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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
Event id #2314 : C64 Cracking Competition 2015
Howdy Crackers!
These days the cracking scene is pretty active, but it seems most effort is spent on rushing out a version first with non-protected games.
Now that we found this nice original that hasn't been cracked, we thought, let's turn it around. Have a cracking competition with all of you with a full price EA game, including a nice protection. So here we go with the first C64 Cracking Competition 2015!
You are invited to crack "Return of Heracles" (C) 1983-1986 Electronic Arts.
Download the original here: http://sh.scs-trc.net/return_of_heracles.d64
Please read the rules carefully, and take all the time you need, quality over speed please :)
Rules:
- Submit your entry before or at 23:59 saturdayevening the 28th of March 2015 by email to c64crackingcompetition@hushmail.com
- Your release must fully run on a stock c64 + 1541.
- Your release must be filecopieable and packed.
- Your release must contain a crack intro, but you also must provide an introless version. This will be used to accurately measure size.
- Recracking is strictly forbidden, you must crack the original we provide. When in doubt, we will dig through your release and ask a few questions to confirm you really cracked it yourself.
- Individuals may only be part of a single release, so a group may enter multiple cracks, provided they are done by other members.
- You are allowed to use whatever tools you want.
Calculating Results:
50% of the result will be determined by public voting, either using or own voting system or on csdb. Stay tuned for additional info.
The other 50% of the result is calculated by the compo organizers using the following criteria:
- The shorter the better *)
- The faster it loads the better
- Proper saving capabilities
- Full PAL/NTSC compatibility
- Amount of bugfixes (if any bugs present in game)
- Amount of trainers (no double trainers)
- Minus points if you introduce bugs and need multiple versions
- The more devices besides 1541 (or compatible) you support, the better
- Optional REU support is also nice
*) We explicitly do not want to discourage the use of large intros, hence
the introless version requirement.
Most of all, have fun cracking this full price game!
The Organizers,
Peacemaker/Hitmen
Burglar/SCS*TRC |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3186 |
<edit> nevermind, download worked =) |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 519 |
prizes!!!
#1 - the winner will get an all-inclusive 3-weeks holiday in Miami, in a 5-star resort, for his/her whole family (max 6 people, leave your cat at home). if you live in Miami already you'll win a nice box of icecreams instead (8 pieces: chocolate & pistachio)
#2 - you'll get a voucher for X'2016 party. it allows you to have a 25% reduction on the entrance price. but you must pay for everything you drink.
#3 - no price... no more than 2 crackers will manage to do it anyway...
:P |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 243 |
you ll sponser them? ;) |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 519 |
sure, I'll sponsor the icecream box! :)
ok, let's get serious (not so easy for me, but I'll try):
first of all thanks to you and Burglar for organizing this compo!...
I think it's a cool idea, but compared to other compos (like Didi's intro one) it has, IMHO, a negative point: you cannot submit your entry on CSDb (coz others will then see how you managed to beat the protection, and then all the remaining work will be just to make a 2 block shorter version or to fix that minor bug)...
so we'll see all the entries only on March 28th, correct?
greetz! Ze' |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
Fuck you Enno... I don't do this shit anymore... And I REALLY REALLY REALLY don't have time for it...
PiraSlayer Boot? I might have a look but still fuck you for tempting me ....;-)
FUUUUUCK! |
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6R6
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 245 |
This is from the Age of Adventure compilation disk ? |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
Pira Slayer boot indeed ... |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 519 |
yes, released by EA bundled with ali baba & 40 thieves.
while the standalone version (with better gfx?!?) was also released a couple of years before by quality software... |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
@ZeSmasher, people are allowed to put their version on csdb prior to the deadline. But as you said, that will give away lots of details... We were thinking of maybe announcing the arrival of each version, but without details. Maybe not revealing who submitted it.
@Bacchus, haha, my evil plot succeeded, you're back! :) and yup, it's early Pirate Slayer.
@6r6, Peacemaker should know where the original is from. ZeSmasher seems to know ;) |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
ehm... all tools allowed ?
i have saved some crackertool, that know all loaders :)
why dont you change the rules to: no pc tools allowed ? |
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Shine
Registered: Jul 2012
Posts: 346 |
I like this type of competition very much! Is this fullprice game never cracked before today? I am looking forward to some nice releases. ;)
EDIT: The rules are very nice defined!!! |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 243 |
Shine: this game has never been released by any group. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
oh noes, sidwave is going to win, he's got pc tools! ;)
seriously tho, there are no tools that do what's needed. maybe there are tools that help a bit, well, feel free to use those :) |
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Fix
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 54 |
Text quote from Loader: Lick my userport !
Must be my favorite so far.. |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
"Out of my code hacker"
A few remarks:
* I run Vice on true emulation and the game seemingly works. Is the protection disabled so the challenge is "just" to pack it to files? You couldn't mimic the track errors to a plain D64 - you need G64s for that. Or does the protection only kick in after a few loads?
* The game is so not my type. Any brief descriptions of what one should do so I can test? |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
I'm not sure if there was an actual copy protection included in this version. So yea, it's "just" to pack it to files ;)
and about the game, it's not my type either, but you pick a character to play, u walk around and find items, you can buy weapons and other stuffs and u can attack creatures, but they can also kill you. it's pretty much a turn based strategy/rpg game. |
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 677 |
So if any group releases this more than 48h prior to deadline its -at least in CSDB terms- a firstie? :) |
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Angel of Death
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 210 |
I'd be lying if I said I don't have the time but I'm just not very good. :)
However. As far as I can see this should be a doddle for all the A-listers... |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680 |
Nice one Burgie, too bad I am burned out on C64. Then again they can lick my user port because I've already raped their silly protection and even released a tool for it ;)
For those who chose not to use it, I commend you. You'll have some fun reverse engineering and prove you are a real cracker and not some wanna-be.
As a veteran of EA games, I'll say that there may indeed be protection buried in the game, so you should test thoroughly before you release.
Good luck and have fun all ye who dare to enter, and I await to see who takes up this challenge and releases some nice work. |
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Mason
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 461 |
Hmm wasn't Marble Madness using Pirate Slayer? |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 519 |
@Bacchus: google can find the .g64 file.
@Peacemaker: well, the quality-software version of the game was cracked by antiprotect, so if ECA just rebranded it with no big changes I don't think it can be a 1stie... or perhaps I'm wrong?! |
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sailor
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 90 |
EA Pirateslayer has a key-track which is not emulated by a .d64, so one could assume it is patched ( haven't seen a Pirateslayer without that key.. yet :) ).
There are a lots of Pirateslayer protected EA games. Marble Madness seems to be one.
//Jani |
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Zer0-X
Account closed
Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 78 |
First time I see such a messed up way of loading a file. |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 243 |
ZeSmasher: quality-software version? You mean the 3 years older version? Has huge difference to the one here. Ofcourse there are changes. Jusr compare the intro (f1) and you ll see =) |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
Ok, so the actual protection is gone. Thanks for the link to the G64 but then again I don't plan to do more work than needed ;-)
Gosh I'm rusty.
The "loader" loads to FFFA and I guess it then also loads over the loading pointers that the Kernel routine uses and can fork the loading to a totally diffeent place.
