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Forums > C64 Composing > DeepSID
2018-05-12 17:49
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
DeepSID

I have made my own online SID player. It uses Jürgen Wothke's WebSid emulator and can also play digi tunes. You can browse all of HVSC #68 with it.

Check out my blog post for more information:
http://chordian.net/2018/05/12/deepsid/

Direct link:
http://deepsid.chordian.net/
2018-05-12 17:57
Mr Ammo

Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 117
Nice and great work!!
https://deepsid.chordian.net/ doesn't seem to show any hvsc files and the emulation software does strange things to Linus' 64 Forever tune. Other than that, great software and this is just a first release! ;)
2018-05-12 18:07
Shine

Registered: Jul 2012
Posts: 227
Fast test and all works fine so far! Thank you JCH!!! :D
2018-05-12 18:11
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
Yeah, the emulator is probably not perfect, but Wothke is still developing it so maybe it will improve over time.

HTTPS is not used by my web site yet. (Maybe I really should make the change, though.)
2018-05-12 18:28
Fred

Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 184
Cool and well done!

Btw you mention on your blog that the WebSid emulator from Wothke is based on ReSID but this is not true. The emulation is based on Tiny SID (TinySID 0.97) and improved and extended by Wothke to support RSID tunes. The "combined waveform", "waveform anti-aliasing" and "filter" implementation is based on the SID emulation from Hermit (cSID).

Info: http://www.wothke.ch/tinyrsid/index.php
2018-05-12 18:31
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
Right, thanks for clearing that up (edited the blog post). It was all the "ReSID" mentioning in the source code that threw me off.
2018-05-12 22:10
Mr. Mouse

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 205
I love this GUI you built! Now we only need a better emulator though.
2018-05-12 22:36
Groepaz

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 8677
someone already compiled VICE into js using emscripten - so it should be doable with reSID too :)
2018-05-13 20:15
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
Specific folder and file playsausage is here.

http://deepsid.chordian.net?file=/MUSICIANS/J/Jammer

http://deepsid.chordian.net?file=/MUSICIANS/J/JCH/Michelle.sid
2018-05-13 20:38
Mibri

Registered: Feb 2018
Posts: 5
Thanks for this! Digi sounds coming through very nicely.
2018-05-14 05:39
Grue

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 93
Nice and clean interface, too bad you cannot manually choose emulation 6581/8580. Also pal/ntsc should be possible to choose manually so we can hear Skate or Die! like it should ;)

Also filter emulation is currently quite bad, it doesn't sound like sid at all :)

Anyway, good work and lets hope it will get better over time :)
2018-05-14 05:59
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
Interesting that a PAL/NTSC toggle is a thing. You're the second person to ask about it.

I'll add that and the SID chip toggle to the ToDo. It will probably require changes to Wothke's code, but I've already gone down that road before.
2018-05-14 07:45
Mr. SID

Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 350
Using a button with ".." as a metaphor for navigating to the parent folder is surely hard to understand for people younger than us... :)
2018-05-14 08:20
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
I was thinking, modern software still use the floppy disk as a save indicator so I can use the ".." dots too. ;)

But true, maybe I should replace it with a back arrow instead.
2018-05-14 12:55
Groepaz

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 8677
Quote:
Also filter emulation is currently quite bad, it doesn't sound like sid at all :)

try some tune that uses oscillator-restart digis =)
2018-05-14 15:37
LKP

Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 6
I have tried it a koppel of days before , and it worked on my ipad. Bud now I hear nothing.. Has it changed (deepsid.chordian.net)?
2018-05-14 17:32
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
iPhone/iPad never really worked. Apple is doing their best to prevent auto-playing and have "hacked" their own Safari to get it their way. I had used a counter-hack to circumvent the tapping requirement, but then sound only played for 4-5 seconds before cutting off (maybe with a hanging tone).

But since update 11.3 there has been an outcry from users that say they have similar sound cutting experiences in various apps, so I have decided to wait and see what update 11.4 brings. Until then I removed the hack, which is why it is now silent.

It annoys me too as my mobile devices of choice are iPhone and iPad. ><
2018-05-14 18:21
Mr Ammo

Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 117
I wouldn't worry too much about mobile. So long as it works on desktop everything is fine for me ;-)
2018-05-14 19:55
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
The PAL/NTSC and 6581/8580 flag boxes can now toggle, but maybe Wothke needs to tweak their code a bit. Sometimes switching to PAL plays faster than NTSC!? That doesn't feel quite right.

