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Violin   [2009]

Violin Released by :
Chorus, Resource [web], Singular [web]

Release Date :
20 June 2009

Type :
C64 Graphics  (Interlaced FLI)

Released At :
SceneCON 2009

Achievements :
Mixed Graphics Competition at SceneCON 2009 :  #1

User rating:*********_  9/10 (38 votes)   See votestatistics
*********_  9.3/10 (21 votes) - Public votes only.

Credits :
Graphics .... Leon of BugKiller TM, Chorus, Resource, Singular

Download :
http://csdb.dk/getinternalfile.php/76645/violin_workstages.gif (downloads: 902)
http://csdb.dk/getinternalfile.php/76644/violin.d64 (downloads: 381)

Look for downloads on external sites:
 Pokefinder.org


User Comment
Submitted by Leon on 5 August 2009
Well guys, I am not holding a grudge, never got really pissed about getting downvoted by someone. After all these years I got to a point where it no longer bugs me. I know perfectly well how much work was spent on a particular release, and TBH it feels good to see there are some people like bordeaux who realized in time how pointless attacking and bitching to me was... Expressing opinions is welcome, I used to accept negative BUT constructive criticism (see the "My Island" series). Thanks for everything, the many comments, and no worries folks, I am not angry about any negative comment.

Cheers,
Leon
User Comment
Submitted by NecroPolo on 5 August 2009
@Bordeaux: Such a move you just did requires guts. Respect for that!

\m/,
User Comment
Submitted by Leon on 5 August 2009
Bordeaux: thank you!
User Comment
Submitted by DRAX on 5 August 2009
Respect for that apology!
User Comment
Submitted by Tim on 5 August 2009
Leon,

Just changed my vote back to an 8/10 instead of the 1/10 I had previously voted.
Because I never delete previously posted messages from CSDB, I hereby openly apologize for moaning on this being lame xferring.. the more I think about it, read other people’s opinions and realize the work you put into this (and other pics), the more I feel like an idiot.. and convinced I was wrong, so sorry for that!
User Comment
Submitted by NecroPolo on 18 July 2009
Wow what a nice throwing crap pro-con licitaton. You can really be proud of yourselves, kiddos :) Pretty amusing "discussion" :D

Converting a real pic is somewhat like painting some beautiful scenery or real people on canvas - or making a SID cover of a tune. Isn't that?

Would painting real things be lame? Is that so? Okay, then Leonardo, you SUCK, way beyond repair. :D

Would making tune covers be lame? Really...? Okay, then Hubbard, Daglish, Jeroen, Reyn (and all the guys I've been inspired to make music), suck way beyond imagination, too! :D

C'mon guys. This picture is fuckin' spectacular. Number one MIXED compo winner, for a reason. It is like winning a rally race with a stock Fiat Seicento against Subaru Imprezas, Mitsubishi Lancers and the like :)

Besides being an accurate pixel interpretation, it oozes the fingerprint of the artist who created the work.

Supermassive ten.
(not if scores had any value, haha)
User Comment
Submitted by Hein on 26 June 2009
Without looking at the original, the violin here looks a bit too rough to be a fine and delicate instrument; the strings, the edges, the bridge. It sits between an intuitive expressive interpretation and a logical academic approach. Wish it'd be more on the black or the white side.
User Comment
Submitted by Groepaz on 26 June 2009
somehow i feel like i should remind you guys of the rules and point you at the forum =P
User Comment
Submitted by Jailbird on 26 June 2009
@AmN: for some reason there is a comma in the filename. Try to load it with LOAD"*",8
User Comment
Submitted by Mäestro AmN on 26 June 2009
/OFF

Err... Nice and long conversation my friends, but i would like to point at the uploaded .d64 isn't working. Or maybe only my fuzzy brain plays dirty tricks with me on this late hour?

;)

/ON
User Comment
Submitted by Deev on 26 June 2009
Pal, I know I've had a similar discussion with you about one of my own pictures, but I think it's all about pure experience. I've been making graphics in these 16 colours for over 20 years now, I expect other C64 graphicians will have been pixelling for similar lengths of time. After a while it just becomes instinct, I can see something and I know which colours I'm going to use to portray it on the C64. Maybe I'll try and make a video sometime!
User Comment
Submitted by Jailbird on 26 June 2009
Quoting PAL
Man I just pasted leons image over the original and that is so close thet it can be just a converted image
I assume that the close similarity is only due to the traced outline (on an additional layer), in order to avoid mistakes on dimension-relations. Losely guessing here, but I think that most of us graphicians traced over an outline over an image at least once in our lifetime. But I've seen Leon pixelling with my own eyes and I can assure you that he does everything by hand :)
User Comment
Submitted by PAL on 26 June 2009
ohhhh.... please stop this now. The point is if an artist show an image and pretends it to be his own composition or creation and just hoping for no-one to ever find the original! This is the only true issue here... the hide and seek... Man I just pasted leons image over the original and that is so close thet it can be just a converted image, on the otherhand it looks real alot better than what a stright convertion does so I guess he pixeled it then. The point is that no one send credit to the original artist anymore... I guess no-one did in the past also... I think the discussions start more often on fli or ifli or afli and so on or what the new formats are called becuse we as humans do not see how they the artists would compute the pixel per pixel in their heads... it is insane to to that... I am a multicolor koala artist myself, and to do shades like leone here has done is impossible for me to figure out how his mind would do that or how I could do that... For me it is as this simple... I do not understand how one could pixel something like that on the same lines and shades as the original... in those modes... I just say if this is the case that someone can do this in his mind it is beyond my limited human mind. The reason for saing something like this is that I see no logic in color and pixel setting on some of the better images like these... It is unbeleivable this... I can not understand the logic here... and if there is no logic there it would be impossible to do that over and over again in my mind... but these super artists do it, and I just have to obey and say... well done if you did that task that I can not understand you were able to compute in your head!
User Comment
Submitted by Jailbird on 26 June 2009
Quoting DeeKay
So lemme get this straight: You're saying if someone spends TWO YEARS learning how to set pixels right on c64, he doesn't at all deserve to be a "well-respected GFXian in the c64 scene"?? You're not being serious now, right?
I'd definitely respect the effort of two years of copying, but the rest of my opinion would be 'that's cool, but meh'. But that was just an obviously fictitious conception anyway, I was playing with the idea, you shouldn't take it word-by-word.

