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AKA :
Červi / Worms
Website :
http://www.c64.cz/inception/
Released At :
Schlimeisch 2013
Credits :
| Code | .... | Ray of Unreal |
| Music | .... | Factor6 of Anubis, Phantasy, Raiders of the Lost Empire, Rock'n Role Staff, Tropyx |
| | | PCH of KGB'92, Unreal |
| Graphics | .... | Factor6 of Anubis, Phantasy, Raiders of the Lost Empire, Rock'n Role Staff, Tropyx |
| Charset | .... | PCH of KGB'92, Unreal |
SIDs used in this release :
Contains information on the following event(s) :
Download :
Look for downloads on external sites:
Pokefinder.org
User Comment
Submitted by PCH on 10 July 2013
| Dui C64 kradou hlavně ti, co nic nedělají , máchají drtičkou co by vechno lo jen kdyby to někdo udělal a ačkoliv by mohli cokoliv zkusit nebo se naučit raději řeknou e nemají čas ... mno ... taková klasika dnes s děckama ... e Sigi :) jo .. a pak sedí s platformistama a vykládají, e máme sprity a oni ne :)))) (tohle není LHS kop do tebe !! :) |
User Comment
Submitted by Ray on 9 July 2013
| LHS: vsechno bezi na 64ce, neni potreba predelavat temer kazdy 'existujici' program jen aby fungoval a neni tu zadna snaha presunout vsechno na nejakej jinej S-CPU (byt ten napad co meli s IDE/SCPU nebyly schopni uskutecnit, tak je u ledu pokud vim). Toz myslim ze ne (: |
User Comment
Submitted by LHS on 9 July 2013
| A nebude to komodoru krast dusi? |
User Comment
Submitted by Ray on 8 July 2013
I thought about games like Spy vs Spy, Infiltrator (I like this game, ever gfx sux) and similar. But I am not sure, what is more work: make new game or hack these :)
When Multijoy will work as "switch", we can transfer ~1-2 bytes per scan line. So, if we will decide 10% CPU for communication (simple jsr xfer 'instead' of jsr $1003), we can xfer 1.5K-3.5K per second. With 'burst' (whole CPU used) we can xfer over 20KB/sec.
I will write firmware for that immediatelly when more multijoy will exists :) At this time, we have only 2 prototypes (me + PCH).
R. |
User Comment
Submitted by CreaMD on 5 July 2013
| Connecting C64 machines through joystick ports using this hardware thing, doesn't sound bad at all. Idea worth exploring. |
User Comment
Submitted by Ray on 5 July 2013
Hello JTR ! I am happy you like it (: Can you imagine, how ppl from Atari scene looks like after we did that game ahead of their eyes @ party place ? :) Do you know any EU law, which is not dumb ?
We are waiting, how many ppl will want to get adapter, resonable "production" price starts at ~25 pieces. So, let's see :) You know, this is not for profit, but it have to pay itselfs.
Someone asked me... Could I use that adapter to connect more commy's throw 1 JOY port into multiplayer "network" ? I never thought about that... But because protocol is bidirectional it's easy (: So maybe we will see 'multiplayer' concept for more C64s, simly connected by 1 JOY port :)
R. |
User Comment
Submitted by Jak T Rip on 5 July 2013
Hey Ray! We've talked about game development a long while ago - glad to see a game from you now... although it's more about the hardware right now.
As for myself, I'd definitely like to buy one of your adapters. I would love to distro them throught Protovision, but there is this stupid EU law that you have to register any hardware produced, which costs hundreds of euros (that's also the reason why we don't sell 1541 Ultimate and IDE64...).
Using a protocol with only one joy port is a fine thing. However I doubt this will be used for anything else then party gaming.
