| |
E$G
Registered: Dec 2007
Posts: 786 |
The obskure 1st release world!
Dear sceners & overall 1st release site & mags editors,
few days ago we went for a 1st release proposing and old game that we improved as we usually like to do:
Zig Zag +2DG
Few hours later Hedning/GP u/l an old crack of the same game:
Zig Zag
concerning to the rulez this automatically set our release as not to be 1st one.
No matter, we enjoyed the fun in do it and the positive feedback that most of time receive. But our target was not reached.
So please I like to know:
- is it correct that if an old crack pop up after the release that until that time wasn't available in the usual dbase vaults clean his value? I'm talking about mainly csdb &gb64.
- what is the exact/correct time that an old release can be resurrected to kill a 1st release - I said this because in my 12k double side old snail mail trade floppies I remember to have some of the 1st releases of last 6 years cracked by old group/sceners, but due to my lack of time probably will be buried with me!
- if there are no rulez about this yet, to finalize the perfection of 1st release system it will be nice to make suggestion about it.
I remember to the kind readers that there are some collection that are not shared yet or will remain pri-vate as request by the suppliers. Many unreleased side belong to Mason, Hedning, the transfer team and so on.
I don't point my finger to them because I know that free time suck and after the transfer a lot more must be spent to u/l in a decent way to our csdb.
Last but not least it will be useful to have a list of the dir contents to avoid waste of time.
This is my humble opinion of course. It could also happen that after the adrenaline rush when a new game is released most of 1st release group prefere this kind of risk.
Anyway I have great expectations about more clear rulez.
ThanX
E$G/ Hokuto Force |
|
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11108 |
This is something you should discuss on some BBS - because csdb is irrelevant to the first release nonsense.
There's no politically correct term for 'fucking idiot'. |
| |
Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 512 |
what mr.Gröpaz said
hey E$G, happy birthday!!! :) |
| |
hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
Hi! As the discussion is about the scene, and the releases exist here too, like it or not, this could of course be a suitable place, even if E$G also could have e-mailed the guys caring about this and asked us. Still there might be more people interested in this issue.
1. Yes. As long as a game has been cracked/released in the past (even if we haven't found the crack yet) will automatically, and logically, make the newer crack a non-1st release, thus a rerelease. That is the scary part of releasing old games. It has happened to, for example, GP (Mission on Thunderhead +DF), Triad (Gertie Goose +), Onslaught (The Last Ninja Demo) multiple times. That was just some examples. That is the risk of it. Good research is a must before releasing old games as firsties.
2. You can kill them whenever you want. Dig up these disks and get them transferred. Noone would be more happy than me. Or make someone else do it for you. Sounds like you have a treasure chest there.
3. The rules only states that the game released as a 1st release must not have been released before. It's up to the releaser to make sure it hasn't been released. Of course the editors of the first release lists will double check oldies.
90% of my collections I have transferred have been made available on csdb and as whole collections on http://scenebase.org/ and http://c64disks.hvilket.net/ . The only collections I have not shared are the ones that the owner forbids me to share the content. The Transfer Team is another question - they have a lot that is not shared, and also a lot the cannot share. It's nothing unfair about that. I don't have their stuff either.
Your release in question were available in a public archive, and was nothing I had hidden away somewhere. And it was absolutely nothing personal. When an oldie firstie pops up I do my job as a first release list editor and check the archives. Nothing more. It can happen to anyone out there, and as you saw: it happened to us to in the past.
The rules are very clear: you can't claim a first release of a already released and cracked game. That is self explanatory in my world.
And: Happy birthday! |
| |
Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 512 |
I'll be as happy as you Hedning if E$G will follow your advice about point #2. :)
the day a time machine will be invented you could have the 1st release of any full-price game years before their coders were even born. ehmm... |
| |
E$G
Registered: Dec 2007
Posts: 786 |
@Hedning:
I did a public thread here because it's the most visited place so everyone can drop his opinion. Obviously I'm not claiming any decision must be taken.
It's not a matter of research, the few groups contending the cup of the 1st release @99% are doin' a deep search but if the previous crack sleep on a floppy or private transfer it become impossible to know it before.
Nobody forces us to provide the scene with this unreleased old stuff or take part of the 1st rel game, I personally think that this system is not perfect and fair, I mean for all the contenders.
Do you, and all the others groups involved, think will be wrong to fix a timezone line not retro-active?
Do you think that if not available here and in other sites and never u/l yet can be equal as never released before?
