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Compyx
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 631 |
Testers requested for the Gtk3VICE-win64 build
VICE-team would like to request people to test an experimental build of VICE on Windows x64 using the new Gtk3 UI. We've added quite some new stuff and fixed a lot of bugs. So we're curious how the Win64 port behaves now.
Some things we added is support for directinput and directsound, so the UI should now present the 'dx' sound driver along with the old 'wmm' driver. The joystick support should also be much better, with plugged-in controllers being recognized and listed in the joystick settings. Just remember that VICE does not yet support plug'n'play, so plug in that controller before starting VICE.
The file is here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/vice-emu/files/experimental%20..
It was built with debugging enabled, meaning it might be a little slower than a stripped build, and it outputs a lot of stuff on the terminal which might be useful for us to track down bugs.
Bugs can be reported here: https://sourceforge.net/p/vice-emu/bugs/
Or you could just bitch here :) |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 549 |
I had a play with this earlier and have to say it’s very, very nice. Fantastic to see all the settings rolled into one nice window :-)
Personally I don’t like that Alt-M now does the mouse-capture switch... that and Alt-W are the most frequent shortcuts I use so it’s going to take me a while to get used to (Alt-H now replaces Alt-M).
It does seem like a much improved build though - two thumbs up from me :-) |
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Compyx
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 631 |
Thanks.
The swapping of some hotkeys is because I based them on the old Linux-Gtk2 port, which was what I've always used. Keeps the UI consistent, though might cause a few surprises for Windows or OSX users.
Customized hotkeys (like in the SDL port) is something we have planned but is very low on the TODO list. |
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Menace
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 75 |
First of all, it's a welcome facelift, so good work! :)
It might not be a bug, but there are a few files it seemingly does not find, based on the debug output. I "installed" the file you provided by simply unpacking it all into a directory, and running from there. This is under Windows 10 with all the latest updates installed. I see these in the log - perhaps they need to be packaged, and it was forgotten at some point;
(x64.exe:12144): Gtk-WARNING **: 08:00:21.249: Could not find the icon 'missing-image-ltr'. The 'hicolor' theme
was not found either, perhaps you need to install it.
You can get a copy from:
http://icon-theme.freedesktop.org/releases
(x64.exe:12144): Pango-WARNING **: 08:00:21.257: couldn't load font "CBM Not-Rotated 10", falling back to "Sans Not-Rotated 10", expect ugly output. |
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Scan
Registered: Dec 2015
Posts: 110 |
It looks very neat, I like the settings interface, even though I felt a bit puzzled at first where I could select the VIC II chip and SID chip. Also, at first I overlooked the autoload button and was wondering why Alt-A didn't work as expected. I will get used to this soon enough, so no problems with that.
Only thing I noticed which is not there (and this might simply haven't been implemented yet or is a deliberate choice no to implement it) is the option to use Dolphin Dos using a virtual parallel cable. |
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Compyx
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 631 |
Quoting MenaceFirst of all, it's a welcome facelift, so good work! :)
It might not be a bug, but there are a few files it seemingly does not find, based on the debug output. I "installed" the file you provided by simply unpacking it all into a directory, and running from there. This is under Windows 10 with all the latest updates installed. I see these in the log - perhaps they need to be packaged, and it was forgotten at some point;
(x64.exe:12144): Gtk-WARNING **: 08:00:21.249: Could not find the icon 'missing-image-ltr'. The 'hicolor' theme
was not found either, perhaps you need to install it.
You can get a copy from:
http://icon-theme.freedesktop.org/releases
Hmmm, haven't seen that warning before, I'll check our build script.
Quote:(x64.exe:12144): Pango-WARNING **: 08:00:21.257: couldn't load font "CBM Not-Rotated 10", falling back to "Sans Not-Rotated 10", expect ugly output.
We're still working on using a custom font without installing it, but that currently only works on Linux.
Right now, the CBM font needs to be installed manually. And I just noticed the font isn't in the zip file :) Will have to work on that.
You could download the VICE 3.2 source tarball and extract "CBM.ttf" from data/fonts/ and then double click the font file, that should install it. The old WinVICE zips also have the font in the fonts/ dir.
Thanks for testing. |
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Grue
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 145 |
Switching to fullscreen works ok, but getting back with alt+d is somehow borked or very, very slow.
Also I hate that vice seems to be only emulator with horrible screen update, scrollers are super jerky compared to almost any emulator around. I have heard its ok with linux but this windows port is absolutely horrendous.
Have you heard about freesync/gsync to get smooth scrolling on modern hardware? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
"Have you heard about freesync/gsync to get smooth scrolling on modern hardware?"
one day, when someone actually steps up to help with the windows port, you might want to remind him about it. (it wont help unless a bunch of other things have been fixed though.) |
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oziphantom
Registered: Oct 2014
Posts: 478 |
Quote: Switching to fullscreen works ok, but getting back with alt+d is somehow borked or very, very slow.
Also I hate that vice seems to be only emulator with horrible screen update, scrollers are super jerky compared to almost any emulator around. I have heard its ok with linux but this windows port is absolutely horrendous.
Have you heard about freesync/gsync to get smooth scrolling on modern hardware?
The "old" WinVICE should support freesync/gsync etc as it uses DirectX and you can enable it in settings. Not done it my self but people on lemon reported it working. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
indeed, you dont need explicit support for it. it will only work on specific setups too. however, unless someone steps up to become the windows maintainer, not much will happen. |
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oziphantom
Registered: Oct 2014
Posts: 478 |
can it even be built on Windows? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
sure |
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oziphantom
Registered: Oct 2014
Posts: 478 |
no that is sullying windows with msys2 and leading yourself to a world of pain. I mean can it be built on windows windows, not here is a hack of linux that will corrupt everything in windows so you can build something that is linuxy. VS studio sln windows, so you have a debugger, edit and continue and a decent code editor. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 549 |
I think that's what Groepaz is saying, though, for a working Windows build to be maintained in the ideal way, it needs someone to step up, do the initial work and take ownership of that?