Quoting DeeKay
If you actually believe that Celine Dion was born with her current singing abilities and that she did not have any training, I'd have a nice bridge I could sell you! 8)
I'm not too familiar with Celion Dion's life but if you say so, I believe you. :) But then just replace her name with whoever was born with a talent and the point stays the same. You need the vein and the aptitude to do much more than stale copying. Electric, Sander, Ptoing & Co. FTW.

Quoting DeeKay
IAnyone can do it, yes. But most fail in doing so, and being a gfxian I *know* you can tell the good from the bad! Only very few people achieve a quality in hand-tracing of the level of Valsary, Hein - or Leon!...
Agreed. But a lot of them do not even try. The artists you mentioned probably had the necessary patience mixed with ambitions, love towards pixelling, striving to show off beautiful stuff, and these aspirants helped them to reach for new levels. While staying strictly on a theoretical path, I still think that a good part of that knowledge copying is based on, is achievable simply by practice.

Quoting DeeKay
Although it should be taking into consideration how much effort you spend on retouching. Believe me: you can easily spend more hours retouching than the original artist spent on making the picture. Believe me: I *do* know what I'm talking about! <:-))) And no, I didn't sign it with my name, hehe...
Same here, I know how it goes, it's a bitch sometimes :) Still, I'd never sank so low to sign a retouched picture. That could be easily compared to renovate a painting and sing my name under it after I finished with the restoration ;) People wouldn't be too happy with that.

Btw. remember the C64 related "No-Copy?" page about 10 years ago? We had the same exact discussion about this topic. Ten friggin years ago.
The only difference that I was defending copying then, and on similar principles like you do it now :)
User Comment
Submitted by DeeKay on 25 June 2009
"Yep, and that's why I think it's easily achievable to reach an above average level quite fastly (and by fast, I mean a year or two, not two weeks) with a lot of routine, even faster if there's someone who will show you all the tips&tricks. I'd even bet on this. IMHO, replicating to C64 (especially to theoretically limitless IFLI) is simple craftmanship."

So lemme get this straight: You're saying if someone spends TWO YEARS learning how to set pixels right on c64, he doesn't at all deserve to be a "well-respected GFXian in the c64 scene"?? You're not being serious now, right?

"Singing like Celine Dion needs congenital abilities."

If you actually believe that Celine Dion was born with her current singing abilities and that she did not have any training, I'd have a nice bridge I could sell you! 8)

"You definitely don't need to be a born graphics artist to fill up a screen with dithering over a traced outline."

Anyone can do it, yes. But most fail in doing so, and being a gfxian I *know* you can tell the good from the bad! Only very few people achieve a quality in hand-tracing of the level of Valsary, Hein - or Leon!...

"You'll most likely be able to achieve that by practicing a lot as long as you are interested in pixelling and learn the usage of different techniques. But to do something extraordinary and/or original - now that's when talent comes into picture and come up with stuff on the standards of Electric."

Electric = God. There's no argument at all about that. But there can only be one God, so should all the other wanna-be-deities just call it quits? ;-)
Btw: Even Electric has pixelbugs in his pics! ;-)

"And by "converted" in this case, I meant PC wiring -> C64 retouch -> tagging."

Agreed. That *is* rather lame! ;-) Although it should be taking into consideration how much effort you spend on retouching. Believe me: you can easily spend more hours retouching than the original artist spent on making the picture. Believe me: I *do* know what I'm talking about! <:-))) And no, I didn't sign it with my name, hehe...

"Do moral standards evolve? What was OK in the past, might be not so cool today. F.e. beating up a wife? :D OK, sorry, this was far off :)"

Ouch, that comparision hurts! <:-) "moral standards" change much quicker in the PC scene, where these days many people actually *deny* that the demoscene has its roots in the cracking scene even! I guess it just reflects their rapidly changing platform!.. If their set of values actually an *evolution* (as in: improvement) is certainly a matter of debate (f.ex. this whole artsyfartsy business gets on my nerves, just like the lack of interactivity or at least randomness in a realtime generated production! WTF? Why not just make a fucking video? What's the file size these days? 50MB? Hell, i can encode a 1080p Video in AVC of a 5 minute demo in pristine quality in less than that, like any CGI, Demos compress *really* well due to the complete lack of film grain and 100% static cameras!), if we in the c64 scene, with our VERY different environment and platform should mimic it is another point worth arguing about... Trying to mimic the PC scene brought us the whole 4x4-effect-era, and that's something I could've easily done without (luckily, we survived even that!)...
User Comment
Submitted by duce on 25 June 2009
"meet all together and drink some beer/wódka together... ;)
that would help!
I assure You - this is the way we solve things here :D "

Just tell me the place and time, I'm in!!! :D
User Comment
Submitted by Leon on 25 June 2009
100! ;_D
User Comment
Submitted by Jailbird on 25 June 2009
I thought we moved this to the forum but well...