Tools used so far:
* VICE (with my Action Replay in it)
* DirMaster 3.0 (the disassembler doesn't support illegal opcodes)
* Regenerator 1.3 (which cannot handle files that wrap at FFFF) |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
done some more investigation myself as well, and I can confirm that the actual copy protection has been disabled in the .d64. 3 bytes got patched in drivemem.
it doesn't save much (any?) time though, everything else of the protection is still there. |
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Dr.j
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 277 |
i call to mighty E.S.I. to answer the challenge! :-)
come on Blackhawk & bytor i nominate you for the
greatest crackers of all time hehe |
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ϵʟʞ
Registered: May 2012
Posts: 26 |
Hi,
it is clear that this can not be the original disk as it is D64 - so it can not have any copy protection :) Can someone link here the original file - I mean the G64 original disk? |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
http://sh.scs-trc.net/return_of_heracles.g64 |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
weird, I just copied that g64 to d64 and result is identical to the d64 we provided in the first place. so either the g64 is just a copy of the d64, or there is no real copy prot ;) |
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Flavioweb
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 463 |
I can't make a working copy of this disk image, on emu, using copy tools...
Tried with Maverick, fast and nibble copy, but no success.
This means it is protected? |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
I used 15 seconds copy in emu (parallel cable enabled), created working d64 just fine |
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Flavioweb
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 463 |
Which version you used?
15 Seconds Copy 35 Tracks V2.39
give me a 1541 CPU JAM at $1200.
(x64 2.4.10 r28746M) |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
15 Sec. Copy / 256K RAM Version (1764) |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 243 |
why do you guys worry about that (disk)copy protection? the compo is about the release beeing filecopieable =) |
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The Phantom
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 360 |
I'm no cracker (mwuahaha), but I DO have this file in my archive. The directory structure is different too, not 2 files as the one you want people to crack, seems my .d64 has 21 or 22 files.
I'm guessing the copy protection was already cracked?
What's to prevent people from using this version? |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3186 |
the phantom: that's the older version of the game, also at gb64.com |
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The Phantom
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 360 |
Nice.. Thanks for the quick reply... |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 519 |
I've found the g64 and passed it to Bacchus, didn't check it was identical to the d64, sorry. someone should upload a .nib, that would help I think.
about the game, I'll play a bit (even if the type is not my fav) and check if ECA and Quality versions are really that different or just in the title screen.
greetz! Ze' |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
Dear all,
As Enno said, the "original" D64 had a few bytes patched that kills the error check. This means the D64 actually works and the actual protection is gone. So it's a crack we base this on, and technically we are asked to recrack. If you want to spend your time to find a version with a few bytes that are different to ensure you have a non-working copy, please feel free. I will not be bothered. This is a competition and we are all given the same basis.
I never fully cracked Pirate Slayer boot before but it's a very complex protection indeed. Wedge, myself and a guy named Harald Fragner (known from the early days of Datormagazin where he taught us to remove the border) hacked ourself through the cipher loop for Bard's tale and managed to extract the deeply hidden piece of drive code. After this we didn't know what to do with it so we were just proud to have been able to beat the ciphering, but didn't really crack the game. Holy smoke it took time.
Not that I am a big fan of the monitor of Vice but it makes life is A LOT easier than it used to be... ;-) Placing breakpoints anywhere and no timing risk breaking up. Feels like cheating...
Remark: Interesting there is an ASCII sequence that is used in the deciphering. "k.e.h". I guess that means Kris Hatlelid's middle name is something with E ;-)
I am documenting my steps in a textfile that gives every byte of every step. Will be happy to share once I am done.
I still worried my main challenge will be to understand how to play the game so that I can validate that the crack is working ;-)
Also trainers for a game you don't understand it SOME challenge. |
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Goat
Registered: Oct 2007
Posts: 42 |
Quote: So if any group releases this more than 48h prior to deadline its -at least in CSDB terms- a firstie? :)
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Return_of_Heracles , the game was "Built on an engine that was a precursor to Adventure Construction Set". And being made with a game creator it might not really qualify for firstrelease points. ;-) |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680 |
If you wanna recreate the key track or understand what it's looking for, I'll throw you a bone.
track construction
track formatted by writing $3000 * $55
$44F of $D7
$EB
$200 of $CC $AD
$AD $55 $AE $9B $55 $AD $55 $CB $AE $6B $AB $AD $AF $AB $AD $AD (this is the key)
repeated 3 times
sometimes a block of $100 to $400 $00 written (weak bits) after
creates pattern $11 $22 $44 $88 when read back
The actual booter is just stage 1 of this protection, it is both a copy protection (nothing could copy that syncless track) and a "crack protection" which makes it difficult break the game back into normal files.
I have given Burglar a tool to recreate the key track, but it needs to be run a real c64 I think in order to work, due that disk rotation and stepping stuff is hard to emulate to act like analog equipment.
You'll need an original that hasn't had the bytes in the loader patched however.
Bacchus: Have a look into the "junk" data too, there's a little surprise in it ;) |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 519 |
the original is here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stuart-Smiths-Age-of-adventure-commodor.. |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680 |
No one has released Ali Baba either, UCF crack doesn't work. |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
Fungus:
"Lick my userport" and "Out of my code hacker!" - is there more? I'm still not done with the "loader" file. Just done the deciphering and then I had to call it a night. I'm not 18 anymore ;-) |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
ok, guys, I have now the real protected original for you in .g64 format: http://sh.scs-trc.net/return_of_heracles_real_original.g64
- runs fine in vice
- copying with 15 sec copy failed ;)
- as expected, compared to the first version, there are 3 bytes different, just where its gonna check the keytrack.
so, if you want you can use this version now, but the patched original is fine too. there really isn't any difference in cracking it.
Many thanks to Zer0x for digging up the real original! |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680 |
Baccy: It's not text :)
Burgie: +1 for real ori, Thanks ZrX. |
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Maxlide
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 31 |
Quote: If you wanna recreate the key track or understand what it's looking for, I'll throw you a bone.
track construction
track formatted by writing $3000 * $55
$44F of $D7
$EB
$200 of $CC $AD
$AD $55 $AE $9B $55 $AD $55 $CB $AE $6B $AB $AD $AF $AB $AD $AD (this is the key)
repeated 3 times
sometimes a block of $100 to $400 $00 written (weak bits) after
creates pattern $11 $22 $44 $88 when read back
The actual booter is just stage 1 of this protection, it is both a copy protection (nothing could copy that syncless track) and a "crack protection" which makes it difficult break the game back into normal files.
I have given Burglar a tool to recreate the key track, but it needs to be run a real c64 I think in order to work, due that disk rotation and stepping stuff is hard to emulate to act like analog equipment.
You'll need an original that hasn't had the bytes in the loader patched however.
Bacchus: Have a look into the "junk" data too, there's a little surprise in it ;)
Fungman, r u sure that the key consists of 16 values?
I c 12.
$55, $AE, $9B, $55, $AD, $55, $CB, AE, $6B, $AB, $AD, $AF
...
cmp $0617,y
bne ...
iny
cpy #$0c // <- 12
bne ...
