| |
rupy
Registered: Mar 2020
Posts: 27 |
Removing Intros
Some guy made a collection of single file .prg's without intros (for loading speed):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xZssapU9yY (download in description)
Perfect for RR-Net! |
|
| |
Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 512 |
not as lame as recracking (i.e. removing an intro and adding another intro, taking all the creditz) but if those prg's are not original games that is still lame for me. |
| |
rupy
Registered: Mar 2020
Posts: 27 |
I guess he could credit the original crackers?
I'm curious why the files are either 64K or compressed, is there no way to make the .prg to size without compressing it for even faster load? |
| |
hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4584 |
Quote: Some guy made a collection of single file .prg's without intros (for loading speed):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xZssapU9yY (download in description)
Perfect for RR-Net!
Removing intros is very unscene. For me they are the main reason to load up most games anyhows. :D |
| |
Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 549 |
I gotta share this thread with some non-scene friend ;-!
They complain about crackers on CSDB not crediting the original game creators (I understand and agree with the reasons for not crediting such - this is CSDB not Lemon64). But now we could have the crackers complaining that someone’s uncracked their crack without credit ;-) .. the irony would make my Twitter friends explode. |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
Bonus points if you drag them into a related thread on lemon.
I hope those twitter friends all buy their C64 games. |
| |
rupy
Registered: Mar 2020
Posts: 27 |
Apparently he only used original releases and removed the original intros. |
| |
Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1289 |
+1 for adding your own intro for these! :D |
| |
hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4584 |
Quote: +1 for adding your own intro for these! :D
! :D |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
And make a csdb entry for every single one |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
PS: someone from TRSI made a similar collection years ago (even often with trainers). should we make entries for it? =) |
| |
Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 512 |
Quote: Apparently he only used original releases and removed the original intros.
yeah, seems so. so you can rename the topic now :)
I downloaded the zip, it's a nice collection. if you know the guy pls tell him "thanks!" |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
just do it: https://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=76305 |
| |
Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1820 |
Without the "Perfect for RR-Net!" quote actually judging the "releases" there I would have taken the initial post as informational.
With it in mind I'd rather vote for a rupy ban! How dare you?!
This place is all about credits (and made up credits for which the binary is just/still/forever missing)!
With some bad retroPie setups even the space key isn't mapped easily to the attached controller. You may like the crap linked up there whenever utilising something alike but just noting the existence here is sure demonishing.
Sigh ... "sceners" ... ?!?!? |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
Quote:Apparently he only used original releases and removed the original intros.
also: StatMat
so indeed, it deserves an entry in the db. |
| |
MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1055 |
As much as I love intros, SID music, and the scene, I still think that games are best preserved with the copy protection removed and a nice fastloader, but nothing else added. Intros and trainers can be added as a separate load for those of us that want it. |
| |
rupy
Registered: Mar 2020
Posts: 27 |
@Count Zero For someone who has worked on the RR-Net stuff I'm surprised to see you react negatively about someone celebrating single file .prgs to the point of banning because I don't want to press N many times and/or RUN/STOP every time I start a game? |
| |
Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
CSDb is a C64 scene database, with emphasis on scene. Here we try to gather as much information and as many releases as possible from the C64 scene.
Even if some like to think of it as their playground, or want to try to stretch the limits for what's supposed to be here and not; that is not the main purpose of this site. And you know that.
Try to do something productive instead. |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
As long as you cant define what is "scene" and what is not - thats quite a statement >_< |
| |
rupy
Registered: Mar 2020
Posts: 27 |
@Zyron It's hard to do something productive when I don't know how yet. Getting banned is not going to improve that situation. As for the scene, it is what you make it; specially when you are moderators; you are supposed to help people, not threaten them. |
| |
Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1820 |
IMHO this topic boils down to "sceners would not propagate recracks".
