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AKA :
Black Bleeder
Credits :
Download :
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Pokefinder.org
User Comment
Submitted by chatGPZ on 29 August 2020
| This is actually *not* readable on a real C64 with modulator replacement ("spider mod") :) |
User Comment
Submitted by ptoing on 29 August 2020
| This is actually readable on micro64. |
User Comment
Submitted by Mr. SID on 12 August 2014
| FWIW, this is completely unreadable on a real C64 when using a Sony PVM CRT. The screen is just too good... :-P |
User Comment
Submitted by TomoAlien on 9 October 2012
Lookie what I did, A PROPER SCREENCAP!
Whatcha gonna do about it? :P |
User Comment
Submitted by Karoshier on 18 April 2012
I managed to view this somewhat clearly with Vice 2.3 on my 60Hz laptop screen. The main text is difficult to read but it's there. The small text on the sides is better readable.
I required the following tweaking:
* Settings -> Video -> DirectX -> Render to DX primary surface = on
* Options -> Maximum speed -> Custom = 117
* and of course CRT emulation = on
I'm suddenly feeling the need to have a real C64 here with me. Too bad I don't (yet)... |
User Comment
Submitted by chatGPZ on 19 August 2010
| just for the records, it's not called "PAL emulation" anymore :o) |
User Comment
Submitted by DeeKay on 21 April 2010
gpz: D'oh, Mr. nitpick is at it again! ;-)
I know it's not restricted to PAL, since all transistors used back then are made in the same way, but Graham's technique emulating a more faithful c64-picture *is* simply called "PAL emulation" last time i checked... |
User Comment
Submitted by WiDDY on 27 January 2010
User Comment
Submitted by chatGPZ on 27 January 2010
"this is more of a monitor-trick than a VIC magic. even emulating the c64 video generator perfectly wont improve it to display a more legible image than for example Vice,you have to add a layer of filters simulating the monitor effects."
actually two things:
a) deekay: this effect is totally unrelated to PAL :) it happens on NTSC as well, and it would (if emulated) happen even without PAL emulation :)
b) it is infact a VIC "effect" and not an artefact of the decoding in the monitor. rising edges of the luma signal are considerably slower than falling edges (a sideeffect of how the nmos output stages work), which pretty much directly results in the behaviour observed and demonstrated here :) hopefully i wont forget to make some screendumps of the logic analyzer next time i am at jens' place ... :)
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User Comment
Submitted by TSM on 27 August 2009
| Perfectly readable with VICE on a Samsung SyncMaster 753DF CRT monitor (PAL emulation disabled). Also tried it on the C64 connected to a TV set via S-Video and it was slightly harder to read, especially at the center. |
User Comment
Submitted by chatGPZ on 14 August 2009
| yep indeed, and generally having this effect emulated will lead to much more faithful reproduction of hires images. |
User Comment
Submitted by DeeKay on 14 August 2009
| Ptoing: You still don't get it. It's not about making use of a useful phenomenon (such as e.g. the PAL colorblending of horizontal lines to generate new solid colors), it's about AVOIDING it like the plague, through means of better emulation and using different dithering when making your pictures! |
User Comment
Submitted by ptoing on 11 August 2009
| Correct emulation aside, if anyone can make use of this phenomenon without killing retina (and that from you, Deekay) I will be impressed. If not, then meh! |
User Comment
Submitted by Ed on 8 August 2009
| Another reason to stick with proper hardware. |
User Comment
Submitted by Paul Bearer on 8 August 2009
| I just had to try it again, when I turn brightness down and contrast up, the text in the middle is easily readable (C64C PAL + 1084S). And once you know it's there, it is always easily visible. :) |
User Comment
Submitted by Tom-Cat on 7 August 2009
User Comment
Submitted by McMeatLoaf on 7 August 2009
"PAL-Emulation my ass!"
Haha!
