| |
NoiseEHC
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 51 |
World Record Database
Hi!
Is there anybody who knows if there is some kind of world record database? If there is none then are there people interested in creating one in a wiki? I am thinking about creating a paragraph of the effect description of "every" demo ever released (which have world records or new effects of course), and to group the effects into categories. For example "sprite multiplexers" would be a category, listing record numbers/years going up to Crest's 120/170 sprite records (each one a link to the respective demo).
Anybody interested?
Thanks,
Noise/EHC |
|
... 33 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....
|
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5031 |
Quote: Quoting NoiseEHCBecause I would like that way better. "Okay."
Quoting NoiseEHCDemos evolved in a way that now compos can be won by things which were called "filler" parts in the past. Now you have piqued my interest. Care to elaborate? =)
thats a view in the oldschool scene, I heard from hungarians the term "powerpoint" demos :) |
| |
Mr SQL
Registered: Feb 2023
Posts: 122 |
This would be refreshing to see, maybe there could be a forum topic dedicated to it here, there are a lot of interesting techniques and new discoveries still to be made from pushing the old hardware.
I think the comment above related to many demos having similar filler techniques once a particular method is created like clones of one another. |
| |
Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2856 |
Quoting Oswaldthats a view in the oldschool scene, I heard from hungarians the term "powerpoint" demos :) Well i was hoping for some specific examples and perhaps some dissection to show why they suck. :) |
| |
NoiseEHC
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 51 |
Quoting Oswaldthats a view in the oldschool scene, I heard from hungarians the term "powerpoint" demos :)
Ebben semmi meglepő sincs, mert én találtam fel ezt a kifejezést... :) |
| |
NoiseEHC
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 51 |
Quoting KrillWell i was hoping for some specific examples and perhaps some dissection to show why they suck. :)
I think "suck" is a little bit too strong word here.
But essentially it is about that "demo" is an art form where code+graphics+music is presented in a perfect composition. And code was supposed to push the boundaries of what is possible in Impossible Land. Now that last thing - pushing boundaries - faded away in the last decades.
Now I personally do not have any problem with people who cannot create something new and just rehash the same old effects over and over again. I also have no problem PowerPoint Presentations winning demo compos, as people who vote have no idea what they are seeing, so it is somewhat expected. I also do not go to demo parties and so I am not forced to watch 4 disk sides of animations either... :) What I have a problem with is that this is presented as the "Right Thing (tm)". It is not.
For example in my latest megademo I spent a lot of time with the turn disk part, which is a rotating floppy drive animation. It took ages to make it, because it was 5 colors so d800 had to be animated as well, and in order to fit all phases into memory the bitmaps had to be mirrored while the animation was running. And there was a sprite multiplexer above the graphics, which kinda sucks to write. So I do understand that even making animations is hard, but on the other hand I would never make 10 such parts filling 4 disk sides and release it as a demo. Never. Ever. |
| |
Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2856 |
Quoting NoiseEHCBut essentially it is about that "demo" is an art form where code+graphics+music is presented in a perfect composition. And code was supposed to push the boundaries of what is possible in Impossible Land. Now that last thing - pushing boundaries - faded away in the last decades. I posit that it didn't fade away, it's just not as glaringly obvious any more as it used to be.
And the advances are getting smaller and smaller the closer we asymptotically approach some hard theoretical maximum.
No idea which demos you've watched recently, but i did see some envelopes pushed at X23 and other recent parties. =)
Quoting NoiseEHCNow I personally do not have any problem with people who cannot create something new and just rehash the same old effects over and over again. Inventing new types of effect is the pinnacle of demo coding, and happens so rarely that any coder achieving this has always been an outlier rather than the norm.
And breaking some "world record" (previously held by another implementation of the same concept) is by definition the exact opposite of inventing a new effect.
Quoting NoiseEHCI also have no problem PowerPoint Presentations winning demo compos, as people who vote have no idea what they are seeing, so it is somewhat expected. Or they just have different opinions and taste than you do.
But, care to name just one "PowerPoint demo" which then won against some "proper" code-porn demo?
Quoting NoiseEHCI also do not go to demo parties and so I am not forced to watch 4 disk sides of animations either... :) What I have a problem with is that this is presented as the "Right Thing (tm)". It is not. Neither is it presented as (the one and only) "Right Thing", nor is your hyperbole anywhere close to The Truth (except the 4 disk-sides part).
