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I like this position, and You?
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User Comment
Submitted by Ed on 27 January 2007
Deekay, you are right. I completely forgot about the historical context when I wrote that ;D
But you could ask yourself if nudity has played the same role over the thousands of years (we have been watching porn), in comparison to this picture ;D |
User Comment
Submitted by DeeKay on 27 January 2007
| Ed: I think depictions of people having sex are probably around a few thousand years longer than 20 years! <:-) |
User Comment
Submitted by Ed on 27 January 2007
I totally agree with Sander on this one. It might after all have to do with the fact that the picture is grey, and "lacks background". (So what, really?) On the other hand, it by that enforces the focus on the couple. They are obviously having sex, stuck in a position. Whether or not the title of the picture refers to that or on a meta level to something else (the scene) might be left unanswered.
This type of motive is quite common goods and has been so for about 20 years. |
User Comment
Submitted by Sander on 27 January 2007
About this picture; Leon's technically advancing, but let's not forget about the theme and how it communicates. I feel most tend to overlook this while babbling about conversions and pixels. Personally i feel his previous picture had much more expression to it than this one. E.g. a different angle (save me your bad jokes) could've helped incredibly.
(And one thing we all agree on: Rather an original piece than a conversion...) |
User Comment
Submitted by Ed on 27 January 2007
Deekay: yeah, your list reminds me of the fact that a lot of my musical experience came from the scene. Often as a kid I was thrilled when I realized that the radio played C64 tunes (NOT), only with better equipment :D
Your examples are very good... Nowadays I hear C64 music (RIPPED) being played on the radio. Now that is a different story!
But I still cannot see one note in this picture! Maybe a theme, but that is also a different story! |
User Comment
Submitted by DeeKay on 27 January 2007
"Hey she's my sis.... I should ask something to Leon :\"
I surely hope that does not mean the guy is you! <:-)
radiantx: Respected Musicians cover, too, occasionally. Most prominent example right now is probably GRGs version of Acidjazzed Evening. Or just think of Dane's covers of Madonna, "Leaving on a Jetplane" or JTs XMs - absolutely gorgeous stuff!
Going back further: Rob Hubbard covered shitloads of music, not only "19" but also Cabaret Voltaire and Philip Glass... David Whittaker? The piece in Lazy Jones that Kernkraft 400 covered was pretty much the only one in the game that was not a copy of some 80s pop tune! Bjerregaard made "Rosanna", a true classic.. JT made his own interpretation of Level 42s "Running in the Family", and let's not forget his "S-Express" and "Children songs"... Ouwehand used some traditional chinese folk song in the Last Ninja 3 music... Page's version of Deep Purple's "Soldier of Fortune" has probably been used in 500 farewell-demos!
I love Danko's "Hotel California" and EvS "Groove is in the heart" and "A trip into EvS Space", as well as Jeff's "Dune's K Remix" (Deus End-tune), the c64 version of Dune's S3M...
Etc, etc... I could go on for ages, and those are just the covered tunes in my favourites Playlist, meaning "I like these very much"! <:-) |
User Comment
Submitted by Ed on 27 January 2007
If one where looking for a skin type, this dithering look more like skin to me as it does not shine like metal, on the other hand one could start to look for weird stuff with the lighting. The picture is after all built form single fields that are moulded into illusionary 3d, using plots with different luminance to create depth and other sensations...
However, with the dither technique, it's more irregular and at some level seems to have something in common with my everyday life world experience. (also in comparison to how analogue photographs work, or pencil on paper.)
On the other hand, there are no rules really except for some worked in routine that is basicly the same technique on a lot of platforms.
I like the dither technique here, because it gives the picture a rather vivid look. It definitely makes it different in one sense from lets say the work of TCH, Deev, JSL, Mirage, Deekay, Electric, Sander, Jailbird, Joe or Clone. (Etc. ) ((Although some of the examples have worked with different techniques not stuck into one routine.))
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User Comment
Submitted by Radiant on 26 January 2007
| I should comment on the picture as well (since I'm drunk). It's a good pixel work, excellent shading, and Leon is certainly improving when it comes to anatomy. A lot better than I will be able to do anytime soon. |
User Comment
Submitted by The Overkiller on 26 January 2007
| Hey she's my sis.... I should ask something to Leon :\ |
User Comment
Submitted by Higgie on 26 January 2007
the motive is ok. ... interlace is not my cup of tea (makes me feel sick) ... copies without any additional ingredients are IMHO just some kind of technical practice. some additional elements by leon (like a fancy background for instance) might have made it something special in my eyes. but this is a copy job. well done - but still a copy job. if i must have done it, i would have failed, though. so there is some respect for the quality of manual conversion.
edit: and this must be one of the most commented pictures ever! :) |
User Comment
Submitted by Ed on 26 January 2007
...And I agree with Groepaz. her number??
