
Account closed

Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 333
Quoting spider-j
That sounds actually as if you copied it right from my todo list :-)

how about linux version? :-D
2020-07-16 10:57
Adam

Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 321
MIDI keyboard/controller support? :)
2020-07-16 15:41
booker
Account closed

Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 333
selectable resid-fp / dag lem's resid?

for me dag lems sounds awfuly close to the real 8580 chip I have in Hard Sid, whereas the -fp filters are... not :)
2020-07-16 21:49
spider-j

Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 443
Quoting booker
how about linux version? :-D

Well, linux is the OS I'm using – works fine here :-)
I don't think it makes sense to release binaries for linux.
That's what the source is for.

Quoting booker
selectable resid-fp / dag lem's resid?

reSID interpolation switch:
0: reSID Fast Resample
1: reSID Resample (Interpolate in original GT2)
2: reSID-FP Interpolate
3: reSID-FP Interpolate Resample

I updated the reSID version in my fork to a more recent one. Didn't manage to update reSID-FP as well, as there were quite some API changes.

Quoting Adam
MIDI keyboard/controller support? :)

I must admit I don't know much about MIDI functionality in general. I've googled a bit for C/C++ libraries and there are some crossplattform ones. I'm unsure if I could pull this off...

I'm really "beginner" level at C/C++. Haven't coded anything but some really basic cli tools from scratch.
2020-07-17 01:29
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11073
MIDI needs arch dependend code, so whatever you do that works on linux will not be of much use for adam =P
2020-07-17 10:16
booker
Account closed

Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 333
@spider-j, thanks, sir. Apparently I was reading too fast and missed Linux bit!
2020-07-17 12:54
tlr

Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1698
Really nice change to get rid of all the 00 everywhere.

It would be good if you could be rebased it on the latest svn version though. I miss the double size option.
2020-07-20 20:28
spider-j

Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 443
Quoting tlr
It would be good if you could be rebased it on the latest svn version though. I miss the double size option.

Done.

But be aware that the displaymodes introduced in 2.75 take another approach than my way and therefore this won't work like in upstream. There is still only decimal and hexadecimal view and no other "dotstyle" than mine ...

Doublesize and all the other new features *should* work though [ fingers crossed ;-) ].
2020-07-20 20:54
tlr

Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1698
Quote: Quoting tlr
It would be good if you could be rebased it on the latest svn version though. I miss the double size option.

Done.

But be aware that the displaymodes introduced in 2.75 take another approach than my way and therefore this won't work like in upstream. There is still only decimal and hexadecimal view and no other "dotstyle" than mine ...

Doublesize and all the other new features *should* work though [ fingers crossed ;-) ].


Seems to be working, thanks!
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