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Forums > C64 Composing > Goattracker sound woes
2012-08-07 08:48
iLKke

Registered: May 2012
Posts: 28
Goattracker sound woes

Hey guys.

Every time I make a tune in Goattracker when I export it as .sid and play it, it sounds vastly different.

I've been bothering a couple of friends with it but nobody could help me out, so here I am.

I made a little example to illustrate the problem. This particular sng is supposed to be played at x2.

Here is an example what I hear in GT and then in sidplay2

Here is the goattracker2.71 song file

And here is my config:
Quote:
;------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------
;GT2 config file. Rows starting with ; are comments. Hexadecimal parameters are
;to be preceded with $ and decimal parameters with nothing.
;------------------------------------------------------------------------------

;reSID buffer length (in milliseconds)
100
;reSID mixing rate (in Hz)
44100
;Hardsid device number (0 = off)
0
;reSID model (0 = 6581, 1 = 8580)
1
;Timing mode (0 = PAL, 1 = NTSC)
0
;Packer/relocator fileformat (0 = SID, 1 = PRG, 2 = BIN)
0
;Packer/relocator player address
$1000
;Packer/relocator zeropage baseaddress
$fc
;Packer/relocator player type (0 = standard ... 3 = minimal)
0
;Key entry mode (0 = Protracker, 1 = DMC)
0
;Pattern highlight step size
4
;Speed multiplier (0 = 25Hz, 1 = 1X, 2 = 2X etc.)
2
;Use CatWeasel SID (0 = off, 1 = on)
0
;Hardrestart ADSR parameter
$ff00
;reSID interpolation (0 = off, 1 = on, 2 = distortion, 3 = distortion & on)
3
;Hexadecimal pattern display (0 = off, 1 = on)
0
;SID baseaddress
$d400
;Finevibrato mode (0 = off, 1 = on)
1
;Pulseskipping (0 = off, 1 = on)
1
;Realtime effect skipping (0 = off, 1 = on)
1
;Random reSID write delay in cycles (0 = off)
0
;Custom SID clock cycles per second (0 = use PAL/NTSC default)
0
;HardSID interactive mode buffer size (in milliseconds, 0 = maximum/no flush)
20
;HardSID playback mode buffer size (in milliseconds, 0 = maximum/no flush)
400
;reSID-fp distortion rate
0.500000
;reSID-fp distortion point
3300000.000000
;reSID-fp distortion CF threshold
0.000100
;reSID-fp type 3 base resistance
1147036.500000
;reSID-fp type 3 base offset
274228800.000000
;reSID-fp type 3 base steepness
1.006663
;reSID-fp type 3 minimum FET resistance
16125.155273
;reSID-fp type 4 k
5.500000
;reSID-fp type 4 b
20.000000
;reSID-fp voice nonlinearity
0.961316
;Window type (0 = window, 1 = fullscreen)
0
;Base pitch of A-4 in Hz (0 = use default frequencytable)
0.000000

I've been trying with different buffer and resid settings, but to no avail.

Since all the players (including Vice) seem to sound alike, I assume I'm doing something wrong with Goattracker. Still waiting for my 1541u so can't test on real hardware sadly.

Halp pls!

i
 
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2018-09-10 16:28
Groepaz

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 8715
Quote:
Believe it or not, I actually miss having a real C64C (for 8580) to test SID stuff on.

whats there not to believe? YOU _need_ a real C64 too! :)
2018-09-10 16:47
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 83
If a SIDBlaster can do the job, I can settle with that. It takes a genuine SID chip and is probably much easier to feed.
2018-09-10 16:54
Groepaz

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 8715
those things are really super overrated. for anything that aims proper emulation anyways. sidblaster in particular does not provide cycle exact timing (or ANY sort of timing for that matter) so really only very simple things will work as expected. (all external SID things have this problem, except catweasel mk4 and hardsid-usb - which have their own set of problems)
2018-09-10 16:57
JCH

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 83
Fair enough. I'll try getting one anyway, it sounds neat. =)
2018-09-10 22:32
TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 520
JCH(!) hasn't got a real C64 anymore?

Unbelievable /o\ someone must help

if it's just lack of a board with 8580, there are Stereo hardware solutions that can handle also 8580 on old board layouts (normally equipped with 6580 such as ASSYs 250407 or 425), iirc even easier than vice versa (finding the 12V for old 6581 on 250469 once gave me a good pain in the ass)
2018-09-11 13:09
Stone

Registered: Oct 2006
Posts: 127
Quoting Groepaz
sidblaster in particular does not provide cycle exact timing (or ANY sort of timing for that matter) so really only very simple things will work as expected.
This is not entirely true. The hardsid api supports register write scheduling by a caller-supplied target 6510 cpu cycle count. However, the write buffering is not implemented in the device firmware, but rather in the driver program. This leads to wildly different results from machine to machine depending on the latency in the USB interface, for instance on my laptop samples play quite well, while on my workstation they sound like s**t.
2018-09-11 16:08
Groepaz

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 8715
"This is not entirely true.<followed by by its true>"
and there is no PAL clock on the device either as far as i can see
2018-09-11 16:29
Stone

Registered: Oct 2006
Posts: 127
Quoting Groepaz
"This is not entirely true.<followed by by its true>"
and there is no PAL clock on the device either as far as i can see
You're looking at the SIDBlaster purely as a hardware thing. For the user it is also a matter of software. Cycle exact timing is approximated in the driver and in many cases it works pretty well. Something like the exSID would obivously be better since it has cycle excact timing built in, but I don't think this has hardsid.dll compatibility yet.
2018-09-11 17:05
Groepaz

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 8715
what are you trying to say? all i am saying is that it doesnt provide correct timing. and no other device currently on the market does, afaik.

and yes, unless it does provide 100% accuracy, in all situations, those devices are a complete waste of time and precious SIDs - and chances are emulation will do a better job.
2018-09-11 17:40
Stone

Registered: Oct 2006
Posts: 127
I am trying to say that for many users, the timing approximation is good enough.

Whether or not it is a waste of time, is a matter of opinion and you are certainly entitled to yours.
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