Quoting DeeKay
Fighting teh flick0r and the massive blur, for starters... Haven't you done enough IFLIs yourself to know this better than most of us?
Yep, and that's why I think it's easily achievable to reach an above average level quite fastly (and by fast, I mean a year or two, not two weeks) with a lot of routine, even faster if there's someone who will show you all the tips&tricks. I'd even bet on this. IMHO, replicating to C64 (especially to theoretically limitless IFLI) is simple craftmanship. But read on...

Quoting DeeKay
Learn to sing like Celine Dion, and you'll become a respected singer! 8) And your point was?

Singing like Celine Dion needs congenital abilities. You definitely don't need to be a born graphics artist to fill up a screen with dithering over a traced outline. You'll most likely be able to achieve that by practicing a lot as long as you are interested in pixelling and learn the usage of different techniques. But to do something extraordinary and/or original - now that's when talent comes into picture and come up with stuff on the standards of Electric.

Quoting DeeKay
And who would that be exactly? Duce? Me? Mirage? Sander? Leon? PAL? Archmage? Deev? AMB? AMN? Dane? Oys? Poison? Carrion? Yazoo? Veto? HCL? Please do tell! Also, could you please define "converted"!
Don't worry it's not you. But let me not name them, those who are concerned will recognize themselves.

And by "converted" in this case, I meant PC wiring -> C64 retouch -> tagging.

Quoting DeeKay
but you're not some god that can tell others how they should be doing gfx

Quoting DeeKay
If Leon wants to do manual traces: Fuck yeah, more power to him!... Just don't lie about it! Like anyone else, he'll eventually do his own designs - some day of HIS OWN choosing! Who are you to tell him when to start doing this? Mind your own fucking business! You're buddies, so why not simply reason with him in private instead of ridiculing him publicly with your holier-than-thou bashings on here?
Wow, now that's very very far from my intentions. Stating that I'm bored of his copies and wishing to see more original stuff from Leon isn't the same as ordering him not do any more copies, ever. And we were discussing this topic in person for quite some time now. I adore his techique, and tried to convince him a bunch of times to do a few original pieces. I pointed this out here more-or-less sedately, and I think we were settled on this whole copying-matter up to my third comment after Leon greeted me with utter profanities on Skype and Oswald came to the picture by babbling about flamewars and quoting unrelated stuff.

Quoting DeeKay
It is also part of almost any jurisdiction btw, someone cannot be held liable for something if someone else has done the exact same thing and got tried and found "not guilty" for it...
Do moral standards evolve? What was OK in the past, might be not so cool today. F.e. beating up a wife? :D OK, sorry, this was far off :)

Quoting DeeKay
Also, please stop re-iterating how you "do not care"... It's getting more ridiculous with every posting of yours...
Spot on, but it's not me who decided to sqeeze my balls by stucking to this whilst it had nothing to do with the discussed topic. Oh but you know what, I do not care :)
User Comment
Submitted by DeeKay on 25 June 2009
"Oh DeeKay my good old chum. Well, maybe I won't quote you 100% accurately, but weren't you the one who said: there is no challenge in IFLI?"

I'm pretty sure I didn't say these exact words, but yes, that's my opinion. Anyone can do a straight conversion into IFLI (I'm talking konv1 & Co here, not manual conversions like this one!) and have a nice picture to win Compos with, the Interlace blur takes care of the missing details, bad antialiasing and bad dithering. However, truly masterful IFLI stuff still flickers somewhat, but it still takes quite some work to get it right.

"I'd like to know what's so hard in reducing a picture to 320x200, trace an outline over it, and repixel everything to C64."

Try making a masterpiece like Valsary's IFLI stuff and you'll understand "what's so hard about it". Fighting teh flick0r and the massive blur, for starters... Haven't you done enough IFLIs yourself to know this better than most of us?

"The challenge of patience, maybe. I bet I'd be able to nuzzle anyone here in no time to make above average IFLIs with the aforementioned "technique". "

Err - no. Straight conversions, yes, manual trace: no. This takes craftsmanship that definately not "anyone" has!..

"Learn a few tricks: dithering, antialiasing, color-mixing and there's nothing else to worry about - you'll become an estabilished, respected graphician on the C64 scene."

Learn to sing like Celine Dion, and you'll become a respected singer! 8) And your point was?..... Btw: Many, if not most of these singers are singing songs that someone else has written! Scary shit, I know!...

"Also, I can't get how come "HAH! But Hubbard/Electric/Mirage/whoever did it, so could I!"-kind of justification stands even for a second? For crying out loud, where are we, in the kindergarten?"

It's called "double standards" and it has nothing to do with Kindergarden. It is also part of almost any jurisdiction btw, someone cannot be held liable for something if someone else has done the exact same thing and got tried and found "not guilty" for it...
It's just BS to say "OMG! Teh Delta is so ruuuule!!!11!" when Hubbard took large parts of it from Philip Glass or did a 1:1 conversion of Hardcastle's "Nineteen" and at the same time throw a fit if some modern day composer takes stuff from published songs and is not upfront about it... Or how about Bob Stevenson, who manually converted quite a few photographs? Is he still a god to us or should we take away his title now, because the PC-scene demands original designs in times of 24 bit images and Gigapixel resolution (OMG, what a fuckin surprise, who'da thunk? 8)..

Also, could you please stop with the ad hominems (f.ex. "as (like?) I was explaining somethign to a 5 years (year?) old")?