Anyway, thanks for beating Atari in the first place. :) |
User Comment
Submitted by chatGPZ on 3 July 2013
"I see a big potential for easy development of new stuff and adapting of old one"
using the bombmania 4 player adapter is as trivial as it could get, using this one is complicated compared to that (its still easy, yes). the adapter being hard to use is NOT what keeps people from making software for it :=) |
User Comment
Submitted by CreaMD on 3 July 2013
| Exactly it depends on how many games will be produced for this, but from what I see.. from how it is done, I see a big potential for easy development of new stuff and adapting of old one. I certainly like the idea of having one just because the way how is it connected to c64 is really appealing to me. (I'm sure I did use wrong phrase, but I don't care, you know what I mean, it's so fokin' cool.. just one joy port.. wow! ;-) |
User Comment
Submitted by chatGPZ on 3 July 2013
"These kind of games need to be done for "multiplayer" concept. You can't simply adopt 'any game'. Most of games will go messy then. But far not all !"
very few will not, thats the point. eg splitscreen type of things are still doable for 4 players, but pointless for more. that leaves you with "all players at the same time on same screen" type of games. and it makes things like a scrolling map almost impossible too unless you have a micromachines style scoring system (which will be kinda annoying with so many players, its already on the edge with just 4)
and no, it has nothing to do with liking these games or not. (as said, i have been working on 4player stuff myself for a while) i just see the exact same unjustified enthusiam here that came up with a bunch of other hardware addons. the only thing that matters is how many people will _actually_ produce something for it - not how many think its a great idea and who dream up their could-have-been project for it. |
User Comment
Submitted by Ray on 3 July 2013
Gropeaz: Maybe you don't drink enough beers :o)
"...will just get messy with 8 or even more..."
These kind of games need to be done for "multiplayer" concept. You can't simply adopt 'any game'. Most of games will go messy then. But far not all !
For example, Hypaball (I love that game!) could be easily adopted to 6 playes. And there is more similar games, which will work for 4+ excelently.
And sure - someone likes sex with woman. Someone with man. Someone with monkeys :) Every group have different concept of sex, which they love. And they dislike concept of others :o) *Usually* member of one group doesn't migrate between concepts of other gruops. Multiplayer games are similar :D |
User Comment
Submitted by chatGPZ on 2 July 2013
"Groepaz: you probably never play on party 8 player game. Atari scene allready know, these games are the best ! :)"
i did play some 8 player lightcycle thing ages ago, i find this type of game boring no matter how many players :)
as said, having 8 players limits you in what you can do quite a bit. a lot of concepts that work ok for 4 players (and those arent many) will just get messy with 8 or even more, imho.
reminds me of my bmx-simulator hack that i should finish some day... :) |
User Comment
Submitted by Yogibear on 2 July 2013
User Comment
Submitted by CreaMD on 2 July 2013
| I confirm that this is a totally great party hardware (people have fun with multijoy games at every Forever since Atari sceners brought it (both on TV and big screen)) and I'm pretty sure this will generate more games in few years than 4-port adapter because playing in 4 is a bit weird when you have more people at party, but 8 ppl playing on big screen or big TV, that will be much more fun, even for viewers. I believe in this product and from the list of games from multijoy8 I see there is a good start point with converting them to C64. |
User Comment
Submitted by PCH on 2 July 2013
Hi Groepaz,
If you do not have required hardware ... you do not need the games ...
Multijoy ( on the atari ) or Inception is powerfull fun for every party and higher level for fun. And if you have good idea and possibility to programmed AI, you may write game with AI for six computers and two players. |
User Comment
Submitted by Ray on 2 July 2013
Groepaz: you probably never play on party 8 player game. Atari scene allready know, these games are the best ! :)
On the other side - you are right. Atari adapter is just "party place" thing.
That's why we added emulating various mouses and other things. Would be nice, if this piece of HW could be used for "work" - not just for fun.
There is someone, who migh will do 'car' racing for multuplayer. Then you will need CPU for compute physic reated things - for realistic skiding, ...
BUT: At least here (CZ) - we beat atari folks :) So, one of main goals was success !!!! :) |
User Comment
Submitted by chatGPZ on 2 July 2013
ah, so quite a bit more involved than what Multijoy does :)
other than being a fun tech demo i dont see much use in this though, we have had the 4 player adapter for quite a while now and although a lot of people own one, only very few games have been produced that use it. and its hard enough to come up with a type of game that fits 4 players, let alone 8 :) |
User Comment
Submitted by Comos on 2 July 2013
| Perfect HW for parties.Now to code more deathmatch games :) |
User Comment
Submitted by Ray on 2 July 2013
Hello there :) The idea was born at Atari scene. We usually meet together (C64+Atari). And they have few very nice 8-player games. This year I want to stop lechery on place :) So, me &* PCH created simple multijoy adapter, which runs cheap HCS08 CPU. It can connect 8 JOYs and 8 PS/2 mouses.