When found jump to T/S 3:0. |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1917 |
Since it appears that all of you excessively use VICE monitor currently:
Please note reproducable bugs and report them! :) Preferably with an IO dump, behaviour you expect, etc.
While toying around I figured that e.g. crashes on drive mem followed by a reset don't seem to switch memspaces properly.. |
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Fix
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 54 |
Even if the "copy protection" wasn't there it's just "copyable" and not real cracked. Depending on how many files you extract etc, you can make maybe a onefiler, need to add a fastloader, rewrite gameloader etc to make it a real quality crack = lots of work.
Perfect there there is a .G64 with working protection now.
Looking forward to see who makes quality crack of this one, cool idea to give every group/user the chance to get a first release.
Thumbs up! |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
Fungus? Graphics then I guess... Spill beans - I might not find it unless I look for it.
Still a quite interesting competition with an object that is really challenging.
I just hate the actual game 😉 |
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Angel of Death
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 210 |
Let me just take what happened in these last few posts back in time to 1987.
"Hey guys. I have an original here that hasn't been released yet!" Everybody jumps up and cheers for me, eager to get there hands on it.
"And eh... I had it patched so that it was copyable and working fine but I patched it back because where's the fun in that, eh?" They would have kicked.my.butt...
However, nice to see the crackers compete in such a sportive and honourable way! :) |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680 |
Skiddoo: Yes I am sure, it may not use the whole key, but that is what is written on the disk. I used my drive ram expansion and wrote a track interrogation routine that could read the whole track in one go.
:)
Baccy: Yeps gfx. |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
AoD: So it's technically not a cracking compo but one where we should make a file version of a disk based game. That's for sure still a valid quest as all the code of the protection is still there - it's just the disk error and the check of it that has been disabled. 99% of the cracking effort is still needed. |
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Angel of Death
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 210 |
hahaha. Thanks for the explanation, Bacchus. And, believe me when I say I was not judging. :)
But you must also know that back then a copyable version (100% working, or not) was, sometimes, considered a crack...
So, with this competition element, I look forward to see what 'added value' we're getting! |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
aod, this compo is not for people playing games, it's about crackers figuring out a complex protection scheme, and of course to see who's the best ;) |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
AoD - just removing the copy protection to make it copyable was never considered being done in the European part of the scene. The EA games launch by american had this, and I know I have done it once, but then The Alchemist did a file version the day after. (The Michael Jackson game - Moonwalk or whatever it was called). Making it file copyable is for sure added value.
On the note of target, what is today's opinion on loaders? Using the stock Kernal loader will mean that added speedloaders and the fast mode loading in emulators can kick in. In most of the current cases this should be faster. But a real life C64 with no cartridge, it would naturally be a pain. What is the current preference? |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1917 |
Speed it up, Pontus - as much as you can on stock systems :)
The criteria Burglar outlined above define current demands very well (whenever it comes to single or maximum double sided games), I think.
Allowing loading from other IEC compatible devices and drive numbers without speed loader sure is adding more value for some people than NTSC fixing whenever required of course. Just needs more work, space and you are never thanked anyhow ;) |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680 |
May a suggest a rule that bonus points for IFFL must be a real IFFL and not shitty sector linking. :) |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2968 |
Is there a rule about bonus points for IFFL? Haven't found such a thing. Anyhow, "real" IFFL would also probably mean smaller size, so i think there would be no need to judge "real" vs. crappy IFFL. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11346 |
you'll have a hard time making a crack of this game that doesnt use (some form of) IFFL anyway =P |
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Flavioweb
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 463 |
IFFL isn't != filecopieable?
Isn't this breaking a rule? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11346 |
hu? the whole point of IFFL is making it filecopyable |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2968 |
I thought the whole point was mitigating sector overhead, saving 127 bytes per file on average. :)
But yeah, any form of IFFL which is not file copyable (= comes without scanning) is broken badly. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11346 |
well, saving on size is only a side effect - the first IFFL systems just linked all the sectors into one big chain, leaving the gaps - however, its the only way to make it filecopyable when you have more small "files" than you could put into the directory. which may or may not be the case with this particular game as well =P |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1074 |
Quoting BacchusWhat is the current preference?
A fastloader that supports as many devices as possible, with kernal fallback for everything else. |
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Maxlide
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 31 |
Peacemaker and Burglar are the organizers of this compo and maybe these both should cause for clarity. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
I'd say the rules and criteria we set up are quite clear, complete and to the point.
if not, gimme a shout :)
personally, I wouldn't do a multi-device loader, simply because I never built any. This would give me less points than the version that does support many devices, but so be it ;) I'd rather beat someone in size instead. |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
My IFFL routine only supports 1541/1571 anyway. My issue then would be that the IFFL I have will not allow saving, and that's an integral part of the game to be able to do that. So I'm out of luck using my IFFL unless I rewrite it.
But F*CK what a mess this loader is.
Normally the game calls the loader with filename/number in A and then you can just replicate the loader so that calling the loader with a value in A you load that very file.
Now there is calling the loader with a number of different values. The part at $FC3E is difficult enough but when it's also called repeatedly from $85xx and stuff is moved around in memory I get mad.
Does it load blocks to $FB3E, and move it to $1700 whereafter the routine under $8500 moves it to another location or what the f*ck is happening here? |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
Quoting BacchusMy IFFL routine only supports 1541/1571 anyway. My issue then would be that the IFFL I have will not allow saving, and that's an integral part of the game to be able to do that. So I'm out of luck using my IFFL unless I rewrite it.
I have the same problem, my iffl only allows saving of a single sector (inside iffl), but these roh savegames are huge! problems problems ;) got good ideas to handle it though ;)
Quoting Bacchus
But F*CK what a mess this loader is.
Normally the game calls the loader with filename/number in A and then you can just replicate the loader so that calling the loader with a value in A you load that very file.
Now there is calling the loader with a number of different values. The part at $FC3E is difficult enough but when it's also called repeatedly from $85xx and stuff is moved around in memory I get mad.
Does it load blocks to $FB3E, and move it to $1700 whereafter the routine under $8500 moves it to another location or what the f*ck is happening here?
Think of the loader as a sector loader, cause that's what it is ;) sometimes it'll copy to 1700, sometimes to others, depending on what file ur loading.
Looks like RoH is really a huge challenge, even after cracking pirateslayer :P
I'm also starting to understand the game as well, it's pretty complex. Zeus already killed me for not fulfilling his wishes ;) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11346 |
Quote:Zeus already killed me for not fulfilling his wishes ;)
i hate when this happens =P |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 243 |
The T/S-Loader copies to $1700 and $fb40 (i think) one sector each load, and then the memory gets from there moved where its "needed". only replacing the loader with another one wont work at all. you need to fix a lot of other things to get it working. and i also found out there is a kind of ingame protection. ;) |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
[Edit]
Peacemaker;
Loads to $FB3E and the copies the page to 1700 which then copies to another location. This other location can be $9f80 from where it it's copied to YET another place. Give me a break! This is unlike anything I have seen before.
The first menu starts on 03,00 and that has a normal block chain (loading during the EOA blinking phase). Simple EOR protection of the data.
I just fail to find a table for references of the blocks. It's copying pointers across the shit, ROLing them and so on.