"But what I find really, tastelessly gross, when certain artists simply retouch a converted image and sign it as their own work. *looking in the way of some people here*"

And who would that be exactly? Duce? Me? Mirage? Sander? Leon? PAL? Archmage? Deev? AMN? Dane? Oys? Poison? Carrion? Yazoo? Veto? HCL? Please do tell! Also, could you please define "converted"!

Your gfx are awesome, mate, and I like you, but you're not some god that can tell others how they should be doing gfx. I was quite like you once, back in the late 90s when I wrote that GFX sub for Newspress, but reading some of the stuff I wrote back then today just makes me shake my head what a massive pain in the ass and what an idiot I was! <:-) If any of the people I offended back then are reading this: I am truly sorry!

If Leon wants to do manual traces: Fuck yeah, more power to him!... Just don't lie about it! Like anyone else, he'll eventually do his own designs - some day of HIS OWN choosing! Who are you to tell him when to start doing this? Mind your own fucking business! You're buddies, so why not simply reason with him in private instead of ridiculing him publicly with your holier-than-thou bashings on here?

Also, please stop re-iterating how you "do not care"... It's getting more ridiculous with every posting of yours...
User Comment
Submitted by Jailbird on 25 June 2009
So like I said, I stated what I did here not because I'd be concerned about 1:1 copies even a tiny bit, yet as I'd care to see much more original graphics. Note the difference.

And we affected Leon (and hopefully others too) on his decision to at least consider about doing No Copy pictures and show us some originality. That's a good effect.

Furthermore, if you have anything more to add, please use the forum.
User Comment
Submitted by Jailbird on 25 June 2009
Quoting Oswald
how can you be PERFECTLY OK with something, if you think it has absolutely no value?
Oswald, for fucks sake!

Grass in my backyard = has no value for me. It's just there, growing out of earth and (not) being pretty

I'm perfectly OK with the grass in my backyard! YEY

Quoting Oswald
if you're not against copying why do you tell Leon he shouldn't do it?
I never told him he shouldn't do it. I just expressed my desire to see more original works besides his usual copies.

Further discussions: How can you be PERFECTLY OK with something, if you think it has absolutely no value?
User Comment
Submitted by Jailbird on 25 June 2009
*facepalm*

DUDE. My last comment here, really. You make my brain tired.

If I'd be against copying, that'd mean I'd never copy myself - which is not the case.

BUT!

B U T!

B U U U U U U U T !

Still here?

I find absolutely no value even in my own fucking copies. When I copy, I do it for the LULZ.

But what I find really, tastelessly gross, when certain artists simply retouch a converted image and sign it as their own work.

*looking in the way of some people here*
User Comment
Submitted by Jailbird on 25 June 2009
Man, I just wanted to go back to work, blame Oswald! :)
User Comment
Submitted by Stainless Steel on 25 June 2009
Please people, i think we all had enough of this now. Either open up a forum thread or just stfu.

"Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one"
User Comment
Submitted by Jailbird on 25 June 2009
Quoting Oswald
I thought you cant be both "OK" with something and at the same time stand up against it, but thats just me...
Oh my, I really do have to talk with you as I was explaining something to a 5 years old.
Oswald, if I tell you that I don't like vanilla flavored ice cream, by your definition it means that I am against vanilla flavored ice cream?

Also note what else have I wrote:

Quote:
On the other hand, I constantly grasp the sheer enjoyment, groove and pleasure of pixelling in general, and completely understand why Leon is keeping up with pixelling, whether he's copying or not. So who am I to judge anyway.
User Comment
Submitted by Jailbird on 25 June 2009
Quoting Oswald
"I DO NOT CARE IF ANYONE COPIES"

"I'm perfectly OK with Leon doing copies"

- JB
Yes. And your point is...?

Look Oswald, maybe you'll get it this way.

Yes, I am perfectly OK with remaking the beautiful, marvellous The Day the Earth Stood Still with state-of-the-art CG crap, Dolby Sorround and fancy, popular actors and shit. And I may state my opinion about what an utter crap it is, despite of how hard it was to make, how many people worked day and night without a rest or got hurt during the filming, or how much did it cost. So, I'm perfectly, absolutely OK, and I do not care about it, as it was not me who's asshole was stretched while shitting out the new version (i.e. "the copy").
User Comment
Submitted by Jailbird on 25 June 2009
Going back to my "notebook analogy". Let's say, by drawing with graphite on paper, you're somewhat narrowed (monochrome, ugly shading technique if you're doing it wrong, it only holds on paper surfaces, you have to master it to do it right, etc whatever) - so limitations apply, similarly as on C64. Still, I wonder how many of you'd jump out of your skin when seeing dozens of extremely well done, 1:1 photo realistic graphite copies of images found around the internet. Well, most of you would perhaps note the excellent technique (or the ingeniousity of the original artists), but mainly think about the missing beef, and move on. Still, we sometimes bless and defend copies on the C64 scene like Buddha himself shitted'em out.

Also, I can't get how come "HAH! But Hubbard/Electric/Mirage/whoever did it, so could I!"-kind of justification stands even for a second? For crying out loud, where are we, in the kindergarten?

On the other hand, I constantly grasp the sheer enjoyment, groove and pleasure of pixelling in general, and completely understand why Leon is keeping up with pixelling, whether he's copying or not. So who am I to judge anyway.