BTW, this is (barely) readable on my TFT-screen, in WinVICE 2.1, with PAL emu on. |
User Comment
Submitted by Mr. SID on 7 August 2009
User Comment
Submitted by Oswald on 7 August 2009
| cool, now we know what modern monitor to buy, thx DK :) |
User Comment
Submitted by DeeKay on 7 August 2009
| Stein: Hm. Technically that is quite impossible, you're the first and only person that ever saw the effect on a TFT with VICE... Beats me what it is about your setup that is so different! |
User Comment
Submitted by Stone on 7 August 2009
User Comment
Submitted by DeeKay on 7 August 2009
| Stein: You have a CRT, right? 8) |
User Comment
Submitted by Stone on 7 August 2009
| I could read everything, including the stuff in the middle with VICE Pal emulation enabled. Am I missing some point here? (The effect is cool though) |
User Comment
Submitted by assiduous on 7 August 2009
| this is more of a monitor-trick than a VIC magic. even emulating the c64 video generator perfectly wont improve it to display a more legible image than for example Vice,you have to add a layer of filters simulating the monitor effects. the combined picture isnt completely black,increase the brightness. and theres really NO valid reason to use composite video in 2009 when you know that s-video is sweet :) |
User Comment
Submitted by DeeKay on 7 August 2009
Sid: "Usefulness" is not the issue here, this is not some VIC-trick, but a behaviour of the real machine that needs to be emulated correctly in order to provide the most accurate video emulation - think of it as Alankilas Filter distortion, only for VIC! ;-)
If this is not emulated, you end up with a picture where black is way too dominant on the real machine if you made your picture in VICE. Like it happened countless times to me when i worked on the CSS gfx! ;-)
Assiduous: The effect is better visible with composite, but it also worked on all the systems with Y/C that i tried, although less prominent. Why is the combined picture completely black? |
User Comment
Submitted by Mr. SID on 7 August 2009
C64G with 8.4" TFT using s-video:
The stuff on the sides is clearly readable, the middle is visible, but not readable.
Probably one of the last things that emulation can't reproduce yet... But not very useful, IMHO... :)
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User Comment
Submitted by enthusi on 7 August 2009
Deekay: READ the comments.
others: READ the summary :)
Can read it all more or less well on 1802 with composite. |
User Comment
Submitted by assiduous on 7 August 2009
i have. its hardly legible with out an old crt monitor. pal signal captured from a c64(looks better in motion but not much),s-video:
frame1
frame2
combined
i hope it isnt meant to be watched in the crappy composite mode,is it ? |
User Comment
Submitted by DeeKay on 7 August 2009
So... Has anyone *) actually run this on the real machine yet or am I the only one? <:-)
Give me feedback! To my knowledge, Crossbow's c128 and 1084 is the only known setup that does not show ANYTHING at all!... All the other c64s and c128s I've tried show it, some more, some less!
edit: *) Okay, anyone except for Enthusi! ;-) |
User Comment
Submitted by Richard on 7 August 2009
| Hahahahahahah. Nice one :) |
User Comment
Submitted by DeeKay on 7 August 2009
| Paul: yes, the text in the middle was "hidden" even more, by using only every second line! |
User Comment
Submitted by Paul Bearer on 7 August 2009
| I can't read the text in the middle of the screen (if there is any) even on a real PAL C64, the text around the edges is readable. |
User Comment
Submitted by Raffox|HF on 7 August 2009
| Way bUtter than Nemtheanga's. |
User Comment
Submitted by Cresh on 7 August 2009
User Comment
Submitted by enthusi on 7 August 2009
| also use composite rather than lum/chrom to read. |
User Comment
Submitted by FATFrost on 7 August 2009
| my eyes are n0w deaad.... hmpff.. |
User Comment
Submitted by iAN CooG on 6 August 2009
| CRT required (LCD sux anyway), ntsc mode preferred, vice 2.1 pal emulation active: readable. ;) |
User Comment
Submitted by Joe on 6 August 2009
Very nice bleed indeed! It kills everything. Can't tell from the real deal. I guess it does even more harm ;P
The perfect CSDb cleaner tool, I guess... |
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