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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2062 |
What's an import?
As one of your favourite mods Count Zero keeps cracking his head about the CSDb crack sub category "Import", let's help him, so he finally can focus on more productive issues.
Here's some rotten forum freds frome around a decade ago on how it emerged:
- Adding the cracker group to import/trainer version (Rough raising the question how to distinguish group-b-introlinked cracks originally made by group-a from group-a's release)
- Suggestion: New release type "C64 Import" (bepp calling for a new release type)
- PAL to PAL imports (Didi's view, especially doubting Imports without Video Standard fixes make sense)
So do we need the "Import" flag at all?
Should we limit it to the days when BBSes and snailmail were the only way of getting cracks across borders and oceans?
Is a crack made in one Western German city intro-linked in another Western German city an import?
Do we need another category/flag ("Lame Intro Linked Version without any advantages over original crack") instead?
Do more categories/flags really make things clearer or rather create more confusion?
Now go, fight. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11108 |
*poopcorn* |
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Higgie
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 113 |
IMHO imports are lame if they are just based on modem-trading or mail-trading (without any fixes applied). Imagine every swapper would have put his intro infront of every release that he sent to his contacts. Oh dear! To me imports are much closer to a recrack than a proper release. As with many things some people regard as an achievement, when it comes to imports most times there is close to no talent involved or required. ... just my 2 cents of a rant ;)
@TheRyk: I vote for "Lame Intro Linked Version without any advantages over original crack" :) |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
Quote: IMHO imports are lame if they are just based on modem-trading or mail-trading (without any fixes applied). Imagine every swapper would have put his intro infront of every release that he sent to his contacts. Oh dear! To me imports are much closer to a recrack than a proper release. As with many things some people regard as an achievement, when it comes to imports most times there is close to no talent involved or required. ... just my 2 cents of a rant ;)
@TheRyk: I vote for "Lame Intro Linked Version without any advantages over original crack" :)
There is not any reason for morally judge releases in the database. People can vote. An import is an import, lame or not, just like a demo or gfx. |
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Higgie
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 113 |
Quote: There is not any reason for morally judge releases in the database. People can vote. An import is an import, lame or not, just like a demo or gfx.
@hedning: I didn't want to judge morally. ;) ... It's just my opinion on imports (could be based on my moral standards, though) or so called "importers".
Ryk asked "What is an import?". In many cases it's taking credit for something without nearly any effort put into it.
People/Sceners at CSDB rightfully make fun of others using converters and then claiming credit for graphics etc. ... getting a release from a foreign country by calling a bbs, smashing an intro infront of it and calling it an import is of the same spirit.
btw: many tags or attributes in CSDB imply a kind of moral standpoint. Why are unauthorized rebuilt groups labeled [fake rebuild]? (I know it's another topic!) These groups were not always "fake" but "unauthorized". |
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Six
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 287 |
My vote would be to add a new release type, and make sure it's plumbed through the system with groups being able to be "Importing Group" and a scener being able to have the role of "Importer". This would more accurately reflect history - at least in the US, there were no shortage of groups who only imported, didn't crack anything themselves. There were even groups that "imported" from the wider NTSC world to isolated areas.
I was never particularly impressed with it, generally it involved downloading something and slapping an intro on it with a tool - NSR even did this for a while just to make a point of how little effort it took - but it is part of the old scene. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
An import can be everything from a release "imported" from Hamburg to Berlin and then to Copenhagen, and then to Norway with four intros, to a ntsc-fixed US import with added trainers etc, as long there is no attempt to hide the original release; then it's a recrack. |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1821 |
Imports, Importers, Importance - everywhere already, Six:
https://csdb.dk/search/advancedresult.php?form%5Bcategory%5D=sc..
https://csdb.dk/search/advancedresult.php?form%5Bcategory%5D=gr.. |
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zzarko
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 66 |
"Yo mama is so imported that she is introlinked three times..." |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2062 |
@Higgie: What you describe as swapper-linking-nightmare actually happened. I recall stuff being modem-traded from US (ESI), let's say to Netherlands (Hotline) and from there to Weatern Germany, ending up in gamers being confronted with three intros before the gaming could begin. And I could name examples in which neither trainers nor video standard fixes were added by importers or import-importers. Still, that's morally(!) a lot better/less lame than last staion of trade stripping the crackers(!)' intro and either implicitly/rather vaguely or totally wrongly and boldly claiming to have cracked it - which also happened.
Back to categories. Maybe "Pseudo Import" would help to express that moral statement/distinguish overseas/PAL<->NTSC trade from lame intro-linking. But who would do the job of going through all the thousands of entries to flag them... As Hedning said, downvoting could also be a moral statement - IF anybody really cares enough to lame-vote tons of releases always keeping in mind that it has been so normal back in the 80s (though some over1338 sceners might have frowned about it even back then).
Hedning's definition "... as long there is no attempt to hide the original release; then it's a recrack." is imho better as Didi's old approach of sticking to video standard fixes, for this we've got flags already (Crack flags, credit flags). |
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Black Beard
Registered: Dec 2008
Posts: 11 |
Just to shed some light on the import scene of the 80's.
It was not the easiest thing to import in those early days.
Calling Europe and paying for that kind of long distance was not an option. In those days, calling within your same city could be long distance and expensive.
The life of an importer in the 80's:
1. Hack your own codes (several providers)
2. Pray to the gods for a good connection (try alternate code providers), 1200 wasn't always an option (bad lines, contacts with 300 baud)
3. The right software supplier, which you would need to work on and build by hacking Alliance conferencing systems.
4. Language barriers
5. Tons of download errors & retries. Hours to days for a successful usable download.
6. Modem auto answer was mostly not an option, give me a carrier... ok here it comes.
7. Hoping your group had a good NTSC fixer
I am sure I missed some stuff, but it was a long time ago. |
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