Hrm. Might have found the list of addresses stuff should be loaded to at least :-) |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680 |
Quote: The T/S-Loader copies to $1700 and $fb40 (i think) one sector each load, and then the memory gets from there moved where its "needed". only replacing the loader with another one wont work at all. you need to fix a lot of other things to get it working. and i also found out there is a kind of ingame protection. ;)
;)
You mean the loader has it's own block buffer for decrypting the sectors and then putting them into memory via it's own file management routines? *GASP* WOW, So technology, much idea, very protection. |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
Fungus
It's not a protection - it's just an implementation that makes the logic so messy to follow.
Just out of curiosity - who are working on this? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11346 |
didi and troublemaker i have heard |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
Also;
Implementing a saver, one stands between two options;
# a new one that is all filebased and
# making it compatible with the old.
The first option is a lot cleaner of course, but people who played the game before will not be able to use their old save points.
Or are we meant to provide a tool to convert old saves? ;-) |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
The compo organizers will also release a crack of roh, but out of compo, otherwise it would be weird ;)
no entries otherwise thus far.
but I'm hoping for FLT, Nostalgia, AFL, HF, GP, Laxity, A+F4CG and Onslaught as well of course. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
filebased saver should be enough, I mean, why would people playing the crack have savegames from the original? ;) |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
Kewl.
I have so much time on it already that if I would multiply it with my hourly rate it would buy a fairly decent car ;-)
I'm getting quite convinced there will be a FairLight one but I'm also sure that we will need most of the time allocated.
Can I also looking forward to us sharing notes of our project for reference, after the deadline. |
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ϵʟʞ
Registered: May 2012
Posts: 26 |
Hi guys I have done the first crack :)
It is not perfect but working ;)
But saving is impossible as it is file based..
Everything else is working well!
If you are interested or don´t believe me - send me PM, I will send you my cracked D64.
eLK |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1917 |
Bacchus, you capitalist bugger! :)
I am afraid the time we spent throughout the years on these things will never really pay back. |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 243 |
Fungus: Dont play smart, i did not say thats a protection. The protection is somewhere else.
ps: 80% of the used sectors are not decrypted. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
Quoting Count ZeroBacchus, you capitalist bugger! :)
I am afraid the time we spent throughout the years on these things will never really pay back.
I actually think the exact opposite. Being active in the c64scene has learned me so many things that benefit me pretty much all the time.
so for me its paying back on a daily basis ;) |
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Mason
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 461 |
I agree with Burglar |
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lft
Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 369 |
Quoting BacchusLoads to $FB3E and the copies the page to 1700 which then copies to another location. This other location can be $9f80 from where it it's copied to YET another place. Give me a break! This is unlike anything I have seen before.
Sounds pretty much like how people write software today. This loader must have been way ahead of its time. |
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sailor
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 90 |
Just some loose thoughts,
Many early games were pretty much all manually mastered("loader implemented"), making them a mess. Look at early vmax(1/2)-games, or perhaps this game. Why did EA make the loading so much more complex than the original game that already loaded from files ? For fun ? You be the judge :)
Lets take the later games with vmax3, rapidlok and also tapeloaders(cyberload; often consisting of a mainfile and levelfiles). They follow a standard, i believe this was made to speed up the production process and thefor mastering("loader implementing") so much easier and less costly.
Rapidlok can even wedge in on a kernal loader, which on the other hand, makes it easier to defeat. |
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BiGFooT
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 33 |
You can except a release from "Breeze" too.
By the way, the "EA loader" itself isn't a mess. It's pretty simple if you ask me. The game's loading mechanic is a bit messy tough but after you figured out the meaning of halfblocks then it's a "piece of cake". Also the Apple II and Atari RoH uses the same halfblock reading method which shows that it's not looks like this because of the EA loader.
BTW a conversion tool is better to support "original" savegames, however I think it's not worth it. The game is pretty short and i'm sure mostly no one remembers where and why he left his last hero. |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 243 |
"but I'm hoping for FLT, Nostalgia, AFL, HF, GP, Laxity, A+F4CG and Onslaught as well of course."
me too. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
Bigfoot, awesome you will be entering as well :)
As far as I know now, I'm expecting a minimum of 5 cracks of RoH. Really awesome to have many participants. |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
Also agree with Enno - it paid back big time.
The half block loading option isn't really used. Some confusion of my the mem copy routine is called twice before I saw it did this. It just does this when is copies to 0380 once and then 9f80 a few time. The latter is why displaying messages... |
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ϵʟʞ
Registered: May 2012
Posts: 26 |
Hey guys you are loosing your time talking about it here.. Better crack that talk.
I have the cracked file based version already done and is nearly perfect working.
I have still not implemented yet any trainers or fixes, but it is done - cracked and working!
eLK |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
@eLK, you should know though, there are 2 other cracks which are further than you that I know off. Still, great job!
One of those is the version by Peacemaker and me: game fully working, savegames fully working \o/
The other one, well, I guess I shouldn't share too much info with 7 weeks or so to go ;) |
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MADMAX
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 30 |
You start them with a crack already! Make them de protect the game! They already lost as they never had to learn how to remove the Pirate Slayers Protection! Sad!
Well if I did one I would start with making my original port it over as a G64/NIB and go from their!
Also less bugs if any exist on the European one!
Well have fun I have too many ori's to play with also why you just using side 2 of Age of Adventure what about Alibaba and the 40 thieves! This was a double sided disk?
I think about the many times I could sit down and think how could I make a group come alive and get back to hacking! Well I hope this does as I haven't seen Burglar and Peacemaker in the seen for a while! I bet they IFFL'd it and maybe close to 7 Trainers if not they aren't far off!
All I will say is good luck and may the best win! |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11346 |
Quote:They already lost as they never had to learn how to remove the Pirate Slayers Protection! Sad!
says the king of recracks. LOL |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 243 |
Doh. The Protection is to avoid backups of the whole disk. But the goal of the comp* is to get the file cracked copiefileable. Some people... |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680 |
@Peacey I wasn't "playing smart" I was just teasing you bastards, chill out.
I already mentioned the "breadcrumb" protections in these games (EA), which is probably what you found as it's pretty common in them.
@Bacchus: It's not about "cracking" the games, removing the protection once you know how takes all of about 5 minutes to do. I would consider the "real" protection making such games copyable with a file copier. Removing any in-game protections, and making the games trainable as many had protections against that too. Some even have protection against "cleaning" them and making them short, because of pirate cartridge versions being made. Jumpman is an example of the latter.
As sailor pointed out, the games from the US market were very much all like this in the early days. They must have spent a lot of time and money on these loader systems. But why? The question remains... since most were made "copyable" in a very short amount of time usually.
Glad this compo isn't dead, hope to see more from everyone.
@MadMax: Kill yourself. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
the compo is very much alive \o/ really looking forward to see how everybody handled ;)
status from the organizer's version (outside compo): crack finished, savegames fully working, many trainers found.
so now its trainermenu time, lets see which one we'll rip :D
@madmax, too bad you're not entering the compo, would've been a nice opportunity to show-off your skills. also, the real original is linked on the event page and in this thread. Wish we found the real original before we started the compo, but took us a few more days. oh well.
http://sh.scs-trc.net/return_of_heracles_real_original.g64 |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
Can I officially say that I fucking *hate* the $80 byte text chunks. Making the sectors to files make them 2 blocks and IFFLing them will need code in the drive which doesn't go well with aslo being able to save files. HATE!!!!! |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
Quote:@madmax, too bad you're not entering the compo, would've been a nice opportunity to show-off your skills.