Was a pleasure to discuss with you, gentlemen. I rest my case, have to do a bit of work now. :)
User Comment
Submitted by enthusi on 25 June 2009
All worries aside: this IS a stunning picture and unlike many others Leon provides beautyful workstages. I love how it is NOT converted. I tried some HiRes (since there at least you cannot simply convert) and already thought the modern PC based pixel Progs (Timanthes, P1, etc) would kill the Pixelstar on C64.
Thanks Leon to prove me wrong here.
I agree that his work MIGHT be too perfect, but this is a biased view since he releases so much. Noone would care if he did 1 pic per year...
To render my comment completely pointless: I also agree with JB here. Its not "the same" as Art from the heart or whatever, but well, did he even want that?
To me it is quite some quality he produces and not many could achieve this, no matter by what methods btw...
And I prefer Photorealism on C64 over fucked pixel madness that is then called "Art"...
To each his style and seriously, most of these pics from Leon are 'photorealistic' - so by all means they are likely to be copies one way or the other no?
If someone copied abstract Art that might be different IMHO....
Enjoy pixeling Leon and we other enjoy watching it (though I dislike interlaced modes personally ;-)...
If I could chose:
every gfxian stay with LoRes multicolor or even HiRes. The latter is in my view the only platform for true technicans...
Cheers
User Comment
Submitted by Jailbird on 25 June 2009
Quoting DeeKay
they simply do not have the challenge of turning a picture into the fixed 16 colors and 320x200 resolution that we have
Oh DeeKay my good old chum. Well, maybe I won't quote you 100% accurately, but weren't you the one who said: there is no challenge in IFLI?

I'd like to know what's so hard in reducing a picture to 320x200, trace an outline over it, and repixel everything to C64. The challenge of patience, maybe. I bet I'd be able to nuzzle anyone here in no time to make above average IFLIs with the aforementioned "technique". Learn a few tricks: dithering, antialiasing, color-mixing and there's nothing else to worry about - you'll become an estabilished, respected graphician on the C64 scene.
User Comment
Submitted by DeeKay on 25 June 2009
An important point to keep in mind is that on PC as well as to some extent on Amiga, they simply do not have the challenge of turning a picture into the fixed 16 colors and 320x200 resolution that we have. *Ofcourse* on such platforms, copying pictures is much easier and hence more frowned upon than it should be on the c64, where working within these limitation is a daunting task already!

So let's not be "infected" by this kind of thinking that stems from a totally different environment...
User Comment
Submitted by Alias Medron on 25 June 2009
Leon , you're a great pixeler!
Great pic as most of your works.. as for the copy thing.. wtf?? copy or no copy as long as you had fun making it (and i know it's not wired but just looked up) it's more than ok.

keep them comming dude..
User Comment
Submitted by Groepaz on 24 June 2009
hollowman: what would be most interisting... how many of these 26 are mac users? =P
User Comment
Submitted by duce on 24 June 2009
Whohohoo! Stop this madness! Some does copies, some does his/hers own stuff and some does copies with own stuff. So what? If the picture looks awesome, it's all that matters even if it is pure copy. And if artist has really pixelled it with C-64, it's a marvelous job, no doubt of it. But, like JB said, it is really more interesting to see peoples own stuff. Like Electric, in his older days he just did copies and once someone said to him "Oh, you do only copies!" and after that ha hasn't done a single one copy. And guess what, I really do like his later work better. Even though there is nothing wrong with the copies. And Leon, Keep up the good work!! And I'm sure we will see an ass-kicking no copy picture from you soon :D
User Comment
Submitted by hollowman on 24 June 2009
Speaking of BS. If you read the comments on suicide barbie on pouet you will see that there are 211 thumbs up but only 26 thumbs down, and several of the down thumbs are from people who might as well be labelled as amiga,atari or gba sceners. If you wished to bash those scenes instead.
User Comment
Submitted by PAL on 24 June 2009
FYI, Leon did NOT convert the violin pic. He copied it. It is still handpixelled!

Sorry If it got out wrong... I ment that it were great and that most stuff that were awsome in the past were copies too... really well done...
User Comment
Submitted by DeeKay on 24 June 2009
gpz: BS. "no more, no less" my ass, read the comments on pouet, "violation of compo rules" is clearly *not* the issue pc sceners had with this!...
User Comment
Submitted by AMB on 24 June 2009
I loved that one, state of the art c64 gfx!
User Comment
Submitted by Groepaz on 24 June 2009
incase of suicide barbie it was simply a clear violation of the compo rules (no copyrighted music), no more no less.
User Comment
Submitted by yago on 24 June 2009
Very nice

DeeKay: I dont want to nitpick, but isnt PC Scene always shouting something defamatory, when a non-PC-Platform (psp in the suicide barbie case) beats the crap out of unoriginal PC stuff?
User Comment
Submitted by Mäestro AmN on 24 June 2009
Beautyful artwork.
User Comment
Submitted by Dane on 24 June 2009
Awesome technique, this is very well crafted. I'm not going to call the kettle black where photo references are concerned, but I have to admit I'm getting very inspired by stuff from Mirage, who can use a photo or existing picture and then make something deeply personal out of it.
User Comment
Submitted by DeeKay on 24 June 2009
As for the age-old copy/original discussion: Like probably anyone else I'd much rather see copied pics than none at all. Many of the best known, legendary and cherished early c64 pictures are copies - and so are musics btw, "Nineteen" anyone? Or rather Koyanasquatsi by Philip Glass, as remixed by Hubbard in Delta?

Copy+excellent c64-rendition: Win
Original sucky design+excellent c64 rendition (that'd prolly be me, not in ye olden days though! 8): Meh
Original sucky design+bad c64 rendition: No, thanks. Go copying!
Original great design+excellent c64-rendition: Godlike status...