Quoting NoiseEHCSo I do understand that even making animations is hard, but on the other hand I would never make 10 such parts filling 4 disk sides and release it as a demo. Whatever floats your boat.
But animations in themselves are specific kinds of effect in their own right, and also lend themselves to comparison and record contests, if you're so inclined.
You can push boundaries in bitrate, update frame rate, resolution and other metrics. |
| |
NoiseEHC
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 51 |
Quoting KrillAnd the advances are getting smaller and smaller the closer we asymptotically approach some hard theoretical maximum.
You are sooooooo wrong about that... ;)
Just for the record: there is still some $d011 stuff have not been done.
Quoting Krill
And breaking some "world record" (previously held by another implementation of the same concept) is by definition the exact opposite of inventing a new effect.
Probably I could have been more clear: by "World Record" I mean not only something which has a numerical value which is increasing in every iteration, but all "World First" effect, which have not been done before. I thought that it was quite obvious. |
| |
Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2856 |
Quoting NoiseEHCQuoting KrillAnd the advances are getting smaller and smaller the closer we asymptotically approach some hard theoretical maximum. You are sooooooo wrong about that... ;)
Just for the record: there is still some $d011 stuff have not been done. How does that contradict my assertion?
Quoting NoiseEHCProbably I could have been more clear: by "World Record" I mean not only something which has a numerical value which is increasing in every iteration, but all "World First" effect, which have not been done before. I thought that it was quite obvious. I must have missed the "or new effects of course" bit in the OP.
That would boil down to a database of general demo effects and their underlying technical details.
Who made them first isn't so relevant (except for the respective creators' egos) as the information that it has already been done at all.
Of course, such a database will never be complete, thus may always yield false negatives.
So in any case, whether or not your grand idea has been done before, why not just enjoy typing it in for an actual .PRG, then see how people react?
Just don't get carried away, claiming unproven facts ("Worldfirst!") in the scrolltext or so. =) |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5031 |
there is no wrong or right way of doing a demo, there are only opinions. but I must agree the creativity is often lacking, the same effects are repeated ad nauseum. even in tier A demos. |
| |
Frostbyte
Registered: Aug 2003
Posts: 174 |
I've been often pondering about such effects database. It'd be great for random "Wow, such many dots, but is this the all-time record or has anyone displayed even more dots at some point" wonderers, as well as people who enjoy (and have the skills for) breaking such records. :)
However due to the many factors (e.g. other effects on screen at the same time) that may affect the interpretation of what can be considered the best, imho a wiki would be one of the least useful places for it. To me such database would be all about attribution, and powerful search, filtering and ordering utilising it.
For example: If you want to buy a t-shirt from an online store, you don't just go to the store and search for t-shirt, and buy the only hit (or let alone google for "ACME Online Store t-shirt"). Instead, you may e.g. select a main category (men's clothing) and then filter down the t-shirts subcategory by selecting certain attributes or attribute ranges, e.g. size: L -> fit: regular or loose -> material: cotton -> colour: blue, and then sort the results by e.g. their rating, price etc. Or you may search for t-shirt and drill down from there.
As far as I can see, such demo effect database would only be useful if it would have enough metadata (attribution, properties, parameters, whatchamacallit) against the records to narrow down exactly what you're looking for.
As an example, "most sprites on screen at once" record(s) could be accompanied by several attributes:
- Number of sprites (integer)
- Crunching (boolean)
- Stretching (boolean)
- Top/bottom borders (boolean)
- Side borders (boolean)
- Framerate (float)
- Released (date)
etc etc.
Then people could search for (or navigate to using filters) exactly what they want, for example
- Most sprites
- Most crunched or stretched sprites
- Most sprites in all borders, sorted by no of sprites and framerate
Of course the possible combinations of attributes is nearly endless, but at least the attributes would be there and it would be up to you to determine if they're relevant for your upcoming record breaking case or not. You probably get my drift. :)
In order to actually implement this, I'm sure there are plenty of open source search engines that could build their index based on dynamic, typed attribution, as well as provide filtering and sorting dynamically, and maybe something suitable for the frontend too for both users and the ones who contribute. Not saying this wouldn't be a pretty large task though. And we haven't even talked about CSDB integration yet, as of course we'd want to do that. ;D |
| Previous - 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 - Next |