:D |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
Quoting BacchusCan I officially say that I fucking *hate* the $80 byte text chunks. Making the sectors to files make them 2 blocks and IFFLing them will need code in the drive which doesn't go well with aslo being able to save files. HATE!!!!!
oh dear Pontus, how I would love to explain our approach, but its too soon! ;)
on another note, I will not be available during deadline weekend, so I would like to extend the deadline with 1 week... so that would be saturday the 4th of april.
7 days more for everybody \o/
does anyone (of the crackers working on an entry) object? |
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DKT
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 99 |
Can there be used fast loader made by someone else, f.e. Krill's? |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
Quoting DKTCan there be used fast loader made by someone else, f.e. Krill's?
yes you may |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
Having read this, I am considering pulling out of the compo as I realise that it can mean I will get involved in organised crime ...
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/03/03/home-office-prevent-..
NAAAAAHHH. What a heap of bullshit! |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
Learning more about the game every day. It is really complex. All data under control - especially the texts and full control on how to address it. Fair idea on how to structure the files. Crunching with today's standards ok. Full mapping of the player profiles produced. Made the first outline of a trainer that works perfectly but there is more work to be done before I am pleased with it.
All in all I'm now convinced that we have done all the difficult shit. Possibly with the exception of iffl + saving. Now it's just to wrap it up.
Looking forward to getting back to having spare time. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
As nobody objected against the move of the deadline, the final deadline is Saturday April 4th at 23:59:59, right before easter.
Everybody is invited to come to irc #c-64 to chat with hopefully all contestants around that time.
Funny thing is, Revision old school demo compo is around that time as well, nice opportunity to have the stream running in another window and chatting the night away with your peers.
Return of Heracles was hard enough, so there will be plenty to talk about :)
Shortly after midnight a zip will be released containing all versions at once.
Public voting should start soon after on a then disclosed url. We will re-use Votox - The X Voting System for voting (provided there are enough entries, and it looks like there will be). You can receive a votecode on irc from me, or you can request one by email: c64crackingcompetition@hushmail.com, or even via PM here on csdb.
Voting will be open for 7 (or less/more?) days, at the same time the organizers finish their ratings of each entry. Final result will then be revealed.
Time to start wrapping your crack up :) Which in our case means, finish the fuckin trainermenu lol
See you the 4th on #c-64!
Peacemaker & Burglar |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680 |
Saturday April 4th at 23:59:59
What timezone? |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 519 |
BCCT
(Burglar's cuckoo clock timezone) |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
Quoting FungusSaturday April 4th at 23:59:59
What timezone?
Central European Summer Time of course |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
About 24 hours to go, time to wrap it up! :) |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
12 hours to go! |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
Guys; there is a high degree of probability that we will make a submission that is version 0.9. The extra week didn't help when the real world called for attention; wives, kinds, work, food and sleep have been asking for attention in a way which they didn't in the past ... :-)
/Pontus |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
Fungus: Mind sharing the reference to the graphics now? We have naturally been past the Pirate Slayer Boot part of the work since weeks and I am most curious of what it was ... |
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sailor
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 90 |
There is supposed to be a skull and crossbones picture or animation. i found something graphicswise similar to that but i don't recall finding the code to display it. Kevin Pickell discusses this in a thread on lemon.. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
Bacchus, hah, I'm also rushing! postponed everything till last minute argh
good luck, 2 hours left :) and v 0.9 would be cool already! |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
check your mail, pontus ;) |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
4 Releases have made it!
Congrats to Breeze, Triad and Fairlight for entering the compo, cracking RoH was not easy at all!
You can check all releases here: http://sh.scs-trc.net/C64CrackingCompo2015.zip |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
Amazing quality.
Triads had the save games in the iffl (ugly) but seriously kewl ingame trainer.
Breeze had multifiles but also seriously kewl ingame trainer.
Scs+trc+hitmen had the least kewl trainer but nice filestructure.
FairLight had nice file, kewl trainer but was only 0.9 as it didn't feature any working game load/save. |
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Tao
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 115 |
Quote: Amazing quality.
Triads had the save games in the iffl (ugly) but seriously kewl ingame trainer.
Breeze had multifiles but also seriously kewl ingame trainer.
Scs+trc+hitmen had the least kewl trainer but nice filestructure.
FairLight had nice file, kewl trainer but was only 0.9 as it didn't feature any working game load/save.
@Bacchus: why do you consider having the savegames included in the IFFL "ugly"? Especially for this contest where one part of the challenge is to compare the sizes of the cracks you get a more relevant size from Sailor's version, since it's the upper bound of the disk consumption with maximum amount of save slots used; in all other versions the disk space used will grow as the user makes new saves.
(Plus if I remember correctly -- not sure -- Sailor has provided some bonuses included in those save games, for those who want to "fast forward" through the game without making the effort of playing it all the way through :P). |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
Tao,
Yes I do think this is a flawed implementation decision. I prefer to have the savegames there as plain vanilla files. You can then copy them as you wish.
In the Triad version
a) the save games takes up blocks even if you don't save any games.
b) you can only have a fixed set of save games. In the other versions you can have as many save games as you want. Just insert a blank disk and save.
If you want to make sure there is room to save and allocate the space, Breeze did as I prefer to see it. Bigfoot provided a set of saves. |
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sailor
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 90 |
N0SD0S has native IFFL(+REU) support for 1541/71(2MHz)/81 etc drives, meaning there is specific drivecode for each of these drive families.
Saving the savegames separately with kernal would add some hassle to it all.. and keeping track of free sectors with native code would prolly grow the drivecode too much. Having static saveslots is actually a pretty nifty solution to it all.
...Then if the 9*37 blocks should reside in the iffl or outside the iffl. well.. *shrug*.. there is however a possibility you gain a few blocks with IFFL since it will not waste free space in the last sector(s) ;)
The Kernal-version is for sd2iec/ide64 and other mass-storage devices that rely on plain kernal. SD2IEC will utilize jiffydos to speed up loading.
Triad also has a savegame import from the original, complete docs, walkthrough and a map :) |
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sailor
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 90 |
I am not sure exactly where you'd want to copy a savegame, except to keep it on the same disk as the game. But maybe i am wrong.
The triad version keeps blocks occupied, true, but those blocks are not free if you start utilizing the game and start saving.. you "can't" put anything on that disk to fill up the blocks.. besides we got "unlimited" disks with our .d64:s today. You could dedicate a disk for savegames, but actually you don't need to do that with our iffl :).
As for limited slots, well.. after saving 9 slots, you can copy the disk and continue on the copy gaining 8 new slots for each new disk (and continue play from the 9th).
Generally spoken, i think 9 slots is prolly pretty much enough for any game.