I hate the PC scene's "No original work!!!! WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!! DEATH TO TBL AND SUICIDE BARBIE!!!" whining and bickering, these artsyfartsy guys are way too high on their own supply!...

Nonetheless: Source should always be credited! It's not the end of the world if it isn't, it should at least be told upon inquiries, actually CLAIMING it is your work is something else than not being upfront about the source...
User Comment
Submitted by DeeKay on 24 June 2009
Very very nice, Leon! 8) Awesome composition, i just find the strings a bit irritating: coloring and lighting is a bit weird, why is the lowest the best lit? and how is the split one still under tension? Also, they go below the bridge...
User Comment
Submitted by Scout on 24 June 2009
@PAL:FYI, Leon did NOT convert the violin pic. He copied it.
It is still handpixelled!
User Comment
Submitted by PAL on 24 June 2009
I have really studied some of the "better" images on the c64 the last years and I am so happy to say that there are alot of them that are really good on that hardware they are shown on. But the less so happy note has to be that artists really stand tal, abowe normal almost pretending like they have created their images all alone and from imagination, hoping noone will ever find the original. It is abit like hide and seek... will they find it? if they do I just say I did it because I love the original and wanted to do mine and so on or alter it... well no problem with that. I have lately tried to do some art on the c64 again and I have used some images or photos in order to make them... some are almost identical, but they are not conversions and that is what this is about isnt it? Because... if you are good you can do a cool image in layers and then auto tune with thimanthes and convert everything in your creations to near perfect pixel patterns on the c64... but like this image here it is often used shades or ranges that the human mind is not that great at computing while painting in my mind and that is what makes it a concersion more than a hard worked through image in my mind. I have seen artist even denying that they used ref images, even the final image really looks like a famous artist or a famous or easy to find image or art... that is what I find lame... the hide and seek... be honnest... I have created some new art and have used hundreds of hours on them so far... why... because I want to and for me they are special... even some are created from ref images... I have really worked... an in ifli it would be twice as much work... hmmm... interesting...

Leon: I really like your converted image with alterations... keep them comming, and be proud and honnest about your images.. in many ways it is better than the original, the framing and all... more impressing that way I think!

If there were no inspiration in melody images art and concept there would never have been a c64 scene... so the rules are abit lame, but myself I really handpixeled all my art and the new ones I have done, I love hand pixeled art, not the autopixel ones even they are nice too.

You all know that hubbard "ripped" alot? if you do not know this or understand... you are really lame!
User Comment
Submitted by Mirage on 23 June 2009
Is this the thread about `MANKY`? f&*cking awesome game!
User Comment
Submitted by Stainless Steel on 23 June 2009
Holy shit, what's all the bullshit about guys ?
User Comment
Submitted by oys on 23 June 2009
GREAT pic! congrats!
User Comment
Submitted by chronos on 23 June 2009
So much emotions around a picture, something that moves the people.. i like that...
User Comment
Submitted by Jok on 23 June 2009
"- If you don't like my release, or the fact that it is a copy, vote accordingly" - btw. i do like it ;)

Its not that simple, i'm afraid

"General rules applied for all compos:
if the production has unsure copyright status (ripped music, etc), it will be disqualified"

there were no given information that it is a "copy" (copy=disqualify) so how people on party could now that - to vote accordingly

carrion: great idea!
User Comment
Submitted by Jailbird on 23 June 2009
Quoting Leon
If you don't like my release, or the fact that it is a copy, vote accordingly
And when I do so, you usually feel offended. Isn't it like that all the time? I love you, really do, and a lot! But it eats my nerves when you run out crying to me all the time because of a low(er) vote, like I was bullying you or something.

Quoting Leon
If you like JB's stuff, vote for him
FFFFUUUbird totally approves this message! But note: vote 10, not 1!

Quoting Leon
After receiving so much flak, I will give further tries to No Copy pixelling
Finally, for fuck's sake.

Quoting Leon
such a shame that 2-3 of my latest work WERE in fact not copies and yet nobody noticed.
In case of that, I'm really sorry for missing them. Which ones do you mean?
User Comment
Submitted by Hoild on 23 June 2009
GOOD IDEA by Carrion about organizing a pixeller compo here on CSDb.

I hope some pixellers will participate in such a thing, or even a regular event.

Just make sure to check Google for images when the subject for a given compo is selected, and make it hard on all teh copy artistz.
User Comment
Submitted by Jailbird on 23 June 2009
@Carrion: awesome idea, I was thinking of the same for some years now, as of course, I'm thinking of awesome things all the time!
But srsly, some kind of a regularly held event (a kind of successor of C64.SK's Pixel Competition) would be really cool!
User Comment
Submitted by Leon on 23 June 2009
I was stunned by the comments here. A good time ago I decided not to
rag anyone or any release and yet I am not exempt from being waged a
war against. I tell you the following:
- If you don't like my release, or the fact that it is a copy, vote accordingly
- If you do like it, vote accordingly
- If you like JSL's releases, vote for him
- If you like JB's stuff, vote for him

That is it!