<the rest of the text moved to an unknown place>
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User Comment
Submitted by chatGPZ on 26 January 2007
User Comment
Submitted by Deev on 26 January 2007
| I don't think most of the comments here are targetted at leon, but are more general views on todays gfx. |
User Comment
Submitted by Hein on 26 January 2007
Doing a cover in music also has its learning purpose (at least for me).
Personally, I don't think these comments are written down to help Leon. |
User Comment
Submitted by Radiant on 26 January 2007
| I'll have to agree with Helm, people only doing back patting aren't really showing much interest in helping others to improve. Also I don't see why one would be against scene graphicians struggling to become competent artists rather than settling for being able plagiarists. I mean, most of the highest regarded scene musicians compose their own tunes, why shouldn't it be the same for the graphicians? It's much more fulfilling for them as well. A copy is just a copy, a piece of craft, while an artistic work can express something unique. |
User Comment
Submitted by stash on 26 January 2007
this picture would have looked better if they where doing it doggy style.. but still, more silicon :=)
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User Comment
Submitted by Ed on 26 January 2007
Stash: Can't you see? He wants her to take A S_U_C_K O_N I_T. ;D
But the position is nice as it is right now. That is probably also the reason for the title and sub/ AKA-title... |
User Comment
Submitted by Deev on 26 January 2007
| Whilst I gave this release quite a high rating because I think it shows an improvement on some of Leon's previous human pixelling, I do find straight copies kind of boring to look at and rarely go back to them. I'd be a hypocrite to say I flat out disagree with the use of outside sources as I use them myself on ocassions, but after seeing years worth of perfectly pixelled copies, I find people's ideas more interesting than the technical implementation. I do sometimes find the high praise given to straight copy pics a little hard to understand as I look and think that most people could produce something similar, given a little practice, where as more original pieces come more from a persons unique mindset. |
User Comment
Submitted by jailbird on 26 January 2007
| I love you all! <3 <3 <3 \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ |
User Comment
Submitted by stash on 26 January 2007
| ED: more like S_I_L_L_Y C_O_N_S fantasies of girls on their spare time |
User Comment
Submitted by Ed on 26 January 2007
Stash: I think C64 has enough S_I_L_I_C_O_N to enable artists to draw girls. ;D
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User Comment
Submitted by Oswald on 26 January 2007
| jailbaby, dont worry about your bad day honey, kisses my love :* |
User Comment
Submitted by stash on 26 January 2007
"Doesn't mean I have to tell others how they should be doing their thang,"
all i´m saying MORE SILICON when drawing girls :)
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User Comment
Submitted by Helm on 26 January 2007
"Doesn't mean I have to tell others how they should be doing their thang,"
There's many ways to interpret what I'm communicating, and you choose to paint it in some authoritative 'DO WHAT I SAY' way when my only real interests in engaging in this discussion are: promoting honesty are artistic betterment. I'd rather not have a cock-fight if that's alright with you.
"don't think others owe anything to themselves other than the things they want to. "
As far as I can tell this is a lingual contraption that means nothing concrete. Circular and self-negating. What is desire and what's the difference between it and what you owe to yourself...
"I mean, this isn't art academy."
DeeKay posted a technical comment a while back in this discussion. In my opinion it's infinitely more useful to a) Leon b) us spectators c) the scene, than 100 posts of ass-patting.
Perhaps you do need an art academy. Perhaps you need more honesty and altruistic communal critique between graphicians. Perhaps you need less 'voting' and more 'helping'. |
User Comment
Submitted by Joe on 26 January 2007
| Some releases tend to have a forceful impact. However, I wonder if we will remember this image from its actual looks... rather from these types of comments. |
User Comment
Submitted by stash on 26 January 2007
i´m sure as hell gonna remember this for the lack of silikon :)
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User Comment
Submitted by Ed on 26 January 2007
Zyron: yes. indeed, leaving unuseful comments "everywhere" instead of just using the private message function.
I still think this picture is good, no matter in what direction this whole discussion seem to be heading and what points have been made.
Some releases tend to have a forceful impact. However, I wonder if we will remember this image from these types of comments, rather than its actual looks...
---
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User Comment
Submitted by stash on 26 January 2007
yeaahh AAAAAHHHHH i love the anabolic effect.. the girl lack silikon though :)
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User Comment
Submitted by Hein on 26 January 2007
Helm, both questions, yes. Doesn't mean I have to tell others how they should be doing their thang, or what is allowed and what is not. I don't think others owe anything to themselves other than the things they want to. I mean, this isn't art academy.
Zyron, that's coz we're artsy fartsy and don't want to be shy in our actions. |
User Comment
Submitted by Zyron on 26 January 2007
| There's this link saying "Discuss this release in the forum." but everyone seem to click Comment when they want to discuss something & the other way around. :) |
User Comment
Submitted by Clarence on 26 January 2007
@Helm
"Even if you're going then, and only then when you understand anatomy, to use photographic reference, at least get your own models and take your own pictures."