If you copy the iffl-file, you will also get a copy of all the saves. You can also copy the IFFL-file to your 1571 or 1581 and keep playing. Now, HOW cool is that ;)
I think its more interesting to look on the non-savegame portions since there is where one could save blocks, by optimizing or other tricks. |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
Sailor;
Don't get me wrong. You did a magnificent version - the docs and the map are great. The in-game trainer is REALLY good. Now it's only a question of weather in-iffl-file storage of the save games is a good thing. I say it isn't. Let's not talk about what's easier to implement and that but look at it from the user perspective.
# If I only use one save slot, I only need to use 37 blocks. You statically allocate 9*37. Always.
# If you want to send somebody YOUR savefile, you can do it if it's separate. This is not possible in your version. You need to send the entire game, including the executable.
# You can have many savedisks. You can save ten positions on one disk, and then feed it with a new blank disk to save ten new ones (forever). All in the same game session. In your version you need to make a copy of the game on a new disk - all of it, including all of the game.
# Savefiles in our version will be interchangeable with the Breeze and TRC/SCS/Hitmen version. You will need to rename them, but that's all.
In addition;
# Also there is a general issue file copying files that are that big.
So again, your version is truly great. And you perfectly implemented the implementation decisions you took, but I am debating the decision. |
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taper
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 119 |
I find it a more elegant solution to have the saves inside the IFFL, but that might be a matter of taste. However, filecopying such a large file is not a problem (and if it is - you are using an outdated copy program so try another).
It's interesting to see the different approaches between the versions and in one way all the versions that made the deadline are winners in my eyes. Obviously not many could or had the strength to do it at all.
And oh Bacchus, loved your and Rowdy's scroller. Pure poetry. |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
@taper - I *SO* wanted to write the scroller. I wrote that one months ago. Just after I was through the actual protection but well before I realised how messy the rest of the shit would be ;-) |
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Shine
Registered: Jul 2012
Posts: 346 |
Only 4 real cracks??? Where are the others "real" crackers? ;) |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
Quoting ShineOnly 4 real cracks??? Where are the others "real" crackers? ;)
And who would that be ;) |
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Shine
Registered: Jul 2012
Posts: 346 |
Quoting BurglarQuoting ShineOnly 4 real cracks??? Where are the others "real" crackers? ;)
And who would that be ;)
Sorry ... i asked for "real" crackers ... so there is not enough place for others, it seems! ;) |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
Shine,
The actual cracking was already done. A poke of some three bytes that eventually landed in the drive mem. This enabled the D64 to be playable and disk copyable, and hence cracked. The challenge was to make a file copyable version.
Digging through the actual protection was also done in a matter of a few hours or possibly days. This protections was SURELY a beast on the native hardware but much less so now in an emulator (where you can do fully transparent freezing).
The big chunk of work for us was to adapt the tool chain to Exomizer - including the IFFL. Picking the files from the disk, making a working solution for the games own block loader solution. Plus adapting the loader to also handle the blocks of text. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11346 |
... which makes it even more amusing :o) |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680 |
Nice work all! Good to see there is still some talent around and not just big mouths and wannabes. I did expect more versions though? Oh well.
As Sailor mentioned there is a pirate picture in the "junk" data of the loader. It is a character set picture. In order to get the display routine iirc, it is decoded at some point in the EOR/Timer decryption loops, but I don't recall at which point. It's just as easy to copy it out and reconstruct it yourself, it might be a sprite too... memory is a little foggy on it.
Burglar: I believe I shared my own notes and disk with stuff on it with you, go ahead and share that with anyone who wishes to look at it. I already released the decryption tool and source code, and yes I cracked pirate slayer on the real thing without the use of VICE or any other emulator using nothing but AR monitor... it was a real PITA hand tracing out how the booter even started.
As for the saves in the IFFL, I would prefer this myself. Sailor is perfectly capable to make an import/export save tool if that is your only complaint, I encourage him to do so.
Shine: Perhaps I will take part in the next compo, if someone would be kind enough to inform me and I feel like doing some c64 again...
I'll check through the versions and cast a vote if it is not closed yet. |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1917 |
Results? Who won? Some link? Is it over yet? |
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taper
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 119 |
I second Count Zero... Any updates on the compo status? |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
terribly sorry guys, lack of time/motivation, so please cast your votes now here on csdb!
voting deadline is 12:00 CEST sunday the 17th.
At that time I will snapshot all votes, calculate results in combination with the jury report and publish the final results. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
voting is closed, stay tuned for results :) |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
C64 Cracking Compo 2015: Jury Report
The Compo has come to an end and what a ride it was. Return of Heracles proved to be a quite hard game to tackle. Not only did you have to beat EA's wellknown Pirateslayer protection, but also figure out the weird loader system, the game's scoring setup, internal protections, its huge savegames and tens of kilobytes of text.
Only 3+1 entries might seem low, but considering the amount of hard labour required to finish this one, I'm actually really happy with 4 cracks. Or quoting "<Bacchus> HOLY FUCK it was a LOT of work! :-P"
Congrats to all participants, you're all winners in my book for not only beating the protection, but also delivering a high quality crack of what actually is a nice complex game.
Crack Size
Size was calculated without intro and without savegames. Which could be somewhat debatable as the Breeze release requires savegames on disk if you want to use any, Triad decided to include them in their iffl and FLT didn't have support for savegames yet, but I assume they would be on par with SCS*TRC, standard filebased and copieable.
For the Triad version, I had to subtract the savegames (9*37 blocks) plus an additional subtraction of $100 bytes per savegame for the last sector gap of those savegames. Just to make sure we are comparing apples and apples.
Introless Size Result
#1 BigFoot/Breeze 221 blocks 10 points
OC Burglar+Peacemaker 237 blocks --
#2 Bacchus+Rowdy/Fairlight 244 blocks 8 points
#3 Sailor/Triad 255 blocks 6 points
Massive win by BigFoot! His dictionary approach turned out to be not only shortest in size but also very quick in loading times.
Trainers
With regular trainers, it's easy to compare, but not with RoH! All crackers decided to go for an ingame trainermenu (well, except me :/), which is actually the best way to train this game. I'm very impressed by all 3 in this regard and it's hard to favor one over the other, so this is a bit subjective.
Trainer Result
#1 BigFoot/Breeze 10 points
#2 Sailor/Triad 8 points
#3 Bacchus+Rowdy/Fairlight 6 points
OC Burglar+Peacemaker --
BigFoot wins here by a small margin, Sailor's trainermenu looks best, but does not cover the same amount of trainers as BigFoot's. Bacchus trainermenu is nice, but it's not finished and will lock up in some cases, if it was completely finished, it could have competed for first spot here.
The compo organizers version has a high amount of trainers, but it's just nowhere near the quality of an ingame trainermenu, and the strength trainer is somewhat broken too :/
Loading Speed
I measured the time it takes to load the crack with a fastloader until you can select a player.
Here's where Triad's choice to include savegames in the iffl doesn't work out that well, scanning 560 blocks just takes more time.
The FLT crack was hard to measure, as pressing F7 in the main menu just causes the game to crash.