After receiving so much flak, I will give further tries to No Copy
pixelling -- such a shame that 2-3 of my latest work WERE in fact not
copies and yet nobody noticed.
User Comment
Submitted by Jailbird on 23 June 2009
Quoting Oswald
so whats the point?
The point is, that I'd like to see more pictures (or make it "at least one picture") from Leon, made on his own. That's all.
User Comment
Submitted by Jailbird on 23 June 2009
Quoting Sander
Sigh... Better check your own facts (releaselist) before stating such a bold stuff.
Counting not just single pictures but the ones used in releases, that's about 10-15 "no-copies" in the last 3-4 years, and quite some more since I started with pixelling 15 years ago. Gosh, did I told you I'm the most original artist or that I never copy? Still, I rather try to come up with one motive on my own in 6 months than releasing a 1:1 pixel-replica every second week. I do my own paper scetches and I make my own compositions instead of a Google image search -> straight to C64. Now, there's a slight difference, isn't it?
User Comment
Submitted by SanderFocus on 23 June 2009
Quoting jailbird
Exactly, every aspiring artist. And that makes Leon an aspiring artist for how long now? 10 years?

Sigh... Better check your own facts (releaselist) before stating such a bold stuff.
User Comment
Submitted by Jailbird on 23 June 2009
Quoting Oswald
so, just stop taking the scene so seriously like a job your life depends on it. ;) Leon copies, so what? lets hunt down oreganos, and start a flamewar about it? I dont think so. :P :)
First, I could still state an opinion about someone's hobby, yes?

"Hey dude, I see you like drafting in your notebook. Is that a hobby of yours, yes? You don't do this for work, yes? Ok, let me see... Oh, these are very nice pictures, good technique, but as I see these are all copies from Boris Vallejo. That's fine as long you practice, but not too original. Could you do something on your own by any chance?"

Get it, Oswald?

Second, I didn't even had to "hunt" for the oregano, it was amongst the first results when I searched for "violin" on Google images. Tough luck.

And third, discussion != flamewar. You know what's a flamewar? Exempli gratia, telling someone to fuck his own mom in the ass, yes? Did I do something like that, yes? Unlike Leon, on Skype, to me, after I placed this so offending, hurtful comment about hoping to see an original picture from him.

YES?
User Comment
Submitted by Jailbird on 23 June 2009
Apart from seconding Archmage's every single word, let me quote.

Quote:
and it is [copying] what every aspiring artist does
Exactly, every aspiring artist. And that makes Leon an aspiring artist for how long now? 10 years?
User Comment
Submitted by Archmage on 23 June 2009
This is a reinterpretation, much like a translation of a book or a cover of a tune. It is an interesting picture in that it shows technical skills that just a few guys in here can match. It is not a very interesting picture in the sense of bringing something of artistic value to the table. That said, Leon has never claimed that the original was his own so I think the "fucking lame" comments are way too harsh. There is a whole tradition of copying running through the history of the scene, and it is what every aspiring artist does in order to learn from his/her peers. The next step is to switch from schematic copying to the use of reference, and this is where also the subject matter will turn more interesting (hopefully). So keep it up Leon. Hope to see something from your own imagination the next time, because you are skilled enough to make that move.
User Comment
Submitted by Jailbird on 23 June 2009
Quoting Oswald
I'm tired of this leon mocking aswell. Especially when you two are good friends afaik...
Both you and Leon should learn the difference between mocking and stating an opinion.

Stop taking the scene so seriously, like a job your life depends on. It should be a friggin' hobby, something you do in your free time, for fun.
And once again, I DO NOT CARE IF ANYONE COPIES, I'm just bored of it. Ktnxbye
User Comment
Submitted by Groepaz on 23 June 2009
Functions :
Co-Organizer, Co-Sysop, Coder, Cover Designer, Cracker, Diskmag Editor, Graphician, Logo Graphician, Mega Swapper, Modem Trader, Musician, Organizer, Papermag Editor, Swapper

... with so many professions, i am pretty sure he can do it =)
User Comment
Submitted by Linus on 23 June 2009
Bordeaux: Go ahead, man! I would love to see your take on the oregano. Shouldn't be a problem then.
User Comment
Submitted by Stein on 23 June 2009
I think it's a beautiful picture and although there is clearly a problem with the strings on the violin, I actually have a bigger problem with the original: Those don't look like violin notes to me. Not that I've ever seen violin notes, but I'd imagine it's pretty hard to play 4-part harmonies on a violin.

EDIT: HOWEVER, if the strings actually went through the bridge instead of over it, they may end up in a plane (at least near the bridge and with adequate force applied), thus facilitating the playing of said 4-part harmonies. So I put it to you that the copy actually improves upon the original in this manner and so the author should be commended for his deep and intuitive reinterpretation of the original idea.
User Comment
Submitted by Groepaz on 23 June 2009
i'm totally with jb here....

and copying is not lame. not telling so is though.
User Comment
Submitted by Scout on 23 June 2009
I rather have 1 Leon copied picture than 200000 original JSL doodles.

Awesome job, Leon!
User Comment
Submitted by Deev on 23 June 2009
I completely agree with everything Jailbird just said.
User Comment
Submitted by Jailbird on 23 June 2009
Quoting chronos
the whole "copying is fucking lame" thing is fucking lame.. you cannot copy i bet'cha just posting crap.
if it is fucking lame easy shit why i dont see zillions of pics here on csdb?!
the whole internet is full of you wiseguys..
So laying down an idea and taking care of it's aesthetics, lighting, anatomy portrayal, textures, style, imagery, dimensions, representation, composition - is on the same level as simply tracing an image and filling it up with pixels? Right.
Well, I did dozens of copies in my time (nevertheless I always did my best to reveal my source and credit the original artist when I knew who did the original), but also tried to come up with some of my own motives, and believe me, the latter is sometimes god awfully hard. God. Awfully. Hard.

Anyway. I'm perfectly OK with Leon doing copies, it just doesn't excites me like some of you, that's all. I'm already aware about his extraordinary technical skills and I really appreciate it, but for once, I'd really like to see what could he come up with when he's totally on his own.
User Comment
Submitted by Radiant on 22 June 2009
chronos: Oh, Jailbird can copy with the best of them!