Again I think that friends that buy an original on ebay for 40 euro to make a 1st then discover that was already made maybe after 10 months won't make them happy!
I don't speak just for myself and my group but a new kind of rule could be applied. It will motivate more groups to partecipate and be active, risk reduced satisfaction guaranteed. Scene alive. This 1st release game make me smile, we the world united sceners invented the trainer to play faster and exploring the game, it's like now we built up an handicap way to proceed. Slow bbs, hard to reach, access limited, oldie already released risk, fast&fury release with poor work and low testing. Probably I'm gettin' old and not tasting the real deal fun. thanX for the wishes and a cold beer for you or a "calice di rosso". |
| |
E$G
Registered: Dec 2007
Posts: 786 |
@ZeSmasher / Hedning and all the supporters of my floppies, I will be the happiest man on earth to refresh memories and share my stuff, It will happen but I don't know when. I will provide single releases never u/l before and complete side of the floppy with dir name as it was, to fully preserve. |
| |
bepp
Registered: Jun 2010
Posts: 263 |
Been there, done that. Agree, it sucks when you've worked your ass off on a release, just to find out [later] that it had already been cracked.
Claiming a firstie for an oldie is like challenging other crackers/preservers: "Prove us wrong if you can".
I think the rules are very simple here: if someone has made it before, it's already out there somewhere - even if it's not on csdb yet. And it's just gonna be a matter of time until someone finds it.
To me that's just part of the game [pun intended]. There's always a risk when doing oldies. If you can't live with that risk (or expenses) then perhaps it's "safer" to focus on new games.
I think you should be proud that you've probably done a superior version than previous cracks. That's how I feel with the ones we've had "de-firstied" =) |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11108 |
plot twist: did anyone bother to define what exactly constitutes a "first release" on csdb yet?
There's no politically correct term for 'fucking idiot'. |
| |
hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
Quote: plot twist: did anyone bother to define what exactly constitutes a "first release" on csdb yet?
There's no politically correct term for 'fucking idiot'.
It's determined by the lists. There are two at the moment. CSDb does not actively decide that. We leave it to them. But you knew that. |
| |
hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
E$G: So, just because your friend paid €40 the release should be counted, otherwise he bought it in vain? If you only knew how much I have spent buying originals that were already cracked/100% basic/not working. That is part of the game, and the risk.
And: As I told you: The crack in question is available in a public collection. Some better digging would have found it.
PS. It's on manikus.SB. You can find it on scenebase.org. |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11108 |
You have just confirmed that still noone bothered to define it. But you probably think you did.
There's no politically correct term for 'fucking idiot'. |
| |
hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
Quote: You have just confirmed that still noone bothered to define it. But you probably think you did.
There's no politically correct term for 'fucking idiot'.
If CSDb would like to add even more work and drama to the database, we should define what a first release is here. Instead we should mirror the scene. CSDb should not take part in scene politics. We should run a database. That is my view. |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11108 |
if csdb wants to run a database, it must define what exactly the various elements in the database mean. the only other option is arbitrariness and the resulting chaos.
There's no politically correct term for 'fucking idiot'. |
| |
E$G
Registered: Dec 2007
Posts: 786 |
Demotivation win against good way to handle the things.
A scener a group won't spend so much money for nothing, if the target is do a 1st. They won't risk if there is a penalty and a game played alone won't be so funny.
Let's see the evolution and I'd like to know more opinions or mouth shut means I agree with the past forever & ever?
Nostradamus predicted Laxity #1 so why try to beat 'em?
Groepaz is right counting bbs decide what a 1st is, we, or better they separated the 2 worlds, but a 1st here can't be validated without consulting the outside world... weird. |
| |
hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
Quote: if csdb wants to run a database, it must define what exactly the various elements in the database mean. the only other option is arbitrariness and the resulting chaos.
There's no politically correct term for 'fucking idiot'.
As csdb should mirror the scene the element ”1st release” should be used for releases that is considered 1st releases by the scene. We should not judge that here.
But now we are off topic: E$G was asking why he can’t have a first release of a game that was already cracked, as the game original costed €40 on eBay, and it demotivates him. |
| |
E$G
Registered: Dec 2007
Posts: 786 |
@Hedning: I rarely speak about myself / group, since the argument is more articolated. My consideration was about motivation to produce 1st releases. As you have told, you should be one of the pissed off, money gone & always on the hunt to provide GP with preview & new stuff on the risk edge, masochism or new pleasure? Probably this is your motivation.