Also, the SID model switcher is very brutal. It resets a lot of things and older tunes (mainly in DEMOS and GAMES) get so upset about it that they refuse to play any longer. More modern tunes fare better, but you have to wait for new notes to trigger.
2018-05-14 20:00
DKT

Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 51
This is really great! Friendly and informative GUI. Works fine on my mobile (Android), too. Thanks JCH!
2018-05-15 18:38
ccr

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 16
Heh, I see you're using my SIDInfo utility .. the latest version is 0.7.3 nowadays tho. I just don't bother making release entries here on CSDb, because of reasons. But if interested, the latest code is in the Mercurial repo https://tnsp.org/hg/sidinfo/ and packages are available at https://tnsp.org/files/sidinfo-0.7.3.tar.gz and https://tnsp.org/files/sidinfo-0.7.3.zip
2018-05-15 19:14
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
Thanks. What's new since 0.6.0?
2018-05-15 20:40
Lynn

Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 645
Just tested it out with L/Linus/Rathouse_Blues.sid... doesn't sound great. Filters sound off and there's clicks in the audio. Guess the emulation still needs a lot of work.
2018-05-15 21:07
Scarzix

Registered: Aug 2010
Posts: 138
Lovely idea, the emulation isnt 100% perfect yet, thats clear. My first SID after 23 years, "Back 2 Basic" sounds a bit empty on the tom tom drums... amongst other differences, but overall... this looks and sounds promising.

And its totally cool to have the HVSC in there by default. Lovely.

Good job JCH
2018-05-15 21:11
Scarzix

Registered: Aug 2010
Posts: 138
Note: if you play a tune and browse the folders and go back to the folder of the tune, it does currently NOT highlight the currently playing tune.

Secondly, a feature of being able to make a "sharable" link directly to the tune would also be handy... "share my tune".. kinda functionality.
2018-05-15 21:23
ccr

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 16
Quoting JCH
Thanks. What's new since 0.6.0?

Hmm .. there's HVSC songlengths database support, improved "printf"-style output formatting features, PSID/RSIDv4 format support and ability to convert the SID data fields from the Latin1/ISO-8859-1 character encoding used in PSID files to UTF-8 or whatever locale/encoding one's system uses (this only on *NIX, the Windows-port can't do it due to lack of iconv.)

And possibly things I forget now.
2018-05-16 04:42
Snabel

Registered: Aug 2015
Posts: 17
Quote: Note: if you play a tune and browse the folders and go back to the folder of the tune, it does currently NOT highlight the currently playing tune.

Secondly, a feature of being able to make a "sharable" link directly to the tune would also be handy... "share my tune".. kinda functionality.


I opted for the "Copy link to clipboard" feature also :D Would be so handy for quickly sending a link to buddies. Typing out the link by hand is a bit tedious since links are case sensitive, and possibly contains underscores and what not.
2018-05-16 07:04
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
Quote: Note: if you play a tune and browse the folders and go back to the folder of the tune, it does currently NOT highlight the currently playing tune.

Secondly, a feature of being able to make a "sharable" link directly to the tune would also be handy... "share my tune".. kinda functionality.


Yes, yes, yes, the share link is on my ToDo. =)

True that about the folders. The way I handled those was to regard each folder of SID files as a temporary playlist. You can see that behavior by clicking a SID tune and then try to browse back. The PREV/NEXT buttons are then disabled and if the music times out, it no longer tries to go to the next tune. It was the simplest way to solve the problem at the time, otherwise I would have had to juggle multiple folder arrays and/or pointers. I decided it was not worth the trouble and I also wanted to get on with it.
2018-05-16 08:22
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
I have now added Hermit's jsSID emulator as a second option.

To enable, just click the "Hermit" link in the credits box as the page appears.

Or you can just bookmark/click this:
http://deepsid.chordian.net?emulator=jssid

Btw, this 6-voice SID is pure awesomeness:
http://deepsid.chordian.net?file=/MUSICIANS/H/Hermit/E_G_Blues_..
2018-05-17 04:21
Grue

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 93
This jssid is much more like it, but still not quite like the real sid...

