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Forums > Requests > PDS (Programmers Development System) software
2010-03-26 09:22
Morpheus

Registered: Feb 2004
Posts: 144
PDS (Programmers Development System) software

Hello guys!

Does anyone have a working copy of the ancient PDS (Programmers Development System) software to share?
 
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2010-03-26 15:11
Groepaz
Account closed

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 9100
mmmh good question, the sources look like regular (dos) textfiles, plus some extra stuff. probably some kind of konverter could be written for that *shrug*
2010-03-26 15:31
hollowman

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 471
Looks like Sailor and Iopop has some experience with pds stuff: http://gtw64.retro-net.de/Pages/t/Review_Tygertyger.php
2010-03-26 15:40
Groepaz
Account closed

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 9100
simply "extracting" the source (as they call it in that gtw article) is pretty trivial infact.... open the file in a texteditor, remove the junk at the beginning and the bottom, done :) not sure what kind of info is stored there and what you will use, might be (unneeded) symbol info etc
2010-03-28 01:02
Twoflower

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 424
Iopop and Sailor are the guys to contact in this case. If I remember correctly, Tyger Tyger isn't the only source they have converted from PDS into something which current cross-assemblers can handle.
2010-03-28 02:46
Moloch

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2015
I'm aware who is currently looking and he has figured out a way to find the c64 transfer end ... it's actually in his old projects. It's about 150 bytes and will rip it out with a monitor.

Crimson Twilight Dev Updates [C64 CRPG]
2010-03-28 11:26
sailor

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 68
Hello,

I have the PDS software for both PC and C64.. Unfortunately without its hardware its useless (custom ISA card communicating with the c64). IIRC The package includes xasm for Z80, Amstrad CPC..

The PC-software itself requires an old DOS version and an old processorfamily. (PC XT?). I think i got the software running but it went out searching for the ISA card so it was not of much help.

These are just vague memories, i might be wrong, i might have missed something.. I also have seen different variations of PDS sources(with and without the junk in the beginning), perhaps there are different hardware requirements too.

anyhow.. To get a program running, I'd recommend you to convert it (as already said). Some (personal) best practice notes on the way:

* Remove the "junk bytes" in the beginning.
* You need to merge the 6-7 files somehow (copy/include).
* You need translate the sources(syntaxes etc).
* DASM has worked best so far, some other xasms have failed to build big sources.


I also found a (more or less) PDS-compatible compiler for modern PC;s. It managed to compile some smaller sources, but it failed on the larger ones.

If someone could make a CSDB entry for "PDS software" or something alike, i'd gladly upload the software.

It might sound easier than it is though, but it all depends on what you got in your hands.

Tyger Tyger for example did not run at all, we had to guess what was missing and where, and what the output of the PDS sources was meant to be.

The Bubbler, on the other hand, was complete but hard to translate due to the complexity of the sources. Luckily Matt Young (the original programmer) was involved. He knew both PDS(syntaxes) and 6502-asm.

I think some other stuff in PDS-format has surfaced from the Onslaught factory lately, there might be some useful information as well.

Regards
Jani

2010-03-28 12:00
Groepaz
Account closed

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 9100
Quote:
I have the PDS software for both PC and C64..

yes, same here. i have als loose contact to someone (who might want to speak up here or not) who has a working pds setup. (i could forward the one or other question if needed)

Quote:
Unfortunately without its hardware its useless (custom ISA card communicating with the c64).

the card actually isnt all that "custom" - it is a simple EPP printer port :) DATEL sold the same card much later as "commslink" for use with their psx action replay. the software itself should even work when patched to use the i/o adresses for a regular pc printer port.

unfortunately, the software doesnt even start up when it does not detect the pds card, so its not very useful to have at all unless you have the hardware.

Quote:
IIRC The package includes xasm for Z80, Amstrad CPC..

i havent seen those, mail into my direction please =)

Quote:
The PC-software itself requires an old DOS version and an old processorfamily. (PC XT?).

although most actual setups were XTs back then, i doubt it is required

Quote:
I think i got the software running but it went out searching for the ISA card so it was not of much help.

yeah like i said... same here :)

one thing that comes to mind would be hacking "dosbox" - it should be relativly easy infact, find out where the software expects the pds card registers, and then map a regular epp port there. even transfers to the c64 could work then :)
2010-03-28 13:56
sailor

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 68
Quoting Groepaz

the card actually isnt all that "custom" - it is a simple EPP printer port :) DATEL sold the same card much later as "commslink" for use with their psx action replay. the software itself should even work when patched to use the i/o adresses for a regular pc printer port.

Aha. That i didn't know (never seen the real setup), would be cool to get it running though :).. Well, it shouldn't be _that_ hard to reverse it, really.

Quoting Groepaz

one thing that comes to mind would be hacking "dosbox" - it should be relativly easy infact, find out where the software expects the pds card registers, and then map a regular epp port there. even transfers to the c64 could work then :)

Interesting idea :)


@Groepaz: You got mail with all the PDS stuff i have, perhaps you can find it a 24/7 home so its available to everyone ?

Regards
Jani

2010-03-28 13:58
Ninja

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 390
Huh, am I missing something? So many experienced people here and all not being able to get an old DOS program beyond some register checks? (I hope it is a lack of time/interest ;))

EDIT: Wine should also print every port access it can't handle IIRC.
2010-03-28 14:04
Groepaz
Account closed

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 9100
hehe indeed, it should be easy.... if i recally correctly i actually managed to get it past the check once when running it in a debugger.

@sailor: your pack looks great, much more complete than what i had
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