You are required to press some keys to run pirated free software without copy protection and with sometimes added value? Wow! Thats blatant really - put the codewheels back in! |
| |
hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4584 |
Quote: @Zyron It's hard to do something productive when I don't know how yet. Getting banned is not going to improve that situation. As for the scene, it is what you make it; specially when you are moderators; you are supposed to help people, not threaten them.
The moderators have been trying to help you understand stuff since post 1. |
| |
Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2825 |
Quoting MagerValpAs much as I love intros, SID music, and the scene, I still think that games are best preserved with the copy protection removed and a nice fastloader, but nothing else added. Intros and trainers can be added as a separate load for those of us that want it. I'm with you there, except some games require a few bug-fixes and patches, while the go-to game medium these days would be a cartridge. =) |
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1627 |
The most controversial part of this thread was probably that Raistlin confessed to having friends outside of the scene. |
| |
hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4584 |
Quote: Quoting MagerValpAs much as I love intros, SID music, and the scene, I still think that games are best preserved with the copy protection removed and a nice fastloader, but nothing else added. Intros and trainers can be added as a separate load for those of us that want it. I'm with you there, except some games require a few bug-fixes and patches, while the go-to game medium these days would be a cartridge. =)
Yes, and the boards are meaningless too, as well as specific loaders and floppies - just go cartridge with everything - hell, why even stop there: Mega64 is coming, let's move there. Or even better. I heard there are new computers that have much more colours and memory than even the Amiga! Why not move there? I also think some demos have parts I don't like, long bitmap scrollers and stuff. Can't we just cut these parts out, and release them in a form we like? Noone would notice. It's easy now with Youtube, anyway. |
| |
hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4584 |
Quote: The most controversial part of this thread was probably that Raistlin confessed to having friends outside of the scene.
Don't trust that guy. ;) |
| |
Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2825 |
Quoting hedningYes, and the boards are meaningless too, as well as specific loaders and floppies - just go cartridge with everything - hell, why even stop there: Mega64 is coming, let's move there. Or even better. I heard there are new computers that have much more colours and memory than even the Amiga! Why not move there? I also think some demos have parts I don't like, long bitmap scrollers and stuff. Can't we just cut these parts out, and release them in a form we like? Noone would notice. It's easy now with Youtube, anyway. Settle down, Marv, take another pill.
When gaming on an original realthing C-64, nothing beats zero loading times. And you know i love playing around with disk drives otherwise. Just my 2 cents. :) |
| |
Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 512 |
Quote: The most controversial part of this thread was probably that Raistlin confessed to having friends outside of the scene.
we could debate if those who think to be sceners but have friends outside the scene are considered sceners or not. |
| |
hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4584 |
Quote: Quoting hedningYes, and the boards are meaningless too, as well as specific loaders and floppies - just go cartridge with everything - hell, why even stop there: Mega64 is coming, let's move there. Or even better. I heard there are new computers that have much more colours and memory than even the Amiga! Why not move there? I also think some demos have parts I don't like, long bitmap scrollers and stuff. Can't we just cut these parts out, and release them in a form we like? Noone would notice. It's easy now with Youtube, anyway. Settle down, Marv, take another pill.
When gaming on an original realthing C-64, nothing beats zero loading times. And you know i love playing around with disk drives otherwise. Just my 2 cents. :)
We all love diskdrives even more thanx to you. :) |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
Quote:we could debate if those who think to be sceners but have friends outside the scene are considered sceners or not.
do it! |
| |
TWW
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 541 |
Quote: Quote:we could debate if those who think to be sceners but have friends outside the scene are considered sceners or not.
do it!
What about those of us who don't have friends in or outside the scene? |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
Moderators? |
| |
Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1820 |
CSDb mods are the only true sceners - knew it all the way.
Hm, now how to humiliate all the others - esp. those with "friends"?
Reminds me of the trivia here Xidex - sometimes you need to tell the world... :) |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
Quote:CSDb mods are the only true sceners - knew it all the way.