Its completly different from Multijoy8. It communicaties throw simple protocol on 1 JOY port. So, together we can connect 16 JOY's. And because protocol runs fast (4 bits per one "cycle" - no shifting/selecting required) it can be also used as math coprocessor. Transfer inputs and read outputs. Ofcourse, it can emulate regular C64 mouses and allow using PS/2 mice directly with existing programs. Communication protocol and SW is (ofrouse) open source. Anyone can use adapter (including Atari scene). Actually, it transfers 8 bytes, where each byte represents one physical JOY. Complete communicaton takes ~50 lines of ASM source. It transfers ~1-5 bytes per scan line (more speed requires longer XFR routine and exact C64 timing). I selected 40mhz CPU for speed reasons. Discrete logic takes much more CPU time and can't use PS/2 (with emulation). Cheap CPLD can't simply emulate various mouse types. And FPGA cost too much :) Result can be seen on photos. Simple board. Simple software. Fast transfer.
To test and se possibilities we also created game, also called Inception, which features 8 helicopters. It is full screen survival X rolling game. We released preview on Schlimeisch party. I hope ppl liked it :o)
But because we was still playing atari multijoy game @ party place, I convice other to creating game. At party place :) And after 2 hours we played game (which you can download) instead of using computer from another side :o)
It tooks 4 hours to complete game, including testing. And another ~3 hours next day to add menu and other "shit" around.
To really enjoy game and fun, you need at least 4 ppl around :)
We are planning to make more 'simple' games and finish Inception game, which is much bigger project. If ppl will be interested, we can upload some video or release preview.
Feedback welcome :) If you have any Q, shooot.
CreaMD: Thank you ! I hope that si priste zahrajes s nama :o) And theoretically, we can connect 8 adapters to 1 adapter -> 64 JOYstick. For CPU @ Inception it's not a proble. But C64 could have trouble with 64 "actors" :) Transfer of 64 joystick data (@50fps) will take ~10-20% of 6510.
If ppl will like this idea, we are ready to produce adapters itselfs. Price depend on quantity, so, we are waiting for opinions etc... |
User Comment
Submitted by CreaMD on 2 July 2013
Yes you are probably right. I don't know how they did it with Multijoy8 but from what I have heard from PCH, I guess C64 controlls the interface and asks it to send next bunch of values (for single joy). The control rountine has 100 bytes said PCH, from that I guessed it must read the values in cycle and somehow tell the hardware to set the next group. Which also means that you can theoretically have 16 joysticks connected? ;-)
And the adapter must be fast enough to read all the joyticks. It has 40mhz as they write in short specs. http://www.c64.cz/inception/ |
User Comment
Submitted by chatGPZ on 2 July 2013
"Are you sure about that Multijoy8? It doesn't seem like it connects to just one joystick port."
yeah well, by "adaption" i ment adaption of the theory of operation (which is pretty much the same when using one port only, you just need a bit more logic, which is not really a problem here since it apparently went into a cpld type of thing anyway) |
User Comment
Submitted by CreaMD on 2 July 2013
"Hellies" (?) was quite fun.Although I don't remember how many players that supported. And I suppose it was an Atari I played it on??! (at this years Forever) ;-)
Are you sure about that Multijoy8? It doesn't seem like it connects to just one joystick port.
Seems like it comes with more games I actually played some of them at Forever over the years. http://home.arcor.de/grasel/mj8inte.htm |
User Comment
Submitted by chatGPZ on 2 July 2013
| so this is an adaption of the Multijoy8 ? :) thought about doing that ever since ninja came up with his snes pad adapter..... then dropped it because i couldnt think of a game to use it, other than yet another boring lightcycle =P |
User Comment
Submitted by CreaMD on 2 July 2013
| If I get right how the 8 joystick adapter is done, I must admit that it is extremely clever idea. I love it. Applause. |
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