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TheTom
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2018
Posts: 29 |
Your favorite palette (Pepto, Colodore)?
Do you have your favorite palette that you use with your emulator? If so- which palette is it?
Perhaps you are an artist and there is a specific palette you would like images to be displayed with?
I am asking because I started my gallery with Pepto palette. It is the most popular one. After input from some people I added an option to change palette. You can see how this works, for example, here:
https://tomseditor.com/gallery/i/25/
I can add more palettes if you think I should. If you are an artist you can also choose which one should be the default palette for your image.
For example I think this image looks best in VICE:
https://tomseditor.com/gallery/i/25
While this one looks better in Colodore than in VICE:
https://tomseditor.com/gallery/i/251/
So I think it would best if an artist could declare which one he prefers. |
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Zirias
Registered: Jan 2014
Posts: 48 |
Discussing palettes often leads to rather lengthy discussions not leading anywhere ... the reasons are well-known: YUV colors can't be mapped directly to RGB and back then, the visual result differed a lot more from display to display (still the case today, but less extreme) and the typical monitor controls (brightness, contrast, saturation) also influenced hue. So one thing is for sure, there will never be THE definitive C64 palette, therefore it's a good idea when you provide a choice.
That said, you're aware colodore can generate palettes for different monitor settings? I personally like the result! I was using pepto for a long time, but tuning it a lot in the vice CRT controls ... now switched to colodore which doesn't need much tuning for me. |
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Digger
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 421 |
Was talking to Veto during X'2018 and he'd shown me the difference between Pepto and Colodore. Light colours ($3, $7, $d) turned out to be quite dirtish in Pepto, but Colodore seems too saturated. Tough one. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
the first thing you must understand is: there is neither a "pepto palette" nor a "colodore palette". both are only a way to calculate some colors.
the major difference between the two, btw, is the color angle used for green. no more no less :)
if you really want to do it right, you should add a palette calculation like on the colodore site, and forget about fixed palettes alltogether. they are always "wrong" :) |
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Zirias
Registered: Jan 2014
Posts: 48 |
I'd say the values given on https://www.pepto.de/projects/colorvic/2001/ are "the" pepto palette, although the site also explains the calculation and of course you can recalculate with different settings.
"the" colodore palette is probably what's shown on https://www.colodore.com/ by default. But the live calculation there is really cool :)
About wrong and right.... oh well, endless discussion :) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1289 |
Basically what Groepaz said. My personal favourite is more or less calculated from Colodore site with 70% saturation. Seems like sane dose of juice and reminds me most of what I usually saw on dedicated C64 monitors. |
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TheTom
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2018
Posts: 29 |
Quote: the first thing you must understand is: there is neither a "pepto palette" nor a "colodore palette". both are only a way to calculate some colors.
the major difference between the two, btw, is the color angle used for green. no more no less :)
if you really want to do it right, you should add a palette calculation like on the colodore site, and forget about fixed palettes alltogether. they are always "wrong" :)
I understand this is not exactly a palette but that's how it is usually called.
Sure, all palettes are wrong but some people actually got used to one or another. Maybe this was a palette their favorite emulator used. Or maybe that's how they remember it looked on their C64 (which they no longer own). Or maybe that's just what they like.
So am asking what "palette" (or Colodore) settings you guys like and I'll add more palettes to my site so you can use the one that looks "best" for you. Whatever "best" means in your case. |
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TheTom
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2018
Posts: 29 |
I added 2 more "palettes" so this should satisfy most people:
https://tomseditor.com/gallery/i/39687/ |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4586 |
Always used Pepto, always will. |
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Isildur
Registered: Sep 2006
Posts: 274 |
Same as Hedning (but you know this already) ;) |
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v3to
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 150 |
Personally I prefer Colodore. Actually I don't use Pepto anymore because the palette is slightly tinted and also causes issues with CYMK. Actually my 1084s would match Colodore with 70% saturation, but on a PC I use the default palette provided on Pepto's colorvic website.
Btw this pic is a comparison between the palette of the colour vic website (upper one) and pepto colours (picked from Timanthes).
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ChristopherJam
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1370 |
Jampal of course :P
But it's very similar to one of the Colodore variants; both come from hardware measurements, I just push the saturation a little more than most people.
[000000, ffffff, 7d202c, 4fb3a5, 84258c, 339840, 2a1b9d, bfd04a, 7f410d, 4c2e00, b44f5c, 3c3c3c, 646464, 7ce587, 6351db, 939393]
(cf http://jamontoads.net/p/lumachroma.html ) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
since that one is actually based on measurement... i have added it to VICE also. *ducks* |
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ChristopherJam
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1370 |
Hurrah! |
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ThunderBlade
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 75 |
The real challenge is the combination of a palette with the CRT PAL emulation of VICE. With Pepto + CRT + some adjustments in saturation etc., I get a picture that looks almost 1:1 like my 1084S standing next to my PC monitor.
Without CRT filter, Colodore looks better for most graphics. But the soil like tones in orange/brown are not working for me in Colodore. For example Katakis in Game Art Beyond just doesn't look right to me. So I stay with Pepto + CRT emulation right now. Of course with the scanline default setting changed so the scanlines aren't so extreme. This way it looks perfect for me. |
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Carrion
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317 |
"So I stay with Pepto + CRT emulation"
I do the same for similar reasons as ThunderBlade.
Also I guess Timanthes uses pepto and I simply get used to that.
But. I always try my gfx on real hardware +1084s monitor just to be sure of the results. |
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v3to
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 150 |
Quoting ThunderBladeThe real challenge is the combination of a palette with the CRT PAL emulation of VICE.
Jep, Colodore and VICE CRT emulation doesn't seem to be a good match. Even though I totally switched over to Colodore on VICE, because of my workflow preparing screenshots for the Return magazine.
In the past I used Pepto from time to time for pictures from artists that are using tools like Timanthes, Project One or similar, because pixel art usually looks best with the palette it has been created. But those pics are processed two times to different CYMK profiles and for some reason the Pepto palette behaves like shit, needs manual adjustments after each task and sometimes it still happens at the printing office that yellow looks like green, light blue like purple or light red turns out brighter than light grey. Colodore isn't perfect either in this case, but the results after conversion are definitely more reliable. |
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ThunderBlade
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 75 |
In the Return magazine I would prefer actual photos taken from real CRT... but you know that already ;-) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
i'd prefer those even on csdb :=) |
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v3to
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 150 |
Quoting ThunderBladeIn the Return magazine I would prefer actual photos taken from real CRT... but you know that already ;-)
You know that this is not possible for me, besides the C64 is not the only system in that section. ;) |