Leon used a *lot* of own imaginary stuff and own photographs taken with an exclusive model for the collection Deep , but some still find it cheezy and thumbed it down.
What the heck, there's always room to complain for someone...
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User Comment
Submitted by jailbird on 26 January 2007
As long none of the following statements apply to me, I couldn't give a fuck if Leon or whoever copied a picture:
- it ruined my day
- it gets more attention than my no-copy pic and I think it's unfair because my colorful toony picture, isometric city or random crap is at least original
- he gets the respect actually _I_ deserve
- people leave nice comments on the CSDb page which makes me way aggro
- it made me very sad and I had to cry at my workplace and now everyone in the office thinks I'm a pussy
- it made me so dissapointed I had no other option than to leave the scene
- stole my money, the fame and all the girls (or boys) |
User Comment
Submitted by Helm on 26 January 2007
"Helm, it seems you find technique like lighting, anatomy and such important."
Yes I do. Any artist that says they want to become better than they are right now owes it to themselves to do so. Don't you?
"Aren't you then like all other'technicians'?"
I don't consider myself great anything. And I do have a very intense interest in the technical side of pixel art but it's not a singular interest. Don't you?
"As leon stated it this was just a piece on the long way in the learning."
Which is why as I said Leon should wean himself off of copying completely if he wants to see faster results.
"oh and helm, hello ??"
Hello?
"where were you in 2006 hello ???"
Hello?
"I've seen so much breaktrough innovative compositions that my head got blown of. what were you doing?"
I was around. |
User Comment
Submitted by Ed on 26 January 2007
Helm wrote: "/.../ but don't you think 2007 might be a good year for the c64 scene to slowly start to abandon copying?"
Sure. Never too late for that. Give us more. :D |
User Comment
Submitted by Oswald on 26 January 2007
| I'd like to see this type of angry criticism over the quality... err no call it horribility of these days codings. As leon stated it this was just a piece on the long way in the learning. oh and helm, hello ?? where were you in 2006 hello ??? I've seen so much breaktrough innovative compositions that my head got blown of. what were you doing? |
User Comment
Submitted by Hein on 26 January 2007
| Helm, it seems you find technique like lighting, anatomy and such important. Aren't you then like all other 'technicians'? |
User Comment
Submitted by Helm on 26 January 2007
"I'd rather have a great copy"
But you can only see so many 'great copies' before they become 'just copies' and that takes a year or two of saturation on them for me. And it's taken this scene 20 years and it's still hesitant to stop?!
The real reason, I'd guess is this: if all the great technicians in this scene stopped suddenly using reference as if by law, then the quality of their own designs as compared to their old copies would differ so glaringly it would seem like a farce. To scenesters. To voters. To assorted hangers-on.
Great technicians in this scene are willfully stagnating for years because they're afraid to have it show in their OWN art that yes, after all, they don't know anatomy and lighting and construction or any other of the things their copies are BORROWING from real-life artists who worked very hard to get there.
Yes, in 1987 or something, seeing a Boris copy on a c64 would be mind-blowing because the machine wasn't made for it. But this is 2007. 20 Years after.
"It's pointless, so the PC gfx scene these days almost completely lacks the pixelling aspect"
You're talking about the PC demoscene but that's not all there is. Look at http://pixeljoint.com and http://www.pixel-arts.org/pixelation for people who are actively pushing pixels on PC machines. Don't they exist because they're not putting out demos? |
User Comment
Submitted by jailbird on 26 January 2007
| OMG he copied!!! And he used MCI!!! He'll burn in hell!!! We all gonna die!!! WHY NOOOO!!!! |
User Comment
Submitted by DeeKay on 26 January 2007
"It can only lead to better things. The rest of the internet pixelling scene frowns on copying, ripping, editing, using reference without showing reference etc. Why shouldn't this scene? If anything, everybody seems to keep an embarassed silence over this issue. Am I the only one that feels the copying has to stop?"
No, but the c64 scene is different to the rest of the scenes... Since we work in a severely technically limited environment, i consider it very interesting to see how well someone realizes a picture on the c64. Pixel technique is also an important aspect!
With the advance of Photoshop as the primary tool for GFX in the PC scene *ofcourse* people frown upon copying. Because using Truecolor you can always just scan the original and not see a difference at all! It's pointless, so the PC gfx scene these days almost completely lacks the pixelling aspect, which means that ofcourse the art NEEDS to be original - It is all that is left these days to differentiate oneself!
Many great and creative c64 gfxians have done it, and I'm not ashamed to say i still like Hein's or Mirages Vallejo conversions from back then or Valsary's stuff! Even Electric made "Herb's shot" and "Love Lisa" when he was already doing his own designs - and both pictures are amazing!