Was there ever the slightest doubt? |
| |
hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4584 |
Quote: Quote:CSDb mods are the only true sceners - knew it all the way.
Was there ever the slightest doubt?
Well. We did vote about it to be sure. Now we know. |
| |
zzarko
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 66 |
Back in the 80s and 90s I had maybe 20 5.25" floppies and the space on them was precious to me. I also removed intros from everything that I could, so I could put more stuff on those floppies. Also used programs to populate tracks 37-40.
When I made my first 128kb cartridge, I also tried to remove intros from everything, so I could put more programs on it. Spent 2-3 days making my "perfect 128k compilation". |
| |
Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 512 |
Quote: Back in the 80s and 90s I had maybe 20 5.25" floppies and the space on them was precious to me. I also removed intros from everything that I could, so I could put more stuff on those floppies. Also used programs to populate tracks 37-40.
When I made my first 128kb cartridge, I also tried to remove intros from everything, so I could put more programs on it. Spent 2-3 days making my "perfect 128k compilation".
since you confessed that crime the scene may forgive you, but only if you now do another compilation with intros where games are removed :) |
| |
TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2053 |
Quoting MagerValpAs much as I love intros, SID music, and the scene, I still think that games are best preserved with the copy protection removed and a nice fastloader, but nothing else added. ...
I disagree. I'd rather opt for crack intros without the game. The intros are more often than not the only thing that matters.
Seriously, intro-stripping not lame anymore in 2020? Totally whacko to even imagine that. |
| |
Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 321 |
from the lemon post:
Quote:"But as I've recently been playing C64 games with my 8 year old son, I wanted a collection without additional menus and decrunching steps to minimise the fuss of playing games"
that's the least impressive excuse I've heard in quite some time. Don't get me wrong, nothing bad about having 'original' copies (i mean original & physical disk/tape, not a copy of it) but this person needs to drop the story from the land of fantasy and make believe. If an 8yo can't work out the mysteries of pressing space and y or n then it'd be time to look at the parenting skills of this person writing that lemon post. |
| |
MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1055 |
Quoting TheRykQuoting MagerValpAs much as I love intros, SID music, and the scene, I still think that games are best preserved with the copy protection removed and a nice fastloader, but nothing else added. ...
I disagree. I'd rather opt for crack intros without the game. The intros are more often than not the only thing that matters.
There is no disagreement here. Intros for us, games for everyone. |
| |
Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 512 |
C64 intros brought me to ze scene, not C64 games. So "games without intros for everyone" means less attraction power for those who live in that world and want to enter the dark side. |
| |
Copyfault
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 466 |
A real interesting thread, has some popcorn moments;)
Thoughts that crossed my mind while reading:
- even though removing an intro from a cracked game steals a big (in most cases the biggest) scene component from the release, the game itself (assuming it's a crack with trainers) still has scene elements in it
- I'm still undecided what to think about that cart praise for game dev nowadays; ofcourse it *is* nice to have ~0s loading times, but... well, the c64-purist in me secretly keeps hoping for a c64+vc1541-stock-version, even if that is unpossible. Then again: never giving up on trying is very scene ;)
- How does the ratio of [no. of non-scene game developers : no. of game developer that are part of the scene] look like currently? Makes it even harder to play the "games for them, intros for us"-card... |
| |
wil
Registered: Jan 2019
Posts: 42 |
My thoughts:
Intros and cracks are a big part of the scene and it is of utmost importance to preserve them.
But I don't think that somebody who wants to play games should be forced to watch them - I don't think this will draw youngsters into the scene. Let this dad have his way.
If we are concerned about the next generation, we need to consider the barrier for youngsters - remember we all started small. Currently, it requires great effort and skill (e.g. no BASIC, high quality, no generators) to be acknowleged. This draws new people rather onto other platforms like Bitsy, Scratch, Pico8, Unity to name just a few. |
