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2006-04-19 18:34

Bamu®
Account closed

Registered: May 2005
Posts: 1332

Which 6581 revision...

Hi!

Which -> 6581 <- revision sounds best? Which one has the best sounding filters?

... 53 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2006-04-24 16:11

Bamu®
Account closed

Registered: May 2005
Posts: 1332

@jeff!

These values are "highfreq values" or "locked values" - whatever you wish. :)

09 00
61 AA ; f#-3
11 AA
11 A5
10 A0
10 98
10 92 ; f#-1
10 81 ; c#-0
FF 00

Well, I will respect your opinion about the 8580 SID and its "stupid filter curves". :)
But I have my doubts, that your example songs will sound as good on other SID revisions, right?

jeff wrote: "About the stupid filter curves of 8580.. again... $00-$80 or so seems to do something, but are like $00-$FF on 6581... and after $80 (on 8580) nothing amazing seems to happen(or?) So why was it done like this?"

Depends, what do you expect from a filter?

Btw. If you use a 8580, then value '$00' does nothing (audible). Ok, maybe there is just a minimal filter output, but usually not useful for composing ...

------

Ok, everyone can try out the following example (8580 SID):

Bass example:

Wave:

09 00
81 c4 ; g#-5
41 00 ; not locked
FF 00

Pulse:

Start value: $200
+ speed $10
- speed $10

Filter:

Low-pass + resonance $F

80 ; cut-off $80, frame 01 (noise)will be filtered
40 ; cut-off $40, frame 02 (pulse)
1A
0A
05 ; cut-off $05, frame 05
FF

---

Btw, it would be really interesting to HEAR a 6582.

2006-04-24 20:27

Soren

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547

@Nata:
Well I do respect people prefering 8580 instead of 6581.
(Just so you know) ;-)

I guess my main reason for not liking 8580 as much, is that I don't understand why they have to change it so much. If they atleast had kept the filters more alike, so that the cutoffs sound more or less the same on both chips, then I would have been more happy about it ;-)

It makes it harder for a musician to make filters that sound good on both chips... for instance vocoder-like sounds, which are often very dependant on the filtercutoff, it's hard to get
those to sound good on both chips... Atleast I have some worktune with a quite deep vocoder-like sound, that "says" :
"Viruz"... it's done on 6581r4 and even by chancing the cutoff just +/- 1 it doesn't sound as it should.

:-)

2006-04-24 21:01

V-12

Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 206

Quote: Quoting Murdock

SIDDER: fuck you!

Jestes zerem...
Quoting Murdock

stick up into your emulator

... i hipokryta.

It's funny that Murdock is always so "brave" only in virtal reallity. When I wanted to talk with him at North Party in 2004, I heard only silent whisper "sorry" and saw Murdock runnig away into next room.

Quoting Murdock

Alot of composers used others tunes to compose their own

Yes, but not for 8 years, "baybe"...

Quoting Murdock

you are not into real scene

It's just your imagination, your imagination, your imagination...

Quoting Murdock

No need to explain why the remix of Touldie's song got released.

'cause there's no rational explanation to release such crap "tune".

Quoting Laxity

Someone must have had a brainfart when they desided to update the 64!

Especially this silent samples in 8580... Samples-playing technique was - if I'm right - known when Commodore started producing new SID.

Quoting Randall

I guess not many of us have enough experience to tell the differences between 6581 revisions

But emulation is good enough to see main differences beteen new and old SID. And it's enough to tell old SID has too hard filter (for me) and doesn't support $5/$6/$3 waves.

Quoting Jeff

waves $50 and $60 works just fine on my 6581r4.... but those waves are quite boring...

No, why? :) They are boring same as other waves. IMHO people doesn't use mixed waves also because of old SID - where $5 sounds like taken directly from "Texas Chainsaw Massacre"...

Main topic: Asking about what thing is the best is always problematic. Because we all are different and prefer different things. I got accustomed to 8580, because I had it first. But for sure good composer can do everything, no matter which sid-chip is placed inside his Commy.

Offtopic to explain some things to one stranger:

Quoting Sidder

Jestes zerem...

You think that? Really? Why don't you write it in english?

Quoting Sidder

It's funny that Murdock is always so "brave" only in virtal reallity. When I wanted to talk with him at North Party in 2004, I heard only silent whisper "sorry" and saw Murdock runnig away into next room.