I take care of the scene, that is a mix of friendship, competition, hate and subjective opinions, since I jumped inside on 1984.
Democratic decisions have been already taken about it, all is improving, the db here since beginning, so the focus is there is a way to improve the 1st release pain game?
Or it's already enough complicated and closed system, the un-perfection is reached let us play, no proposal accepted anymore? |
| |
hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
Oh. Propsals are always welcome. Feel free to e-mail me and Dr.Strange, and I am sure Jazzcat is happy to hear from you as well. That way your proposal will be discussed for both Attitude/Propa List and the VN List.
Looking forwards to hear from you. |
| |
Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 553 |
My 2cents..
First releases are nothing to do with CSDB ... it's a database. I see people repeatedly mention this - and yet the tag is still present.
Right now the main first release lists are Propaganda List and the VN alternative to that. These lists are based off rules developed over many years of course.
If First Releases are seen as a competition and they're not interesting for some - I know Bacchus had ideas for changes - then just create a 3rd competition? A monthly game, somehow chosen randomly (not easy of course as if someone knows the game in advance then they have a huge advantage), where everyone competes on certain criteria.. total disk space, number of (genuine) trainers, etc.
The existing First Release competitions are of course fun for those who like them .. and I imagine that the risks of wasting money and time add to the strength of it. It shouldn't be as easy as just being the first to spot a game show up on eBay - that's only part of the game, surely? |
| |
enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 675 |
I agree with hednings 1st reply (if anyone cares).
And to calm down I suggest to remove "first release" flag from entries here and instead introduce a "best release" :) |
| |
Flavioweb
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 447 |
Quoting enthusiI suggest to remove "first release" flag from entries here and instead introduce a "best release" :)
❤ |
| |
cba
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 932 |
To avoid such a problems in the future, just ask Mason for his arkiv.lst file and check if there is already a crack of a game in his archive.
A quick grep :
Z\ZigZag+-ACE.zip
Z\ZigZag+-Dram.zip
Z\ZigZag+-Laser.zip
Z\ZigZag+-Lightforce.zip
Z\ZigZag+-Papillons.zip
Z\ZigZag+11-Nostalgia.zip
Z\ZigZag+2-SAP.zip
Z\ZigZag-Anden.zip
Z\ZigZag-Antitrax.zip
Z\ZigZag-Double.zip
Z\ZigZag-FantasyCrackingService.zip
Z\ZigZag-Hotline&RAD.zip
Z\ZigZag-Hotline.zip
Z\ZigZag-Ikari.zip
Z\ZigZag-Level99.zip
Z\ZigZag-SoftrunnerGroup.zip
Z\ZigZag-TCP.zip
Z\ZigZag-THT.zip
Z\ZigZag-TheGoonies.zip
Z\ZigZag-WandererGroup.zip
Z\ZigZag-Yeti.zip
Z\ZigZag2+-RoughTradeIncorporated&TSM.zip
Z\ZigZag2-NDC.zip
Z\ZigZagTheRemix+-TAW.zip
Z\ZigZagTheRemix+-Thanatos.zip |
| |
Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 512 |
cba, those are A.Crowther's zigzag, a different and cooler game.
I remember Zig Zag +2DG very well probably because of the funny green monster. I played it in the far past and I didn't buy the original, which means: it was cracked. |
| |
spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 444 |
Quoting cbaA quick grep
Unfortunately 'grep'-ing a text-list won't give you the info that most of the results refer to another game with the same name ;-) |
| |
cba
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 932 |
Quote: Quoting cbaA quick grep
Unfortunately 'grep'-ing a text-list won't give you the info that most of the results refer to another game with the same name ;-)
Sure I agree, this list just helps you to see if something has been cracked and then you'll need to dig deeper if there zigzag is the one you'll have. |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11108 |
Quote:As csdb should mirror the scene the element ”1st release” should be used for releases that is considered 1st releases by the scene. We should not judge that here.
you are, once again, missing the point. defining what a database field means has exactly nothing to do with making up your own definition of what a "first release" is. a proper specification could just as well be "whatever is written in attitude counts". its just that "whatever the scene thinks" is not a proper definition at all. also pointing to someone elses list implies that you cant use the flag on csdb until someone elses list was published and actually can serve as a reference. If you really want to just document "what the scene says" then you cant add this info unless "the scene" actually said it.
