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CenTraX
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 117 |
IFFL System by Taboo
I need this system?? Anybody? Links? |
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 716 |
What is so magic about IFFL? Code it yourself. |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1153 |
Interestingly, I could predict this kind of reply before I read it. :) One could ask also, what is so magic about it that (afaik) no sourcecode to a fast-scanning IFFL system has been released. It's still a pride for those who use it right?
Well, at least my lame brain has finally understood how jobcode $e0 can be used for easy custom decoding of sector (ie. decode only link bytes), so maybe you'll see someday covertbitops IFFL-system, with source :)
(don't hold your breath) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
HCL: arent you a bit too rude ? |
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hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474 |
what's so magic about anything? lets delete all tools in csdb |
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iopop
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 317 |
Bah, lame ass coders.. Go code something usefull instead. =P
Considering CenTraX have been upping some polish warez and also requesting the very same. The reason for asking about it could be to complete the archives over poland?
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Ben
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 163 |
In case you have not looked at their site:
http://taboo.eu.org/download/loaders.zip
I am not sure whether this is what you are looking for.. |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1153 |
Those are IRQ-loaders for single files. |
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Ben
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 163 |
Cadaver: I commenced holding my breath -- please hurry :) |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1153 |
I might code something in near future. But it will be for learning purposes only and will most possibly suck. However, you'll get the idea.. |
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Ben
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 163 |
I am far from familiar with actually driving the device, but I can imagine that the IFFL driver needs to instruct the device not to read the first Track/Sector reference from the file entry in the dir-track 18, but rather use one you provide when initializing the reading.
Of course the ordinary TS chain can be followed then, retrieving the data belonging together.
The huge files you usually see (at least in the early 90s) is probably BS as the device would not reallocate sectors as these are reserved in the BAM block (and as said before the file-entry is not needed).
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 716 |
Sorry for not being able to express my self clearly, but for a start, can anyone tell what IFFL is short for? It's not InterlacedFileFormatLogo. To me IFFL is simply an archive of many files stuffed (possibly compressed) info one file, like Borderline/Triad(!). So you'll need a special loader to read it.
But as far as i understrand, the question was not how it works, but only if someone has got it (the TabooIFFLStuff). Great, i don't. |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
maybe it's a variation from amiga IFF? interleaved file format. |
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iopop
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 317 |
Accordning to #c-64 sources iffl is short for "Interleaved Flexible File Loader".
Combined with Grahams suggestion and the basic rule about c64 invetions to have "flexible" included in the name. I think it makes sense.
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White Flame
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 136 |
Just use REL files. That's what they're there for. :) |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1153 |
Ben: a good IFFL system will survive filecopying of the datafile (it's big, but still completely standard), so there can be no direct T/S information of where each file starts, but rather the loader must first "scan" through the whole datafile, starting completely "legally" (T/S from directory) and making note of every file's startpoint T/S/offset as it goes through the chain.
For this, a table of file lengths is required.
And no, REL files are lame :)
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 465 |
Before I understood IFFL (which is easy to understand) I just linked all the files into 1 for a gfx colly and just made it forever stream. Worked. Probably not good for the drive being always active.
somewhere I had some adapted version of level crusher that used standard IO routines to depack needed part. I basically depacked and discared everything until it got to where it needed to be. |
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Case
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 138 |
I always thought that IFFL had its own track & sector reference table located at the start of the file. By reference table, i mean specific to the actual IFFL file itself, not the floppy. I have some IFFL source's on a disk somewhere, but never really looked at them as there were some pre-compiled stuff available for use by anyone who wanted them.
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 465 |
I can't see how track/sector table would be useful unless people only disk copied although it could bypass a need for scanning before use. I understand using a table for sizes.
I did stumble across 1 IFFL system where everything was in 1 file. I was very impressed by it - think it may even have some MWS magic in it. Load the 600+ file, it would use some magic to auto run, not sure if it was zeropage or IRQ pointers or something but I enjoyed it. |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1153 |
Rant & code released. It ended up sucking not that much but approach still with caution. |
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Ben
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 163 |
Cadaver: I just ended up at your website. I will be looking at some of your 'rants' soon (I am @ work, so no time now..). Some of them look interesting even from the glance.. Keep it up :)
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White Flame
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 136 |
geez, cadaver, show some restraint. ;) "No, I don't need IFFL... don't hold your breath... aw, fine already! here it is!" |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1153 |
Well I don't need it. But it was fun to code the entire track scanning thing. |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
That's the spirit! ;-) |
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Mekong
Registered: Mar 2013
Posts: 6 |
Stryyker: Beta-Skip by MWS & Crisp. Loaded to under the screen, hence the autostart. Best publicly available system until Taboo did theirs, I used it too. Other IFFLs available at the time either had shit speeds, crap compression or weren't IFFLs at all (needed seeking through datafile for every access).