I'm interested in this myself - but am not convinced that I'd have the time to do it... |
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oziphantom
Registered: Oct 2014
Posts: 478 |
the previous version needed linux only tools, yacc/bison and whatever ones uses to make texi files. They did put precompiled versions into svn for a long time so once could built it mostly on windows. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
wow. good nonsense there.
but yeah, if that is too much effort for you, then no dice for you.
Quote:I think that's what Groepaz is saying, though, for a working Windows build to be maintained in the ideal way, it needs someone to step up, do the initial work and take ownership of that?
no. we _had_ all that msvc jizz in the source before.
>10 years of us going through the pain of maintaining a completely seperate build process for windows msvc didnt help either for that matter. it turned out noone was using it anyway, hence it was removed (saving us a lot of maintainance) just like the win32 UI that noone was willing to fix.
it does take someone who actually knows what he is doing, who is willing to put significant work into it, and whose primary concern isnt that he has to install a couple development tools and that he maybe cant do clickediclickedi in msvc. those are mostly good signs that he most likely wouldnt be able to help anyway :) (and you _can_ actually set up msvc to use gcc for compilation, btw) |
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oziphantom
Registered: Oct 2014
Posts: 478 |
its not effort, its just really screws up your windows. I've used msys a lot before, it was needed for Playstation development, lots of battle scars from it.
Its not a matter of hitting build, that is easy enough to do from a command line, its debugging that is the main issue. Most of the work of "maintaining" is debugging something on windows, that is where having VS and PDB makes a massive difference. If not debugging integrating some Windows specific SDK to do 'a thing' to which VS really helps again.
The MSVC build of VICE was used ;)it a pity that one is stuck on such an ancient version. Now I have to modify a modern version on a linux VM, pump through into it with remote montior and debug at a snails pace. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
Quote:its not effort, its just really screws up your windows.
more good nonsense \o/
(ps1 stuff used cygwin, not msys, btw)
cant debug your gcc builds? well - chances are your debugger of choice just sucks. (or your google skills for that matter, its all possible in VS) |
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oziphantom
Registered: Oct 2014
Posts: 478 |
You can install plugins and I think the new linux workflow gives you remote GDB access. But I've not found anything that allows the VS Debugger to read DWARF data/nor to get MSYS gcc to export PDB, if you have a link for do tell. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
it took me about 5 seconds to find 2 different solutions with google. i am sure you can do it too. |
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oziphantom
Registered: Oct 2014
Posts: 478 |
I can find plenty of GDB(VisualGDB, WinGDB et al) based solutions but nothing that is VSDebugger based, so I will just have to accept that your google foo skills are greater than mine. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
whats wrong with visualgdb anyway? too much effort? |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1987 |
Quote: it took me about 5 seconds to find 2 different solutions with google. i am sure you can do it too.
Google for ”gcc generate pdb”. First hit. First solition:
https://github.com/rainers/cv2pdb |
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oziphantom
Registered: Oct 2014
Posts: 478 |
the issue with VisualGDB its is using GDB, I've never liked GDB and have found it to require about as much energy to find and get the info I need to debug as it does to actually debug the bug it self. When using it I now normally put a printf on a line and then put a break point on the printf, so I can see if the breakpoint didn't fire, if it is actually because it didn't fire, or just GDB didn't install the breakpoint properly. If Apple would allow us to use GDB over their LDB however that would be a nice solid step in a good direction. I also rather GDB than CodeWarrior.
I searched for DWARF to PDB, Msys, Cygwin and MinGW but not GCC to PDB as that doesn't really make sense but fair.. seems in the comment people have got it to work in a live sense mostly with VS rather than on dumps in WinDB. |
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Menace
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 75 |
This is just bitching really, but as mentioned in post #2 I also find it really jarring that all my hotkeys have now moved, and sometimes to two-qualifier buttons where it was previously one.
Under Windows, I've used alt-a (detach all disk drives, now ... does not have a hotkey at all!?), alt-c to take a screenshot (alt-c now is attach a cartridge, while taking a screenshot is shift-alt-r now), invoking the monitor (previosuly alt-m, now alt-h) and alt-pause (is now alt-p) a lot, and probably a few others who have now moved as well - but those are the ones that stood out to me. While I understand that full customization of the keymap is a bigger issue to tackle, I would appreciate a "old Windows keymap" or similar.
I'm also not a fan of the emulation just continuing to run while I interact with the menus, while previosuly if I wanted to take a screenhsot, it would halt until the thing I was doing was done. Is there a setting for this that I've overlooked, or is this just the new behaviour? |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 549 |
Yep, Alt-M changing to Alt-H is the one I'm struggling to get used to ... M for Monitor made sense - and it's glued in my head now.
I love this new build in every other way though, it's a huge improvement. I kinda need a release build of it for when I'm in development mode, of course, as the startup is just too slow for iterative development with the debug build ... so I hope it's released properly sometime soon :-) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
those hotkeys may become configurable at some point (probably not in the near future though). besides that they are exactly the same as they were before for me and the other devs (on linux), so chances we change them to what they were on windows (which none of us use) are kinda slim, sorry :) |
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Perplex
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 254 |
Quoting RaistlinI kinda need a release build of it for when I'm in development mode, of course, as the startup is just too slow for iterative development with the debug build
Does this Windows build support remote monitor? If you combine that with a kernal patched to bypass RAM check on reset, you're all set for *instant* code reload into an already running emulator. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
remote monitor should work, yes |