Kudos to the ones that make their own designs. It should be preferrable, yes, but if not - what the fuck! 8) I'd rather have a great copy of someone else's picture than no picture or one that looks lame but is original art...
Credit of the original artist *should* always be given though for GFX releases... |
User Comment
Submitted by DeeKay on 26 January 2007
Very nice, Leon! ;-) Kudos for the hardcore c64 pixelling! Did you draw the original yourself, too? It doesn't explicitly say so, so i thought I'd ask..
Some technical stuff:
1) Why not use the special dark gray for b/w pictures (mixed lines of blue and brown), possibly even the pink/green "grey" in certain places (although that has a slight color tint to it!) Check the gradient on the very right in this picture to see what i mean.. Ofcourse the effect only works with PAL-emulation or on the real thing! ;-)
2) I always wonder why people use Mcol Interlace (or even IFLI!) do do b/w pictures.. that means you only have 5 colors instead of 9! UFLI and UIFLI are just so perfectly suited for this, especially UIFLI, because if you ever run out of a color (which will rarely happen since it's only 5 colors anyway!) you can approximate it with interlacing other colors, e.g. lt. grey and dark gray interlaced -> medium gray! This means some additional flickering, but since it's just single pixels and never large areas you hardly see it. With UIFLI you'd have 9 colors instead of 5, and you can beautifully checkerboard-mix them, too, giving you 17 instead of 9 (MCol Interlace)!
Unfortunately 1) and 2) do not work that well together, since for linewise alternating colors you need the 2 colors of an 8x2 U(I)FLI cell already, leaving you without a way to fade into the next color.. It could be doable using sprite-colors cleverly in MUFLI, but wrapping your head around this would be extremely tricky and time-consuming!
You can also switch to solid colors instead of linewise inside the fading, but that would add a color-tint of blue or brown there.. The Interlace of UIFLI can help alot here, because with this you can alternate blue and brown inside the fading in both pictures! I did this in "Technocracy" in the wheel on the top left.. |
User Comment
Submitted by Helm on 26 January 2007
"role models" what?
If Leon wants to advance faster - though this piece is already much of an improvement over earlier copies by him - it would be by aproaching anatomy as a student, and then working from his own knowledge and not copying. Learn what the muscle groups are and how they are put together on the sceletal structure and so on. Not just copying a picture.
Even if you're going then, and only then when you understand anatomy, to use photographic reference, at least get your own models and take your own pictures. And then you should always say you used reference and show it. Why? Because this proactive approach, sweating for the result, creates art.
I don't mean to start something here, but don't you think 2007 might be a good year for the c64 scene to slowly start to abandon copying?
It can only lead to better things. The rest of the internet pixelling scene frowns on copying, ripping, editing, using reference without showing reference etc. Why shouldn't this scene? If anything, everybody seems to keep an embarassed silence over this issue. Am I the only one that feels the copying has to stop? |
User Comment
Submitted by Ed on 25 January 2007
The Work stages were totally awesome to look at. Very inspiring and I think it will show yet again any doubters that it is fully possible to draw quality pictures like this on the c64 without using scanners, rips, or whatever. Yeah sure, you have the original picture that played a role model, but there have been far more worse examples of such art in the past (ie. redrawing other peoples work not leaving own marks on the piece....)
I think you have captured something of the original piece, yet the work is free (due to the abstract nature of the original motive not giving us any specific hints at a certain date, time
and leaves much open for the fantasy.) |
User Comment
Submitted by Helm on 25 January 2007
| So you didn't scan, convert or photoshop this. But did you use reference, even just for the eyeballing? Don't you think it would be a good idea to provide such to the public? |
User Comment
Submitted by Ed on 25 January 2007
Interlace, interlace... interlace... Normal Drazpaint looks good too, you know ;D
The head of the man is rather flat and 2d looking compared to the rest of the piece. Other than that a good picture and nicely dithered. I like the grey... |
User Comment
Submitted by TMA on 25 January 2007
User Comment
Submitted by Skate on 24 January 2007
| Leon is improving himself but I was already voting 10/10 for him. Hmmzzzz :) |
User Comment
Submitted by jailbird on 24 January 2007
| The Anal Tommy is still a bit disturbing but definitely a huge step forward since Ice |
User Comment
Submitted by leonofsgr on 24 January 2007
| The first work in 2007! A simple body representation, to practice drawing anatomy. No convert, scan or photoshop, project one, timanthes.... ;_) Only a simple c64 and drazlace... and my two hands and eyes used... ;_) If you don't believe, ask for workstages! |
User Comment
Submitted by CenTraX on 24 January 2007
| Look Lovers also a great multicolor interlace picture. |
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9.1/10 (12 votes) 