It's 2013 and the Taboo's CS section only links to Levelcrusher v1.0, not the complete linker system. I don't remember whether I used some third party linker/scanner with their packer, but I don't think so - that'd mean a high quality tool is missing from the DB. Please check your disks and upload if you have it (mine are 2500km from where I'm typing now). |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 616 |
Necro Post.
Anyways, there were other REAL iffl systems available (like zagon's or burglar's) but you had to be "someone" in order to get them. They weren't spread around to every lamer. Anyways it's not hard to code either, better to learn to code a loader and make your own, it's not that hard really.
Most iffl's are FAKE (Hi Snacky and Syllinor!) anyways and just sector linked , which defeats the purpose of saving space by linking the files...
Pretty sure Cadaver's rant is based on Zagon's. My system is too (although I can code it completely myself from scratch) , and even n0sd0s is based on the same ideas and code base. |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1153 |
Yeah, when writing that rant, I looked at Triad and Nostalgia cracks for reference, and the final scanning routine ended up resembling the Nostalgia scanner the most. |
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Mekong
Registered: Mar 2013
Posts: 6 |
I said *publicly* available. I'm not even starting on the idea of exclusive tools that's been frustrating me for years. Competition in cracking is about providing the most optimized version of the game not showing one's coding skills (which IFFL system, being apparently not that hard to make, shouldn't really indicate), also there's a bunch of good reasons most people don't keep chickens in their gardens although they like eggs for their breakfast.
Anyway, it looks like some of Taboo's excellent tools are still missing from the DB and for the sake of history, and comparing results of one's own not-that-hard-to-code tool to others, would make sense to fix it. |
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The Gothicman
Account closed
Registered: Aug 2011
Posts: 40 |
"...most people don't keep chickens in their gardens although they like eggs for their breakfast..."
Haha... Cool comparative :=) |
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Cresh
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 354 |
53 "TASS V5.1B" PRG
23 "IFFL.LOAD" PRG
6 "IFFL.SCAN" PRG
14 "FIRQ.LOAD" PRG
14 "FIRQ.NEWPREP" PRG
11 "DEPACK MEM-MEM" PRG
7 "INTERLEAVE-COPY" PRG
27 "LEVEL-CRUSHER V1" PRG
25 "IFFL LINKER V1.0" PRG
8 "IRQ/NMI INSTALL." PRG
8 "INT6 INSTALLER" PRG
I think I have it. Will do the upload later on.
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1031 |
Quoting Mekong/Atheist... Competition in cracking is about providing the most optimized version of the game not showing one's coding skills ...
bullshit, being able to write and use your own tools was a huge part in cracking. |
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Danzig
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 428 |
Quote: Quoting Mekong/Atheist... Competition in cracking is about providing the most optimized version of the game not showing one's coding skills ...
bullshit, being able to write and use your own tools was a huge part in cracking.
@Burglar: What do you expect from somebody releasing a Genesis Project Intro Collection? :P |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11108 |
"Competition in cracking is about providing the most optimized version of the game not showing one's coding skills"
wat?
its all about coding the best packer and tape-to-disk transfer tools mate. |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 616 |
Yes, it's about coding your own tools, you can't do that if you don't understand the disk and tape loaders. And IFFL is part of that optimizing process too, but that's only MAIL scene type releases. Firstie scene was all about speed, so fastest crunchers and what not... how fast your cruncher was the difference between a 1st release and not sometimes.
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 501 |
IFFL Level-linker V1.0
Courtesy of monssieur Cresh :)
Enjoy. |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1153 |
Cool, the sources are only for C64, while drivecode is binary-only and written to the disk by the linker if I understand right :) |
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Danzig
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 428 |
Quote: Yes, it's about coding your own tools, you can't do that if you don't understand the disk and tape loaders. And IFFL is part of that optimizing process too, but that's only MAIL scene type releases. Firstie scene was all about speed, so fastest crunchers and what not... how fast your cruncher was the difference between a 1st release and not sometimes.
*sigh* I still remember when that asshole (still don't know who he is/was/will ever be, but I remember him as an asshole ;) ) showed me a reu-enabled cruncher for the first time. Wetted my pants. And of course had no money to get my own reu :/ |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2839 |
Sounds like the scener version of some asshole revving up his sports car at an intersection. But what made him an asshole? It was not his mere owning an REU, was it? :) |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1821 |
Completely supporting Fungus' and Burg's post up there.
Just curious if anybody knows - Chromance was using two different "IFFL" systems. Syllinor's early version to some extend and one Painkiller was using (even did?). Did he do that one himself or was it some rip-off?
Back then I was surprised that next to the usual ones I was given there actually was one I didn't recognize right away :) |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1031 |
wasnt painkiller using Bacchus' iffl? |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1821 |
TBH I cannot tell. Cant remember looking a Bacchus' routine/linking and stuff.
However - IF ppl resurrect such old threads it might be about time to write an excessive comparison about these in Propa^h^h^h^h^hVandalism or so.. :) |