Loading Speed Result
#1 BigFoot/Breeze 0 min 45 sec 10 points
OC Burglar+Peacemaker 0 min 48 sec --
#2 Bacchus+Rowdy/Fairlight 0 min 52 sec 8 points
#3 Sailor/Triad 1 min 0 sec 6 points
Packaging
For the packaging category, we're looking at all the extras like docs, maps, drive support, reu support, etc.
Packaging Result
#1 Sailor/Triad 10 points
#2 BigFoot/Breeze 8 points
OC Burglar+Peacemaker --
#3 Bacchus+Rowdy/Fairlight 6 points
Clean win by Triad with docs and a map included, kernal version, reu support, you name it, it's all there.
Breeze comes in second by adding docs. FLT and myself have to improve ;)
Ingame Bugfixes
Were any bugs fixed? Were any bugs added?
Ingame Bugfix Result
#1 BigFoot/Breeze 10 points
#2 Sailor/Triad 8 points
OC Burglar+Peacemaker --
#3 Bacchus+Rowdy/Fairlight 6 points
Another win by BigFoot with proper gamespeed fixes and an ingame bug fixed.
FLT is dead last here as their crack just isn't stable and doesn't work with cartridge enabled, it also lacks savegame support while all the others do.
My version seems to be the only one with an IRQ fix, so that music doesn't occasionally slow down while loading.
Overall
And now to add up all points for all entries, so we have 50% of the final result.
Overall Jury Result
#1 BigFoot/Breeze 48 points -> 9.60
#2 Sailor/Triad 38 points -> 7.60
OC Burglar+Peacemaker --
#3 Bacchus+Rowdy/Fairlight 34 points -> 6.80
Public Voting
Votes were taken from CSDB many weeks after the compo ended.
Public Voting Result
#1 Sailor/Triad 9.70 9.7 (23 votes) 19*10, 2*9, 1*8, 1*7
#2 BigFoot/Breeze 9.23 9.4 (13 votes) 6*10, 4*9, 3*8
OC Burglar+Peacemaker 8.50 --- ( 4 votes) 1*10, 1*9, 1*8, 1*7
#3 Bacchus+Rowdy/Fairlight 8.47 8.5 (15 votes) 5*10, 3*9, 3*8. 2*7, 2*6
Final Combined Result
#1 BigFoot/Breeze 9.415
#2 Sailor/Triad 8.650
#3 Bacchus+Rowdy/Fairlight 7.635
Congrats to BigFoot/Breeze for winning the C64 Cracking Competition 2015!
Breeze totally deserves the win by winning almost all categories, especially in size you totally owned all others.
Hope you guys had fun cracking RoH, I know I did :) Even though it was a lot more work than I originally anticipated. Triad said it right "May the best groups be still standing".
An honourable mention must go to eLK/Avatar as he cracked the protection and had a somewhat working version ready as well. Sadly he didn't finish his crack.
Learnings for next cracking compos:
- Check the original a bit better, so we don't give you an already patched original. Thanks again to Zer0x for providing a proper original shortly after the compo started.
- Get the voting system finished before the deadline, so there are no huge delays.
- Maybe find a bit easier game to crack, as 3 entries is still not much.
- Think of how to get all the other crackers to enter, it's too bad there is no entry from G*P, Onslaught, Laxity, Hokuto Force, F4CG+A, etc. I'm up for suggestions :)
Until next time!
Burglar |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1917 |
Also interesting nobody came up with this recent addition before: Return of Heracles |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 519 |
I did. check my post #22 :) |
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taper
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 119 |
...and Peacemaker replied in post #25. A whole different version. |
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Maxlide
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 31 |
Congratz BigFoot |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 519 |
yes, that's the quality earlier version cracked by antiprotect... ehm, is this thread looping? :) |
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Cresh
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 354 |
It is worth noting that it has been won by demoscene guy. Congrats! ;) |
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Shine
Registered: Jul 2012
Posts: 346 |
Congratulation too all ... it was a pleasure to see REAL crackers in action!!! RESPECT :)
Where were the other "real" crackers? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11346 |
which exactly? besides those that are busy with ghosts'n'goblins? |
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The Ignorance
Registered: Apr 2006
Posts: 85 |
Me has headache... :) |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
Quoting CreshIt is worth noting that it has been won by demoscene guy. Congrats! ;)
Yea that surprised me too, a demo/gamecoder that kicked every crackers ass very nicely :P (not to mention the cool new Breeze intro by Oswald :)
I was even more surprised by the return of Bacchus and Rowdy, and not just trying out for a weekend, but actually putting in shitloads of time and come up with a cool crack and a fresh FLT intro!
@Igno, but did you try at least? You should be one of the few ppl that I reckon can crack these type of things. |
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The Ignorance
Registered: Apr 2006
Posts: 85 |
Nope.. Had to stop my job in february due to health problems.
No time and really not in the mood to do so.
I leeched the original and read the posts from the beginning and thought about starting, but sadly RL won.
And in opposite to my normal behaviour I kept my mouth shut. :)
In some days or weeks I will sell some of my hardware and originals. Ofcourse not all. But some pieces I will give to a place where they are used more often. All of my CMD hardware I bought as new from CMD. HF... |
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Tom-Cat
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 20 |
Not sure what to say, but some of us do think there is something fishy going on here....
Lets compare results for #1 (Breeze) and #2 (Triad) entries:
1. Crack Size
It says here "without intro and without save games" ...
If you just add up the TRIAD release files and deduct save games :
28 + 560 - 9*37 = 255 blocks ... so here no intro was deducted aparently!
If you add up the Breeze release:
148 + 60 + 12 + 9 + 13 = 242 blocks ... here aparently the intro is 21 blocks big and was deducted?
Not sure, but I think this part needs to be recalculated properly.
2. Trainers
Ok, seems fair. Breeze's version does have more trainers, but most people will prefere Triad's version because of how it is done. Which is reflected in the voting too.
3. Loading Speed
Now, if you look at the compo rules you will see:
- Your release must fully run on a stock c64 + 1541.
So, there is no mention of ANY fastloader being used. This HAD TO BE tested on the stock c64 + 1541 ! Instead for this test a fastloader was used (Action Replay).
If you loaded these two versions on the STOCK machine as rules state then you would come to the following result:
Breeze: 2 minutes 10 seconds
Triad : 1 minute 15 seconds
I think the extra effort for making the boot file as short as possible should be awarded and this should be fairly represented as rules point out !
4. Packaging
First question here is WHY is "Drive Support" and "REU support" a part of this category ?
Triad's version has MANY more features than any other version and for that it gets only a 2 point advantage ?
Breeze's version has incomplete docs, no map, no kernal loader support, no save imports,... ?
5. Ingame Bugfixes
I think this is ok. Breeze version does have one or two more, but I think the drive support and reu support, importing games and stuff like that should be really included in this category (if they don't have another) and if that is considered the Triad release should get the full points here.
Overall
Well, it is very convenient that your opinion counts as 50% of all votes since if you look at the public voting results I think they should weigh more... also of 51 votes 23 voted for triad version, so if triad got almost 50% of votes they should really count more than just 9.7 compared to 9.23 of Breeze !
Breeze version is fine, but Triads version SHOULD be the winner here, anyway you look at it! |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
@Tom-Cat, thanks for giving an in-depth review of my report. Some of your comments might alter the rules a bit for the next compo and some for sure not.