There's no politically correct term for 'fucking idiot'. |
| |
hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
Quote: Quote:As csdb should mirror the scene the element ”1st release” should be used for releases that is considered 1st releases by the scene. We should not judge that here.
you are, once again, missing the point. defining what a database field means has exactly nothing to do with making up your own definition of what a "first release" is. a proper specification could just as well be "whatever is written in attitude counts". its just that "whatever the scene thinks" is not a proper definition at all. also pointing to someone elses list implies that you cant use the flag on csdb until someone elses list was published and actually can serve as a reference. If you really want to just document "what the scene says" then you cant add this info unless "the scene" actually said it.
There's no politically correct term for 'fucking idiot'.
This is what I meant. CSDb should not judge what is a first release or not. The only definitions there are are the ones in the lists, and they can differ, and have differed always during the years. What I meant is that if we should mirror first releases as a tag in CSDb, we should have tags like "First release according to VN", "First release according to Sex'n Crime" etc etc. Detective job. As it is now all first releases gets tagged the same, and the info about who judges and according to what rules are lost. Not a good solution as it is. Is it better than not having it at all? That is the question: kill the tag completely, or expand it to be more accurate? |
| |
Mr.Ammo
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 228 |
Quoting E$GA scener a group won't spend so much money for nothing, if the target is do a 1st. Whenever there's money involved always make sure to do do some proper due diligence. Of course it's never fun seeing that a financial investment and all the hard work in creating this release seemed to be a for nothing. But, it's all part of the game. So, take if from Ariana Grande: "Thank you, NEXT!". |
| |
E$G
Registered: Dec 2007
Posts: 786 |
@Mr.Ammo: For HF is never a waste of time, we provide to the scene the release, enjoying in doing it - enjoying the feedback. If the release it's a 1st and forever will be, even better.
I was talking about the investors of money and time just to climb the 1st release chart and only in this case if they won't reach their target can consider it fault. Probably all the adrenaline, bring a total exciment that if it happens it's enough for them. Different head and feelings.
---
Groepaz, is partecipating with interesting clues.
About 1st, it's a flag that we select, as I said before, because of external rules and way to face the release.
BBS bring the date and time of the u/l. Charts editors validate it.
Usually the release is u/l on the bbs and then here.
Even if csdb is just a db, we are all working for the most accurate info possible.
So for me the flag can remain and as (H) suggested we can be more accurate. Maybe in the summaries. The definition can be never cracked/handled before. I will talk about a creation of a time line with the monks of this rule.
About the list, can be considered just as a warning, like in
stock investment market. But if the release is not u/l can't affect 1st release value.
We have also in the db some releases that miss it, we just read it in a scroll that exist. But time and broken floppies could not to bring it back.
Not so many sceners are partecipating here, so I can consider 1st release a micro world in the micro world of the scene, or even worse they don't care so much, the value is just in the game. |
| |
Dr.Strange
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 100 |
I know, as Bepp said, it sucks when spend time and money and then you find someone which released the crack before. That's why I spent years building a personal crack releases archive to make sure nothing has been around before. Takes time, but I guess a good supplier nowadays should be in charge of doing that and finding the right orries. At least or Propaganda we are quite clear about: a first is a first. If it has been released before, no matter the quality, it's not considered a first release.
Edit: And yes, contact hedning or myself re suggestions about the rules. |
| |
Fix
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 54 |
What is a first release?
Let's say there are this unprotected game, and someone just entered their name with an hexeditor ingame and then spread it.
Is that then a first release?
Or a game that is tracked based, and as above someone just hexedited the disk and made a copy is that also a first release?
Or is it required some work the quality as an first release or crack in general.
Now I'm thinking of older games way back... |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11108 |
To me a "Firstrelease" is the firt release.
And thats exactly why its important to define what exactly this "Firstrelease" tag means :)
There's no politically correct term for 'fucking idiot'. |
| |
bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2476 |
Well, the quarrels about who made a firstrelease probably date back to the ancient times of the cracking scene. Judging that for many old releases appears to be an impossible task, so the value of the tag can indeed be doubted.
With regards to money wasted, imagine how many original suppliers "wasted" their money when there were not a handful, but many dozens of groups in the cracking game - yet only one could claim the firstie fame.