Anyway its good enough now that it is usable :)
2018-05-19 11:13
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
Search has been added, and a new SID emulator toggle button makes it easy to compare them on the spot.
2018-05-19 18:50
Digger

Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 281
@JCH: Doesn't seem to work on Chrome on Mac, why? I remember jsSID was working fine...
2018-05-19 23:30
Mr Ammo

Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 117
Digger: make sure your google chrome is not waiting for you to finish the upgrade of the browser. Go to help/about google chrome and run the update (if there's an update to be installed). This solved it for me.
2018-05-21 08:04
Golara

Registered: Jan 2018
Posts: 70
I really like this website, it's super cool that the next track plays automatically, I just hate this emulator that is being used here. Sounds really bad to me. I've listened to these tunes :

http://deepsid.chordian.net/?file=/MUSICIANS/D/Daf/Opium_tune_1..
http://deepsid.chordian.net/?file=/MUSICIANS/D/Daf/Opium_tune_2..
http://deepsid.chordian.net/?file=/MUSICIANS/D/Daf/Opium_tune_3..

If you ever change the emulation to something better it would be killer ;)

EDIT: I didn't notice the toggle switch at the bottom. jsSID sounds much better :D
2018-06-03 16:52
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
All right, you emulator naysayers, I've now added support for SOASC (i.e. real C64 recordings). You can also click the time bar in SOASC mode to seek the position.

SOASC R2 = a 6581 with carebear filter
SOASC R4 = a 6581 held down moaning in the mud
SOASC R5 = a 8580 in all its awesomeness

If a file can't be found on SOASC, the row turns red and skips ahead.
2018-06-03 16:59
Mr Ammo

Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 117
Great addition!!

Will you consider adding some auto-select-correct-sid-model-recording based on the SID model specified in the sidinfo in a future version of deepsid?
2018-06-03 17:47
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
Quote: Great addition!!

Will you consider adding some auto-select-correct-sid-model-recording based on the SID model specified in the sidinfo in a future version of deepsid?


Thought about it a few times. I also thought about changing to Hermit's jsSID when a 2SID/3SID tune is clicked, since his emulator is the only SID handler that can play those.

But it's a bit nasty as that would change the SID handler for then on. To some, it would be like an old PC DOS game that suddenly auto-changes from EGA to VGA because it detects that the game needs more colors for one scene than EGA can handle. ;)

At least it's super easy to change the SID handler on the spot. I even made sure it retains the sub tune it's on when doing that.

I'll note it down anyway.
2018-06-03 22:22
JackAsser

Registered: Jun 2002
Posts:
Quote: Thought about it a few times. I also thought about changing to Hermit's jsSID when a 2SID/3SID tune is clicked, since his emulator is the only SID handler that can play those.

But it's a bit nasty as that would change the SID handler for then on. To some, it would be like an old PC DOS game that suddenly auto-changes from EGA to VGA because it detects that the game needs more colors for one scene than EGA can handle. ;)

At least it's super easy to change the SID handler on the spot. I even made sure it retains the sub tune it's on when doing that.

I'll note it down anyway.


Just have one preferred (ui selectable) and one active (automatically selected when preferred can’t handle the tune)
2018-06-04 06:12
Grue

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 93
Too bad soasc seems to have broken 8580r5, it snaps alot with linuses Cauldron 2 remix :(

ntsc/pal clock problem? recording level?

Anyway, great addition!
2018-06-04 08:33
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
Quote: Too bad soasc seems to have broken 8580r5, it snaps alot with linuses Cauldron 2 remix :(

ntsc/pal clock problem? recording level?

Anyway, great addition!


Thanks. For now, I just stream the files from the mirror site directly. MP3 for HVSC #49 and FLAC for #50 and up. R2 and R5 sounds great to me for all the tunes I've tried.

If anything, there are a rare inconsistencies regarding song lengths. Sometimes SOASC thinks a tune is much shorter than HVSC believes, which is really confusing when trying to seek click a tune past the length of the SOASC file (it then just skips to the next tune).

But I have also seen one other situation where SOASC correctly believed the song was much longer. The length in HVSC cut off way before the song was actually finished. Stupid me didn't note it down at the time. I'll see if I can stumble over it again later.

Waxhead from SOASC wants me to use their dl.php script, but I'm not sure I can make it work with Howler. I have to fiddle some more with it and see what I come up with.
2018-06-04 12:33
Fred

Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 184
If you stream MP3 files from HVSC #49 then use the Songlengths.txt from HVSC #49 where the SOASC project got the info from. Otherwise you will get differences since the song lengths may be corrected for an HVSC update and also tunes get fixed which may result in a different song length as well.