Seriously though, he's got a point. Technically this is very good, but I almost always prefer the original pictures instead of copies when I get to choose.
User Comment
Submitted by chronos on 22 June 2009
the whole "copying is fucking lame" thing is fucking lame.. you cannot copy i bet'cha just posting crap.
if it is fucking lame easy shit why i dont see zillions of pics here on csdb?!
the whole internet is full of you wiseguys..
User Comment
Submitted by Poison on 22 June 2009
Just to tell the whole story, it was fully done on C64, as it was me, who had to transfer the final pic to PC. Leon has no cable/hw to do such thing at the moment... Yes, it's still a copy. A nice one indeed.
User Comment
Submitted by Tim on 22 June 2009
Laptop computer............$ 500
Internet connection........$ 30/month
Xferring software..........$ free

Winning a pc gfx compo.....$ priceless

a 100% pc copy.............$ FUCKING LAME!
User Comment
Submitted by Jailbird on 22 June 2009
Mandudes, before someone takes my words too seriously, I kid, I kid, okay?

On the other hand, I'm utterly bored of 1:1 copies delivered from Leon's dry, unimaginative production line. I find nothing too exciting about it, except the outstanding technique. Hell, I'll second Raffox, and say that I even like some of JSL's pictures better, as they deliver at least a little bit of brains and fantasy. Sorries.
User Comment
Submitted by chronos on 22 June 2009
Hey birdie dont injure leon, he's one of the last true active pixellizers on earth..
User Comment
Submitted by Stainless Steel on 22 June 2009
While we're nitpicking, the strings seem much too thick for a violin. They'd rather fit a contrabass.

Arnold : IRC "GIRLFRIENDS" DON'T COUNT! \:-D/
User Comment
Submitted by Ninja on 22 June 2009
JB: This is not the oregano! The notes are totally different.

As for the pic, I really like the lightning here. Great pic, congrats!
User Comment
Submitted by Chico on 22 June 2009
wow!
User Comment
Submitted by Jailbird on 22 June 2009
And the oregano was annoyingly easy to find.

User Comment
Submitted by Jailbird on 22 June 2009
Oh and by the way. According to my girlfriend (yeah, I actually have one!), who played violin for 5 years, there's a very very serious technical issue with the picture. Namely, the strings should lay above the bridge, and not cross through it.
Leon, you tried to mislead us, I'm dissapointed, and now I'm forced to downvote you. 1/10, you suck!
User Comment
Submitted by SanderFocus on 22 June 2009
Nice composition :)
User Comment
Submitted by Archmage on 22 June 2009
I subscribe to da Fuuuuuuubird's template.
User Comment
Submitted by Stainless Steel on 22 June 2009
Where's the oregano ? :-D
User Comment
Submitted by Jailbird on 22 June 2009
<Jailbird's comment template for Leon's pictures>
Pros: technique, coloring. Cons: fuzziness, probably copied.
</Jailbird's comment template for Leon's pictures>
User Comment
Submitted by Skate on 22 June 2009
beautiful work! congratulations for the win. string colors are amazing. but some strings are a little bit weird :)
User Comment
Submitted by Tao on 22 June 2009
Whoopie fucking do, this is *awesome*!
User Comment
Submitted by Matt on 21 June 2009
mooi!
User Comment
Submitted by Yazoo on 21 June 2009
yeah - this one is great... congrats leon
User Comment
Submitted by grass on 21 June 2009
Nice work. Gratulation again.
User Comment
Submitted by Archmage on 21 June 2009
This picture is very well executed when it comes to dithering. The pixeling in the woodwork, the notes and the overall lighting and colourscheme work very well. The minor flaws just makes it more interesting. Good work and congrats on winning.
User Comment
Submitted by Deev on 21 June 2009
I agree with Steppe that this is one of your best and congrats on winning a PC comp!
User Comment
Submitted by Fredrik on 21 June 2009
This pic i awesome!
I must download it and see it on my 64.
Nice colours!
User Comment
Submitted by Hermit on 21 June 2009
I can say the same, realistic and artistic at the same time..Leon, it seems you will never stop giving us great suprises again and again. :))
User Comment
Submitted by Steppe on 21 June 2009
Probably Leon's best work, on par with that camel/desert themed picture. Perfect, stunning, masterful.
User Comment
Submitted by Stainless Steel on 21 June 2009
It's all about the skills.
User Comment
Submitted by Groepaz on 21 June 2009
"this pic has won the "pc" gfx compo at scenecon ;)"
which again shows how pointless the "omg they did mix c64 compo with others" whining is =P
User Comment
Submitted by Raffox on 21 June 2009
Hmmm, dunno but I still prefer JSL pics, those have a lot more to look at and discuss. This one here is just a nice, too perfect pic. Plain and simple.
User Comment
Submitted by Oswald on 21 June 2009
besides being fucking great: this pic has won the "pc" gfx compo at scenecon ;)

http://www.pouet.net/results.php?which=496&when=09&f=none
User Comment
Submitted by Linus on 21 June 2009
Fucking awesome.
User Comment
Submitted by Mix256 on 21 June 2009
Marvelous!
User Comment
Submitted by HCL on 21 June 2009
..and one string seems teh broken. But OMG, that's beautiful!! VIC to perfection!
User Comment
Submitted by v3to on 21 June 2009
in one word: excellent
User Comment
Submitted by Groepaz on 21 June 2009
some strings go below and some above the bridge? mmmh =)
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