For a new crack of an old game, the supplier can always console himself that he has acquired at least a very rare original for the collection. And for the cracker, that he has very probably released a version superior to the original firstrelease. |
| |
TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2062 |
Suggestion: Give up bothering (pain-in-the-)BB(as)S 1st release race for good and simply believe in calendars and clocks to find out what's first _IF_ you give a damn.
As it's simply beyond ridiculousness that sb could upload a release here on 32nd of Smarch 2019 and then be "officially"(!<-LOL) outrun by some BBS dickfencers who managed to upload it on X of Y "counting" boards on 33rd of Smarch 2019, excuse my language, it does not make sense to care a lot about them "charts". I like the idea of time travelling but before you show me your Delorian with Flux-Compensator in which your BBS is running, I'm not gonna be convinced.
Some people seem to think worldwide C64 crackers _must_ bend to rules, no matter how silly they are. Other people just crack and have fun. And some fun can even be seeing 1338 cr4xX0r2 going bananas if whatever you release violates some "rules" as if you have to ask permission at the United Nations Council of Cracking to label sth first release just because it's definetely available to gamers before other versions.
*GASP* Ranting done for this time, waiting for version #4711 of this discussion :) |
| |
Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
TheRyk: Upload to the boards. This has existed before the internet became public and before many even chose their first handle. Follow it or don't.
http://www.atlantis-prophecy.org/recollection/?load=the_list |
| |
hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
TheRyk: Why even care about the C64 at all then? It's obsolete for the main part of humanity these days. We do this for the love of the C64: Demos, cracks and even the BBS scene. If it's a pain in the ass to use boards: learn, and you might find it fun. Because it is just as fun as doing other stuff for the c64. And think of all the hours spent on the boards by the sysops. Support the boards. They are an important part of the C64 scene. |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11108 |
Quote:Upload to the boards.
<sandra bullock> OR ELSE!!!
There's no politically correct term for 'fucking idiot'. |
| |
Mr.Ammo
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 228 |
Quoting JazzcatTheRyk: Upload to the boards. This has existed before the internet became public and before many even chose their first handle. Follow it or don't. Let's forget the ghosts of the past and focus on the future. |
| |
spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 444 |
Quoting hedninglearn, and you might find it fun.
Hm. Don't know if I missed sth. the last time I tried (what has been a while ago I admit), but I couldn't figure out a way to upload from my C64. Using some weird PETSCII terminal emulation on my PC wasn't exactly what I'd describe as "fun".
Sorry for side discussion here. |
| |
Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933 |
The obskure 1st release game, starring:
Programmer: It has to be exact.
Organizer: Let the people decide.
Artist: I'll decide, thank you.
Hoarder: These are all gems.
Lurker: You guys crack me up. |
| |
Tim
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 467 |
Happy (late) birthday Esg :)
I think everyone involved in first releases will have stepped into this trap once or twice.
No points seems fair, although shitty after hard work, I'm sure a release will still get honorable mentions from Propalist and VN though.
That said, perhaps Hedning and Jazzcat can define some rules as to what does or does not qualify for minus points.. As I'm not entirely sure how those are counted.
As for motivating charts, quality point system, etc. I think it's safe to say everyone cracking wants to see a modern version of gamers guide.. buuut no one wants to put in the hard effort of making that. |
| |
Mason
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 459 |
Quote: Dear sceners & overall 1st release site & mags editors,
few days ago we went for a 1st release proposing and old game that we improved as we usually like to do:
Zig Zag +2DG
Few hours later Hedning/GP u/l an old crack of the same game:
Zig Zag
concerning to the rulez this automatically set our release as not to be 1st one.
No matter, we enjoyed the fun in do it and the positive feedback that most of time receive. But our target was not reached.
So please I like to know:
- is it correct that if an old crack pop up after the release that until that time wasn't available in the usual dbase vaults clean his value? I'm talking about mainly csdb &gb64.
- what is the exact/correct time that an old release can be resurrected to kill a 1st release - I said this because in my 12k double side old snail mail trade floppies I remember to have some of the 1st releases of last 6 years cracked by old group/sceners, but due to my lack of time probably will be buried with me!
- if there are no rulez about this yet, to finalize the perfection of 1st release system it will be nice to make suggestion about it.
I remember to the kind readers that there are some collection that are not shared yet or will remain pri-vate as request by the suppliers. Many unreleased side belong to Mason, Hedning, the transfer team and so on.
I don't point my finger to them because I know that free time suck and after the transfer a lot more must be spent to u/l in a decent way to our csdb.
Last but not least it will be useful to have a list of the dir contents to avoid waste of time.