Yea it's funny! How can I talk with you when you are not treating me serious? And what about did you wanted to talk with me? Come on, be brave and send me a PM about your problems. Would be nice to receive a normal message instead of gay message from your friend and groupmate or that extremely stupid fake discmags and low-level articles about stories which never happened.

Quoting Murdock

No need to explain why the remix of Touldie's song got released.

Quoting Sidder

'cause there's no rational explanation to release such crap "tune".

So why there was the reason to release for example /VARIOUS/S-Z/Sanden_Peter/BMX_Kidz_Remix_PSID.sid tune and many more tunes? Plenty of covers, plenty of tunes with borrowed instrumets...but of course you don't know about that or simply you are ignoring alot of facts. I know atleast 1 composer who did his all tunes with using someone's Instruments...Why don't you bug those other people, who released other stuff with borrowed instruments? But well... I'm tired about explaining it, simply back off from me. I don't like you and your attitude and behaviour.

2006-04-24 21:02

V-12

Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 206

wow, quoting here is really extreme! there should be the preview before submit the new post ;-)

2006-04-25 02:35

Hate Bush

Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 457

Murdock, I remember you saying: "sitting in my room with a C64 saves me from all filth of this world". It seems like sitting in your room with a C64 kept you safe from the world, and also from eventually getting a life, very efficiently. Cheers.

2006-04-25 06:16

Yodelking

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 189

>[Murdock wrote:]
>So why there was the reason to release for
>example /VARIOUS/S-Z/Sanden_Peter/BMX_Kidz_Remix_PSID.sid
>tune and many more tunes? Plenty of covers, plenty of
>tunes with borrowed instrumets...but of course you don't
>know about that or simply you are ignoring alot of facts.
>I know atleast 1 composer who did his all tunes with
>using someone's Instruments...Why don't you bug those
>other people, who released other stuff with borrowed
>instruments? But well... I'm tired about explaining it,
>simply back off from me. I don't like you and your
>attitude and behaviour.

I didn't borrow instruments, I took the whole BMX Kidz tune, and just changed the digis. I did this 1988 when I was 15, and we released it in a demo. For me it was worth releasing, as I thought it was a fun idea back then. Our demos was lame and so were we, but we had lots of fun.

2006-04-25 07:09

Yodelking

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 189

>[Nata wrote:]
>Btw, it would be really interesting to HEAR a 6582.

I'm not gonna make a SID out of the suggested values, but if you mail me a SID you want me to try on the different SIDchips I have, I can do that.
Note though that they are placed in my HardSID on the PC, and not on a real C-64.

2006-04-25 07:21

V-12

Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 206

Quote: >[Murdock wrote:]
>So why there was the reason to release for
>example /VARIOUS/S-Z/Sanden_Peter/BMX_Kidz_Remix_PSID.sid
>tune and many more tunes? Plenty of covers, plenty of
>tunes with borrowed instrumets...but of course you don't
>know about that or simply you are ignoring alot of facts.
>I know atleast 1 composer who did his all tunes with
>using someone's Instruments...Why don't you bug those
>other people, who released other stuff with borrowed
>instruments? But well... I'm tired about explaining it,
>simply back off from me. I don't like you and your
>attitude and behaviour.

I didn't borrow instruments, I took the whole BMX Kidz tune, and just changed the digis. I did this 1988 when I was 15, and we released it in a demo. For me it was worth releasing, as I thought it was a fun idea back then. Our demos was lame and so were we, but we had lots of fun.

Yea the fun is most important! I didn't said that you borrowed the Instruments but simply you did the remix of this song like I did with one too. One stranger called "Sidder" pick on me that I released my own Remix so I had to explain, that I'm not the only one who did that with an original songs.

2006-04-25 07:21

Zyron

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381

Defiers rocks! :)

2006-04-25 10:20

Steppe

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510

Quote: Yea the fun is most important! I didn't said that you borrowed the Instruments but simply you did the remix of this song like I did with one too. One stranger called "Sidder" pick on me that I released my own Remix so I had to explain, that I'm not the only one who did that with an original songs.

"Hey I'm not guilty, others have stolen instruments/melodies/(insert material/immaterial term of choice here) before!"
And your way of defending yourself by pointing fingers at others is not especially smart and definitely not the way to win arguments.

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