If you find incorrect song lengths, please inform the HVSC team so we can update it for the next release.
2018-06-04 13:09
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
Quote: If you stream MP3 files from HVSC #49 then use the Songlengths.txt from HVSC #49 where the SOASC project got the info from. Otherwise you will get differences since the song lengths may be corrected for an HVSC update and also tunes get fixed which may result in a different song length as well.

If you find incorrect song lengths, please inform the HVSC team so we can update it for the next release.


That's a good point. Didn't think of it that way.

Either way, I have this idea that I might just use the .duration method in Howler for SOASC files. Then the time bar duration will just be whatever length the MP3/FLAC file has, regardless of what the database song lengths are actually set to.
2018-06-04 15:07
Groepaz

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 8677
Quote:
Too bad soasc seems to have broken 8580r5, it snaps alot with linuses Cauldron 2 remix :(

ntsc/pal clock problem? recording level?


or perhaps even 8580 have more variation than some people think? :)
2018-06-04 18:37
Grue

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 93
Atleast common digifix resistor fucks up 8580 on modern tunes :)
2018-06-04 18:58
Groepaz

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 8677
of course it does... this "digifix" is a stupid idea in the first place =P
2018-06-24 08:56
Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 4274
superb work on this one, really love using it, except...

list of found files window is very small, only 4 entries visible at once. could it be on the right side using up all vertical space ?

also when I click between the slider and the arrows to skip a whole page the gui scrolls awkwardly slowly, "nicely" accelerating and deccelerating. could that be turned off? and for all gui elements, all seem to do this which makes all response time very slow.

also higher contrasts between white spaces and the very light grey background would be welcome, and higher contrast overall (or is it just me getting blind..)
2018-06-24 11:19
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
Quote: superb work on this one, really love using it, except...

list of found files window is very small, only 4 entries visible at once. could it be on the right side using up all vertical space ?

also when I click between the slider and the arrows to skip a whole page the gui scrolls awkwardly slowly, "nicely" accelerating and deccelerating. could that be turned off? and for all gui elements, all seem to do this which makes all response time very slow.

also higher contrasts between white spaces and the very light grey background would be welcome, and higher contrast overall (or is it just me getting blind..)


Thanks for the input.

Regarding the list of files, it flexes and adapts to the height of the browser window. A taller window, a taller list. =)

The right side space is reserved for e.g. a visualizer and maybe some other stuff I have planned some day.

So, you can see the right side space but only have four entries in the list? What kind of device do you use? Only on a smartphone is it limited to four entries, but then there should be no right space. Both on my iPhone and on my iPad, scrolling is fast both swiping or holding down the arrows.

Btw, if you're on desktop, hit F9 to open the player in a small pop-up window.
2018-06-24 12:42
Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 4274


well this is what I get at 1388x768 win10+latestFF, the pop up window is also shown, the whole gui would fit the screen 3 times horizontally, so why not use that space for the list ?

tried now dragging the list, I get as much as >1 second delay while the scrolling accelerates and deccelerates slowly, to reach to the point where I have dragged the slider.

I can make a video of it :)
2018-06-24 13:53
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
I see your problem with that resolution.

Try this: Show DeepSID then hit Ctrl+KeyPadMinus a few times. =)
2018-06-24 16:10
Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 4274
yeah its called ctrl+mouse scroll wheel in my book, that helps indeed :)
2018-06-24 16:13
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
But yeah, it could be improved a lot of smaller screens. It's something I have to look into later.
2018-07-01 18:06
Joe/Modern Arts

Registered: Jan 2013
Posts: 9
Those that complained about the emulation quality of WebSid might have another look.. (I did some fixes which hopefully improved things..)
2018-07-11 14:49
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
Quote: superb work on this one, really love using it, except...

list of found files window is very small, only 4 entries visible at once. could it be on the right side using up all vertical space ?

also when I click between the slider and the arrows to skip a whole page the gui scrolls awkwardly slowly, "nicely" accelerating and deccelerating. could that be turned off? and for all gui elements, all seem to do this which makes all response time very slow.

also higher contrasts between white spaces and the very light grey background would be welcome, and higher contrast overall (or is it just me getting blind..)


