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vV
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 6 |
Using multi-density routines to split one or two sid voices into more....
I have been tinkering with this thought for quite a decade now and then and i have been out of this so very long.
I know you can build fantastic sid instruments with multiple density routines, but what if we use this technique to divide wave generation accross splitted tracks?
Some instruments like leads and massive bass designs do not lend themselves for this kind of technique, but you could frankly cram one percussion and one arpeggio track into one sid voice this way, leaving you one other dedicated voice for something else.
I'm sure it sounds shit if you start with double density interrupts, but when raising to four or more, the audio artifacts resulting from it might not be or be less noticable, or create their own unique distinctive audio signature that it is enjoyable...
I roughly checked different sid editors that are emulation based and see what techniques and features they contain, but i could not find an editor with any remote description of such idea....
Is there a sid-player that actually supplies such technique and if not, who would be the person motivated to tinker with the actually attempt to test this out? |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1627 |
I am not familiar with the term "multiple density", so just to clarify: What you are asking about is to switch quickly back and forth between different instruments on one and the same sid oscillator?
If so, I think Alih did something like that. ...or was it Aleksi Eeben? |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
ADSR is too inflexible it can be only done with instruments that are only either on or off. |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1627 |
Yep. ADSR makes it tricky.
In a way I think this is something that people have done for a long time, such as making sounds which are a bit like hybrids between bassdrum+bass or snare+bass to be used to put drums+bass on the same channel. So in those cases the "drum" and the "bass" would be trigged at the same time, and thus they would use the same ADSR. |
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 321 |
Quoting vVmultiple density routines
Quote:double density interrupts
eh? |
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Claus_2015
Registered: Oct 2012
Posts: 53 |
Not sure if I get the idea right, but toggling quickly between really different sounds will always sound like shit. For slower switching speed you will get an arpeggio sound, while towards higher switching speed you will probably get strange robotic noises with the switching frequency. |
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vV
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 6 |
Quote: ADSR is too inflexible it can be only done with instruments that are only either on or off.
Yes, i suspected sort of, else i would have expected someone would have coded a HiRes sid composing editor. |
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vV
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 6 |
Quote: Quoting vVmultiple density routines
Quote:double density interrupts
eh?
Double density, but triple and quadripple density were also applied, hence "multiple density" interrupts. |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 443 |
If I get the idea right this idea can easily be "simulated" with a standard 2x playroutine. Just take two 1x instruments with the same ADSR, double all values and then mix them together only one value from each. You will end up with what Claus said: one new instrument and not a mix of two.
Mixing percussion and drums with other instruments is already done by just placing them "up-front" or if you wanna get fancy you can even place them in between long slow arpeggios if you properly sync your wave table to the song speed. You can even not touch wavetables at all and make any instrument at some places a percussion-like instrument by quickly switching filters for a couple of frames. The list goes on ...
All of that is already done by almost every SID musician in the 21st century ;-) |
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vV
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 6 |
Quote: If I get the idea right this idea can easily be "simulated" with a standard 2x playroutine. Just take two 1x instruments with the same ADSR, double all values and then mix them together only one value from each. You will end up with what Claus said: one new instrument and not a mix of two.
Mixing percussion and drums with other instruments is already done by just placing them "up-front" or if you wanna get fancy you can even place them in between long slow arpeggios if you properly sync your wave table to the song speed. You can even not touch wavetables at all and make any instrument at some places a percussion-like instrument by quickly switching filters for a couple of frames. The list goes on ...
All of that is already done by almost every SID musician in the 21st century ;-)
No not standard 2x, if you have to divide your ADSR processing, you need at least 4x as you have to process each stage value in one interrupt with the other stages zeroed...
2x will for sure sound like shit.
I have done my fair mixing of percussion with bass waves or arpeggios, but if creating combined instruments is what it takes, then any current editor shall suffice, even with just 1x interrupt. With more, you can just whip up more fancy combinations. |
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Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 422 |
The often used bassdr+bass is tricking the ear, but changing waveform rapidly on one voice will not mix anything. The selected waveform is just replaced with another. If the oscillator is reset, then the piece is from the beginning, if not, then the piece is from whatever the phase of the osc happens to be in.
There will be the carrier frequency present in some form or another, if x==50 hz, then 4x will mean 200hz update rate. 16x is 1600hz etc. This sets the carrier sound frequency, and also limits the frequency accuracy of notes which one can play.
The ADSR can be controlled at will, but one must keep the ADSR at A or R, rising or falling. Controlling the A or R rate continuously allows ADSR to be manipulated to any level, but max useful update rate is about 600hz.(12x)
Also, eventually the memory will be a problem. High update rates mean large wavetables etc.
I think 48x updated tunes have been made.
I wonder if anyone has played with waveform 0 in multispeed wavetables. |
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