I'm a bit offended that you think something fishy is going on. Are you claiming that I am deliberately skewing the results? Nah, can't be.
On to the details...
1. Crack Size
My calculation is correct, but maybe you didn't understand when I wrote "For the Triad version, I had to subtract the savegames (9*37 blocks) plus an additional subtraction of $100 bytes per savegame for the last sector gap of those savegames."
Putting savegames inside iffl does not add 9*37 blocks, but actually about 9*36.6, and there are the 4 blocks that you thought I didnt count.
3. Loading Speed
You are mixing a release rule (as in, you will be disqualified if your release does not run on a stock 64) with a load speed calculation. But, I agree, this should've been more clear from the start.
Next time I think I will clearly state how I do the speed timing.
4. Packaging
Yep, Triad won this category by a landslide. And yeah, maybe this category should be split in an "Extras" and a "Loader Support" category in the future.
Overall
The 50/50 split between jury and public was there from the start and I tried to be as objective as I can be. There is nothing convenient about it, if I was to favour anyone, it would've been me! :P |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
I must add that Bigfoot is extremely good in all areas coming to coding (and not just on the c64, also in modern enviroments) including cracking, altho he mostly worked on demos etc on the scene. He is just not much into making a name for himself, or blabbling here with us :)
For example I guess nobody realizes that he did most of our Desert Dream remake, all the shitty linking job, often recoding parts of our parts, and the whole intro (side1).
I'm glad to hear he joined one of the big groups thanks to this compo :)
thanks for the comments on the intro, its been ages I've released something. not that I dont want to, but the bar is so high, and the time is so little, working on it ;) |
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Tom-Cat
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 20 |
Hi.
Just wanted a clarification on some parts of the judging...
About 1. Crack size - it is clear now. I was just following your text which says "For the Triad version, I had to subtract the savegames (9*37 blocks) plus an additional subtraction of $100 bytes per savegame" which doesn't bring the total to 255 blocks, with the 9*36.6 it does (the intro is tiny).
About 2. Action Replay or any speeder is not mentioned anywhere, just the stock c64 + 1541, so I think everyone assumed the tests would be run that way and that's probably the reason why 3ad has a tiny boot file. If sailor crammed everything he could in there it would probably made quite some more difference size-wize.
Otherwise - your compo, your rules :) |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
yea agreed, thanks for the tips, it'll make the next one better :)
the funny thing is that this game was actually a very good subject for a compo. so many different valid approaches possible for numerous things, which gave us really different cracks. This also made it hard to judge. |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
Again, thanks guys.
So our version doesn't have the load/save - Rowdy is still working on this. I guess not providing a 100% version sort of makes you participate out of contest anyway.
The reason why it crashes after F7 is if you use Action Replay. It should work fine without AR. We still don't know why this is. Thing is - it works with Action Replay before crunching :-)
Also, on my ingame trainer; I have added the enternal potion in the 100% version, and also the function to go back to "Know thyself", which enables you to make settings and then validate the result without going back to the game. I haven't seen any lockups and yould be happy to get the feedback where this appear. For me, the points for this is a bit undeservingly low.
The Triad maps and docs are outstanding. I can't even see why we got points in this category. They are not deserved.
So comparing the Breeze and the Triad version, I'd say the lack of IFFL is the "flaw" with Breeze" and I also do not like the in-IFFL placement of save games in Triad's version, and if I would pick a winner, it would be Breeze. So in a fight between two STUPIDLY good versions, to me, Breeze still a tiny tine bit ahead. If the FLT version would be working with AR and load/save games Id say we'd also surpass the Triad one.
Again, thanks for the fun and for luring me into wasting so many nights. It's was perfectly set-up for this as I had invested a lot before I realised how much was left and then I sort of already passed "point of no return". Had I know the requested amount of work, there is NO way I would have done it ;-)
Next time Bigfoot we be participating as a FairLighter, so we are looking forward to more of these. (Me eating popcorn and Bigfoot doing the work :-) |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
Can I also add that we actually sent a mail to EA legal to get permission to crack the game?
We wanted to get that as an extra bonus, our version being a legit copy and all the others being pirate copies.
Never got any answer ... :-P |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1646 |
-1 for legit copy. ;) |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680 |
BigFooT was indeed surprising and impressive both. Hope you have fun in FLT and do some quality work there for the rest of us to enjoy.
All in all I think everyone can walk away from this and say they learned something new idea wise on how to crack and optimize a game, how much work it is to do a quality version and not just a speed crack, and finally, have some respect for each others skills. You are the 1%.
Not everyone has the same preferences for how a crack should be done, and that's not a bad thing. Having talented people make great versions with different styles and features that gives people choice in what they play, well that's worth a lot and something that I've really missed over the years. Thank you all for some enjoyable cracks!
I hope to see more stuff done with skill instead of big mouths ;D
Good job wankers. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11346 |
Quote:I hope to see more stuff done with skill instead of big mouths ;D
this |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
Believe it or not - we have a version 0.99999 in the cooking.
- Rowdy worked and worked on the drive part and saving is now fully working.
- The complains that you couldn't get out of the trainer menu was found. Happens when you select keyboard mode. That is now fixed.
- Eliminated some typos in the intro scroller.
Who knows - MAYBE we will release the 1.0 version this week, some nine months too late ;-) |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 519 |
cool news! I guess someone could not sleep well lately... it also happens to me when I leave something unfinished behind... :) |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680 |
How about cracking compo 2016? |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
Just waiting for Bigfoot to do some validation so we can release it ...
Agree a compo for 2016 would also be fun. But it needs to be with a twist. Just cracking a game is not going to be a valid challenge.
Something like:
* The Games collection - all the Epyx "games" in one pack
* International soccer with an editor so you can make your own World cups from here and forever
* Alternate Reality: The Dungeon (See http://c64preservation.com/c64pp/bbs/dm.php?thread=1017)
Several references here to games not properly cracked:
http://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26283&sid=2539ff7f..
But let's NOT do
* Paperback Writer
* Rubicon |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680 |
All Epyx games would take years to do good versions of. Maybe a smaller publisher could be done, but still it would take a long time to do really good versions of them.
Alternate Reality's would be cool to do.
There's a thread here too about games not properly cracked. |
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Bacchus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156 |
RELEASED!
Return of Heracles +M
It's now with a 100% IFFL with full DOS load/save, scanning only once. You can store the 10 slots on any number of disks. I'm also pretty sure you can import the save files from the Breeze and Burglar/Peacemaker version if you just rename them.
Also the trainer should be 100% and there should be no issue getting out of the menu. If you complete the game it restarts and if you do it using the trainer menu, it might be that the restarting doesn't work as it should but after watching the end, NOBODY should want to play it again. EVER! It's still a stinking boring game. ;-)
So, fewer files than Breeze, kewler trainer that TRC and real DOS saving of the files, unlike Triad. I'd say it's competitive. (Still longer that Breeze and not the massive docs of Triad). Still proud and now also relieved ... |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1074 |
Fantastic, I applaud your tenacity :) |
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Flavioweb
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 463 |
Chapeau. |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680 |
Groovy. What's next, I want to play. |