I've now updated DeepSID so it automatically hides the STIL box if the display is tiny.

Also, you can toggle the STIL box at any time with the 's' hotkey.
2018-07-27 08:00
Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 4274
most awesome tool to listen to sids.


btw anyone thought of non sequential emulation? jumping in at the middle of the song? with some pre stored history of cpu ? or atleast rewind using this ? :)
2018-07-27 09:17
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
At least with the SOASC handlers you can click to seek anywhere on the time bar since they're just MP3/FLAC files.
2018-07-27 09:21
iAN CooG

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1997
Quote: most awesome tool to listen to sids.


btw anyone thought of non sequential emulation? jumping in at the middle of the song? with some pre stored history of cpu ? or atleast rewind using this ? :)


ACID64 does it, by speeding up emulation in silent mode to the point you jump to.
2018-07-27 09:25
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
I had thought of doing the same thing, but I fear the JS emulators are not fast enough.
2018-08-08 11:36
Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 4274
it would be nice if there would be direct links to the tunes playing, including player type or soasc, so link could be sent and deepsid would play the tune if link used. and / or download link to the soasc files.
2018-08-08 11:39
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
Quote: it would be nice if there would be direct links to the tunes playing, including player type or soasc, so link could be sent and deepsid would play the tune if link used. and / or download link to the soasc files.

Actually, there is. Every time you click a SID row, the "permalink" in the top box is updated.

Just right-click it and copy the link.
2018-08-08 13:27
Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 4274
ah, nicely hidden. :P why not in the main url box ?
2018-08-08 13:38
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
By URL box, you mean the browser with folders and files? I'm a little wary about adding multiple clicks to SID rows. I like to keep clicking a row to opening a folder or playing a tune, and then only clicking stars apart from that. Remember, this also has to work on a mobile device.

Also, I think the "permalink" sits nicely in the top info box. It's where the title and author of the tune is displayed so it makes sense to have it there.
2018-08-08 16:14
Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 4274
no, I mean the web browser's box where you type in the url you want to go to. one copyes urls usually from there and not from within the web page.
2018-08-08 19:37
Digger

Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 281
Like Oswald said, updating browser's address bar (window.location.href) with a deeplink without reloading the page would be superb! You can do it with history.pushState() AFAIR
2018-08-08 21:24
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
Yes, I know how it's done. I'll add it to my ToDo.
2018-08-11 16:27
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
The address line is now dynamically updated.
2018-08-11 16:32
Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 4274
hurray, thank you :)
2018-08-16 19:30
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
DeepSID now uses the CSDb web service for a new CSDb tab.
2018-08-16 19:42
Compyx

Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 358
What is that supposed to do? When I play Chordian I get "QCF Music Ripp 24", while I'm pretty sure Chordian is older and most likely first used in a Bones demo or so.
2018-08-16 19:47
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
It shows a list of releases (using the "sid" type) or a page (using the "release" type).

While gathering ID numbers for the database, I had this idea that I would store the "sid" type and ID unless there's a dedicated "C64 Music" page, in which case I would store that instead. Showing music pages works well for newer releases where the composer himself made the entry, added a nice screenshot, there's a lot of user comments and maybe even achievements.

What I didn't quite count on was that older tunes would get links to "C64 Music" pages that are often just odd rips. ><

I'll see if I can do something about that later.
2018-08-16 19:53
Compyx

Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 358
Sorry about that, I just tested with "Old_Level_2.sid" by Link and that does indeed produce "The Larch III", the first demo I heard that song in.
So I misunderstood the CSDb web service.

Out of curiosity, which demo first used "Chordian", if any. I love that song :)
2018-08-16 20:02
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
I didn't make it specifically for any demo, as far as I remember. I just made it and brought it along for a demo party. I believe Link was one of the first guys to hear it there.
2018-08-16 20:19
Compyx

Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 358
Ah. So typical demo scene stuff then.
2018-08-17 23:40
Carrion

Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 202
I hope it’s right thread
Jens
Thank you so much of doing this player. I can be on vacation with fanily and still listen to HVSC on my phone while enjoing the beach and sun.
This is what I call perfect C64 vacatons. Regards

Ps.
I even listened go Chordian as a kind of tribute to your great achievements. I like Hawaii the best though ;)
2018-08-18 08:30
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 68
Thanks. It's been fun making it.
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