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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
The voting system is completely retarded
I just can't wrap my head around this unmitigated, pure crap we use for voting. Here's a situation where I actually have to vote waaaay lower than it deserves, in order to increase a release's rating.
This is simply ridiculous.
"Hey, this release is really cool, I'll give it a tenner."
"WTF, the rating got lower?!? Ok, maybe it counts as an illicit upvote and it is filtered with some clever algorythm, let's go with 9 then."
"Damn, now it's way lower than it would be without my vote. Maybe an 8 will help?"
"Nah, this is getting worse, but let's see what happens if I vote with a 7."
"Shit, still no good, I'll jump to an ever lower number just for the sake of experiencing more of this shit."
"Oh great, now we're getting somewhere, one more try."
"YEY! I love this release, so it will get a 6 from me." |
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GH
Registered: Sep 2014
Posts: 77 |
Exactly, but make all votes public :D |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3047 |
As far as downvoting is concerned. I don't exposing all voters will miraculously make all downvotes disappear. And knowing, who downvoted doesn't make it much better (as mod I can see all votes). I have special place for my downvoters at the tip of my middlefinger but that's all I can do about it in cases when I don't even know who they are and where the hell they came from with their attitude. |
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Mr.Ammo
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 228 |
Quoting GH/MSL/ToondichtersExactly, but make all votes public :D
All votes are already public. But the voters remain anonymous, like it should be. You seem to lean towards tyranny. |
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2924 |
Linus posted this in the $11 music compo thread, just as fitting here ...
Quote:I vote anonymously because I just don't need even more drama in my life and I don't feel like having to discuss or even defend my taste. I can openly say I DO vote for my groups and groupmates, too, why wouldn't I?
As a staffer here I get to see all of the issues with CSDb and one of those issues, for some people, is the anon voting. It usually starts with a PM which reads along the lines of "Can you tell me who the asshole is that downvoted me on such and such release?" When I look at the mentioned vote, not to inform on the anon voter, but to simply see if someone is being an asshole ... routinely the vote in question is a 6. In what twisted world is a vote of 6 out of 10 a downvote?
Even tho the majority of us are 35+ years old there is still that little teenager hidden away with lots of people. Simply saying "Grow up" isn't going to change the fact that if the votes went public there would be a shitstorm of problems here and I'm betting the staff would have to ban at least 10-15 people. |
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GH
Registered: Sep 2014
Posts: 77 |
Last thing we want is a shitload of problems for the moderators...
Did people mention enough already you're doing a great job?
@Mr Ammo: "Tyranny" because of some C-64 release at the age of 40+? I don't think so :D |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 243 |
"1. Not allowing to comment on a release unless a vote is submitted (just like on Pouet), this would encourage voting."
this! |
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Rastah Bar
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2012
Posts: 336 |
Quote: I just can't wrap my head around this unmitigated, pure crap we use for voting. Here's a situation where I actually have to vote waaaay lower than it deserves, in order to increase a release's rating.
This is simply ridiculous.
"Hey, this release is really cool, I'll give it a tenner."
"WTF, the rating got lower?!? Ok, maybe it counts as an illicit upvote and it is filtered with some clever algorythm, let's go with 9 then."
"Damn, now it's way lower than it would be without my vote. Maybe an 8 will help?"
"Nah, this is getting worse, but let's see what happens if I vote with a 7."
"Shit, still no good, I'll jump to an ever lower number just for the sake of experiencing more of this shit."
"Oh great, now we're getting somewhere, one more try."
"YEY! I love this release, so it will get a 6 from me."
My guess of what is happening: a reference average vote and a spread around the mean are calculated. Perhaps the median and standard deviation. The final average vote is a weighted average of all votes where the votes are progressively downweighted according to their distance from the reference average, where the "distance" is normalized by the spread.
This means that if you vote low, the spread increases and some of the high votes will get more weight. Resulting in an increase in the final weighted average vote. But if you look at what happens when the vote becomes lower and lower, at some point the weights of the highest votes have maxed out, and the decrease in weight of the low vote does not compensate for its actual lower value and then the final weighted average vote can go down again. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Sooo... Magic? Got it :) |
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ilesj
Registered: Jun 2012
Posts: 27 |
Mr. Ammo and Moloch raise a good point. The average rating calculation may be faulty, but so is peoples' voting habits. Any new release gets votes only in the 8-10 range routinely, with the few random "downvotes", unless it's somehow a crappy release. Anything below 8 is considered a downvote, apparently.
How well a release is received can in practice be judged by the number of nines and tens it receives, not by the (weighted) average rating.
I see biggest problem with compos held on CSDb with CSDb voting. In a compo voting I would like to use the full 1-10 scale to differentiate the entries from each other. But CSDb voting puts me off, because giving anything below 8 is "being an asshole". |
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DKT
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 99 |
What ilesj said.
And... Compos should not use CSDB voting system, because we can't compare vote value 10 for new release with vote value 10 for Crest Avantgarde or Dawnfall, a classic productions. It's better to provide external simple vote-sheet and then full range of votes will be used by people (like on parties).
Beside this, people don't have time to vote (to provide good result with efficient number of votes) so who cares... |
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