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Living   [2005]

Living Released by :
Glance [web]

Release Date :
20 September 2005

Type :
C64 Demo

Released At :
7D5 Demo Party

Achievements :
Mixed Demo Competition at 7D5 Demo Party :  #1

User rating:********__  7.8/10 (25 votes)   See votestatistics
********__  7.8/10 (14 votes) - Public votes only.

Credits :
Code .... Endo of Glance
  Nightlord of Civitas, Glance
  Skate of Glance
Music .... Hydrogen of Glance
Graphics .... Arcane of Glance
  Datura of Glance
  Hydrogen of Glance
Design .... Datura of Glance
  Endo of Glance
  Hydrogen of Glance
Idea .... Wisdom of Crescent
Storyboard .... Hydrogen of Glance
Linking .... Nightlord of Civitas, Glance

SIDs used in this release :

Download :

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User Comment
Submitted by Motion on 27 December 2007
I downloaded this a very long time ago, but amazingly I left it on my drive. I really enjoyed this release. Cool animation at the beginning, nice Titles for credits. Loved the Torus, the skyline with the Astronomer was a nice touch. Loved the part with the person reading a book, too.

The soundtrack is really neat, has some nice instruments and subtle sounds later on. Thumbs up! :D

User Comment
Submitted by Nightlord on 31 May 2007
coming back to this in 2007 I am really happy to read your comment Oswald :) Thanks a lot for the nice comments

I thought the wolf clone in Void was realtime. I want to make one remark to make sure that I am not misunderstood. My earlier comment was really about the lesser precission (not the accuracy) in earlier wolf clones in Void (also in Mathematica and Oneder). I mean those routines render accurately but allow less precission in camera angles. For instance if you make a 360 degree turn in Oneder you will go through 16 or 32 positions (not sure which right now). In my wolf routine you go through 128 positions. That was what I meant by 'precission'. And yes it IS realtime and actually twice as fast as what you see in the demo. it renders 25 fps normally, but in the demo I had to load the huge next part (the torus) in IRQ loader spending half of the raster time each frame. So in the demo it renders every fourth frame

Your idea about the torus is interesting (placing prerendered rings) actualy, I did not think about that before. The torus IS realtime too. That is for every frame the input to the routine are the 3 rotation angles and everything gets calculated and rendered realtime (formation of the 3x3 rotation matrix + multiplication of the matrix with the vertices and their rendering). However the reason I can make so many dots lies in some clever replacement of 2D math with 3D math for the majority of the dots. Therefore the average number of multiplications per dot goes down dramatically.

Looking back a lot of the criticism that the demo received to some of the graphical elements were really my fault unfortunately. Our gfxmen actually had to rush a lot when we first started the demo as our initial deadline was very near. Then we did not make that deadline and the work stalled a few months because of me (the other 2 coders were mostly done with their work). Finally I got back to the demo and rushed to finish it for a new deadline not giving enough time to the graphicians to fully polish their work. All three graphicians were relieved to see the demo being finally released but they were also wishing they had more time to work on it.

Evil coders we are. We make everyone else's life miserable don't we :)
User Comment
Submitted by Oswald on 31 May 2007
hmm coming back to this in 2007, I dont see this demo THAT bad today. and nightlord is right the void wolf clone suffers of some inaccuracies but its not realtime anyway :) however IF the wolf clone is realtime in this one it must be the _best_ until date. Looking at the torus again, I must say that its most probably NOT realtime. probably it stores one dot ring in many prerendered rotated versions, and uses that to make up a whole torus, even so its neat.
User Comment
Submitted by Jak T Rip on 31 October 2006
User Comment
Submitted by peandoas on 30 October 2005
I think this demo is best demo from Turkey.
User Comment
Submitted by TDJ on 30 September 2005
Check my review @ http://thedarkcourt.blogspot.com/2005/10/living-by-glance.html
User Comment
Submitted by vigo on 26 September 2005
this is fuckin great demo... i'm proud to see it live on the compo. i'm proud to know these guyz... i'm giving my rezpekt to them... people are still doing something in the year of 2005 and i belive they need support not _lame_ reactions... thanx guyz. i hope you'll keep rocking on c64...
User Comment
Submitted by G-Fellow on 25 September 2005
I´am not a coder, and only for the fun of watching a demo, i must say that this demo
is cool. I agree, this is NOT the best demo i have ever seen, but it´s enjoyable...
User Comment
Submitted by Krill on 23 September 2005
OK demo, and I second Oswald that it's nothing outstanding at all. The effect I liked best were those small quadrangles moving in wavy patterns. The torus is OK too but lacks a lot of precision.
User Comment
Submitted by Nightlord on 22 September 2005
the raycaster is 4x4. and it really is just a loading part for the massively memory consuming torus. But it probably is the raycaster where you can make the most precise turns (2*PI/256... I think a lot more precise than the one in Void). I do not know whether that is anything positive though :) As I said it is just a loader part. But there is no tricks there it is a true raycasting engine that hopefully Alih will re-review in a product in GameOverview sometime in the future :)

User Comment
Submitted by HCL on 22 September 2005
@ALIH: There is no 2x2-doom or something. It's pure 4x4-shit :).

@Oswald: Complaining about others demos doesn't make any better demo. You can contribute to the scene by releasing your own (better) demo, and possibly by being a bit more positive ;).

This is probably the best we have seen from Turkey so far, good! It's not a state of the art demo, but it does have some cool effects. Generally it lacks some accuracy in the effects, like Oswald mentioned the plotter, but also the doom-thingy and the red bob-stuff (ants!?) at the end. I would not agree that this is *crap* though.
User Comment
Submitted by A Life in Hell on 22 September 2005
I don't actually care wether the ifli near the end of the demo was converted or not, the fact is that it _looks_ like a bad convert job, and hence it doesn't matter wether it is converted or not. When it comes to graphics, image really is everything, and while that picture has a reasonable composition, it just looks _bad_ on my monitor.