This is my humble opinion of course. It could also happen that after the adrenaline rush when a new game is released most of 1st release group prefere this kind of risk.
Anyway I have great expectations about more clear rulez.
ThanX
E$G/ Hokuto Force
When I saw you guys released Thomas The Tank Engine's Fun With Words I told one of my great friends that I was almost sure I have seen a crack of it back then. Suddenly one day some weeks ago I saw it on a disk
Same with this game and a few others I still think they will show up someday:
Multi-Player Soccer Manager +MD
It's a bit of a gamble releasing those games as they might show up one day on a disk |
| |
Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Quote: Quoting JazzcatTheRyk: Upload to the boards. This has existed before the internet became public and before many even chose their first handle. Follow it or don't. Let's forget the ghosts of the past and focus on the future.
You have moved to the PC scene? :P |
| |
hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
Quote: You have moved to the PC scene? :P
:D +1 |
| |
Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 154 |
Drawback of CSDb discussions is that you cannot post GIFs of people eating popcorn ;-)
=> I think one part is really clear; if a game was cracked and released to the general public before then the firstie was claimed by that release. If the game is not on CSDb then, please mind that whereas they want to have a full history, it's not there yet. So just scanning CSDb will not cut it. It's *scene* first release - not *CSDb* first release.
=> You can still have arguments if the old crack didn't make today's standards. Most notably if the game isn't file copyable. Was the old crack proper? By that times standard possible, but not by today's standards.
=> It's really strange that CDSB has the firstie flag in the first place as this is the centrepiece of release scene controversy. If CSDb is not being involved in scene politics but still providing a field that is truly disputed, then it's forever difficult to stay out of politics. Especially when CSDb moderators change it. While claiming not to be part of politics. That is plain silly. Defies all logic.
=> Again, please mind, firstie on CSDb is basically only an opinion of the poster. Rather than delete it I would say "First release claimed" and then everybody can make their own mind and the lists can disregard the claim if they find it to be false. Or "First release as per xxx". Just "first release" is not a fact but a disputed opinion and databases really shouldn't contain disputed opinions.
=> Isn't the key effort now to make versions that beat the old version? What N0S and Rememeber are doing is contributing MUCH more to the spirit that the chase for firsties. The efforts to produce EasyFlash version drastically improve the playability even if they are not first.
/Pontus "Bacchus" Berg
PS: I'm not against the running for first, I'm against that being the only merit of a release. For me that's merely ONE aspect. AND, if the running for first, basing this is a totally ridiculous system of BBSes that are totally unreliable and where a objective timestamp is basically not possible I what disturbs me. I want competition on releases, be it EasyFlash, REU, Firsties, Shortest, supporting most drives or whichever dimension of release you favour, but first first the MUST be a real and solid way to determine an undisputed time for a release and BBSes are not part of that.
Having said that, I still think it's great if current commercial software is only spread amongst the BBSes. THAT'S the role I still fell the BBSes can fill. Just don't expect me to ever visit one ... |
| |
TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2062 |
The argument "BBSes have been there before the Internet." Well, stone engraving has been around longer than floppy discs... I think, you see what I'm aiming at.
Quoting 'Jazzcat'Follow it or don't.
I'd rather not
- unless:
Quoting 'Bacchus'commercial software
Bacchus really has a point there. And this is good news as BBSes might have enough sense to exist because of that only reason, so no one needs to fear they die (though I must admit I would probably not cry as much as others if that was ever going to happen). Bacchus also nailed the current situation in general very well. I actually doubt that anything Bacchus states in that posting can be denied even by the biggest BBS fetishists.
[OffTopic] (as gamer's perspective does not matter in any charts)
At the end of the day, beside the questions
- who has the coolest intro,
- who was the fastest to upload on whatever media,
- who has the highest street scene credibility,
- who violated whatever fancy standards,
- who has got the longest schlong,
cracks are meant to be _played_.
As I once was a gamer and still actually play C64 games, even on real hardware (though not as often as I should), I assure you that all these questions have hardly ever played a role when I (as a gamer) had the choice to pick from a bunch of cracks of the same game by various groups.
[/off] |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11108 |
Quote:who has got the longest schlong
case closed :) |
| |
Claus_2015
Registered: Oct 2012
Posts: 53 |
Quote: You have moved to the PC scene? :P
You know that you are in a retro forum, when the PC scene is seen as "the future" \o/ |