I can't make up my mind as to what I think of this demo. There is some great coderpron in there, I'm a big fan of the dot plotter, and I recognise the achievment of the chessboard with motion blur. The 2x2 raycaster/wolf3d part I'm not so sure of... I mean, it's really impressive from a pure code point of view, but somehow something seems off about the routine - it seems to my untrained eye that the routine drops too many bits in the name of speed. But it still does look better than most 4x4 dooms, so I must give it the correct dues there - I suppose, I am comparing it to edhellion's routine from Void mostly - since it's basically the area, but Y-expanded into 2x2 instead of 2x1.

The problem is that for me, for every cool part of this demo, there is one which completly puts me off it - the eyes at the start are neat, but there is no sound with them. The Living logo looks good, but the glance logo looks like something from gimp's script-fu (I realise it isn't, but that's how it looks to me). The credits part is cool, but then the wolf3d looks ugly. The dotplotter is great coderpron, but it only has one object. The ants look cool, but the chessboard waver looks ugly, even if I recognise it as good code. But after the ants, maybe I forgive, until the upscroll font offends my eyes.

I mean, respect for some great code, and some nice logos in places. But they exist in a demo which, as a whole, just screams forgettable - in part, because it feels almost unfinished - yeah, the code is there, but the graphics and the music really aren't. Perhaps loving or hating this demo is a case of whether you look at it with the eyes of a coder, or with the eyes of an artist. I want to look with the former, but the latter side of myself is too jilted by the experience to be able to remember this production in a positive light. Le sigh.
User Comment
Submitted by macx on 21 September 2005
the demo sure has nice spirit and i am looking forward to new releases from the crew. and as i am the one deciding, not oswald, the demo is good.
User Comment
Submitted by Radiant on 21 September 2005
Oswald: News for you: This isn't the late 90's, this is 2005, and this is the current state of affairs. If you don't like it, do something about it, like release a killer demo or whatever.

At least try to be constructive instead of whining about how people don't live up to your standards.
User Comment
Submitted by Nightlord on 21 September 2005
oswald dude: it is okay... really! do not let blood fill your brains. okay we, as the authors, have received your reaction to this production and will try to take it into consideration in our next demo... just chill man :)
User Comment
Submitted by Oswald on 21 September 2005
well, I really whish I could meet your gfxman, as that pic is something extraordinally horrible. Did he lied that he drew it ? hahaha. if thats true he draws worse pictures than the lamest converter on earth. Steppe: the pic is ifli, no hires. BTW, anyone noticed that the 3d core of the torus bugs ? Sometimes the whole torus gets a bit bigger/smaller...

wake up scene ! do we really lack so much good productions that we have to worship the below average ? aw men, I cant believe it. You're a hollowman scene: "I beg to differ from hollowman"

I appreciate the effort behind the demo, but if 27 ppl adds a comment that this is great/cool/etc, then my brain fills with blood. This demo is below average even by end 90's standards.
User Comment
Submitted by Madhead on 21 September 2005
i watched the demo at sponsor tv channel. congratulations! very nice demo and arcane's bitmap work was great!
User Comment
Submitted by hollowman on 21 September 2005
better get prepared for another concept demo with converted graphics then , unless that pixelling program for pc stops crashing..
User Comment
Submitted by Scout on 21 September 2005
I guess Oswald has broke up with his girlfriend. Or worse, she's pregnant =)
User Comment
Submitted by Steppe on 21 September 2005
Very nice overall, although I found the music to be a bit dull.
@Oswald: You did notice this "converted" pic is interlaced hires? Flickers heavily even on a real 64, but I don't think it's converted.
User Comment
Submitted by Skate on 21 September 2005
@oswald: Convert pic? :) I wish you could meet with our graphicians :) And please take a look at the reviews chapter at 64 Times #1 disk magazine. You'll get the point.
User Comment
Submitted by Nightlord on 20 September 2005
@oswald: this is a piece of crap with a possible (never certain) world record in it... ;)
User Comment
Submitted by Oswald on 20 September 2005
another piece of crap. A straight converted ifli pic?! ugh... the fx is average, the design is nice at the start but incoherent overall somewhere very poor.
User Comment
Submitted by Alias Medron on 20 September 2005
great demo.
nice design and the music fits.
waiting to see more from you dudes.
greets from Greece.
User Comment
Submitted by Radiant on 20 September 2005
Awesome music. A bit lacking designwise, though. Still, a couple of good effects.
User Comment
Submitted by Scout on 20 September 2005
Very nice to see this kind of stuff coming from Turkey!
The black/empty screens during the loading make the demo a bit slow.
The code is a-okay tho.
User Comment
Submitted by Trash on 20 September 2005
I beg to differ from Hollowmans opinion, great graphics, good code and overall a nice product.
User Comment
Submitted by Clarence on 20 September 2005
Good demo. And yes, nice vector-plotter!
Thumbs up!
User Comment
Submitted by Nightlord on 20 September 2005
@hcl: reading your last post was _the_ moment of my scene history :) :) :)
User Comment
Submitted by HCL on 20 September 2005
Nice demo! A bit weak on the linking, but good effects. I jumped up when i saw the plotter, my own has been lying around for 3-4 years now. Looks like exactly the same idea when i sneek into your code. Darn, maybe i can do 321 plotts then ;).
User Comment
Submitted by hollowman on 20 September 2005
very stylish intro. good music, not so good gfx, some great effects
User Comment
Submitted by Fuzz on 20 September 2005
Indeed a great demo! Loved it all! :)
User Comment
Submitted by CyberBrain on 20 September 2005
Cool demo!
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