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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5022 |
Does Interlace really suck ?
Back in 96 IFLI was all the hype, nobody really cared about the flickering if the picture was pixeled with a good technique.
Back in 96 Multicolor sized pixels were considered nice and not blocky, hires wasnt so overhyped.
and I think the shifting viewpoint to a great extent boils down to the wide used emulators. Everyone uses emulators today, and yes, interlace looks like shit in them, and multicolor pixels looks like huge square blocks in them.
Everyone should take some time and check the best laced pictures on a real thing with a real TV, and check multicolor / hires difference. I remember back in the time thinking that hires is actually to HIGH resolution, as a normal TV can hardly display such a pixels.
The lesson is: Interlace is only a flickering nightmare if not watched on TV, and multicolor pix has ugly big pixels only if not watched on a TV. |
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 717 |
Hmm. i don't really see that the conclusions 1-5 sum up that you *should* use blended screenshots from now on. In the end it really is a question of taste, no matter if you *prove* theoretically that blended shots are more correct or whatever.. Lying once is better than lying twice? Common, is it really that philosophical?
Never mind, i really shouldn't dive into this discussion as i will definitely not have the time to produce as much text in this thread as *some* of you already have :). My personal opinion is that i like rastered shots better. At least they have only 16 colors, while the blended ones have more -> i can't refer to them as being c64-gfx at all. |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1058 |
I was mostly just joking about AnimGIFs, but here's a proper one:
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
I'm a flexible person, nevertheless I also have better things to do than to discuss about graphics emulation the whole day and night. So if it's okay with all of you, I'll put up blended screenshots beside the releases and a download link to the dithered images. Deekay, Graham, any objections? |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
Edit: this post is a product the magical auto-refresh option of Opera, sorry :) |
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DeeKay
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 362 |
Quote: I'm a flexible person, nevertheless I also have better things to do than to discuss about graphics emulation the whole day and night. So if it's okay with all of you, I'll put up blended screenshots beside the releases and a download link to the dithered images. Deekay, Graham, any objections?
No objections here. That's a great idea that should satisfy both sides! ;-)
The ones that want to see the pixelling technique and the ones that strive for the best possible representation in GIF-form! |
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DeeKay
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 362 |
Quote:
Lying once is better than lying twice? Common, is it really that philosophical?
Ofcourse lying twice is worse, just try it out with your girlfiend! ;-) With everything (see f.ex. SID-Emulation or PAL-Simulation!) we strive for the best possible emulation technique, so we should do the same on Screenshots!
Quote:
My personal opinion is that i like rastered shots better. At least they have only 16 colors, while the blended ones have more -> i can't refer to them as being c64-gfx at all.
Then again, an interlace picture isn't just one picture, it's two. So if you're mixing colors through interlace the technically correct way for representation if you can't have the interlace itself would be to use blending, not rastering, cause that's not what the c64 does when it displays the picture. |
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 717 |
Do i have to repeat myself? I have a personal *opinion*, appart from technical/theoretical agruments (which i on the other hand agree on). I like one thing better than the other, even though it might be less correct in some aspects.
Try lying with my girlfriend.. You're just so good at applying a truth to something totally unrelated. Lying with screenshots is mostly harmless to everybody, though i might be totally mistaken there ;). |
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
Pssh,for all of you who don´t know how to add the graphics-mode..
Create the entry,add all the info and exit.
Hit the Update-button and when you labelled it "C64 Graphics",there is an additional option to set the type.
I hope people will take the little extra effort.
It can indeed be disappointing at times but also thrilling to see something is `just´ multi-colour. ;) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5022 |
call me a medium, but I can distuingish the individual pixels on the real machine while watching a laced pic. :D Checkerboard patterns are ofcourse out of this question, but I know whats in the memory behind them. The rest of the structures clearly DOES NOT BLEND on the real thing as the examples Deekay have posted. |
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DeeKay
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 362 |
Quote:
Do i have to repeat myself? I have a personal *opinion*, appart from technical/theoretical agruments (which i on the other hand agree on). I like one thing better than the other, even though it might be less correct in some aspects.
My bad, i didn't quote correctly! ;-) I wasn't reacting to the "i like this better" sentence but just to the one afterwards about a blended screenshot representing the original more correctly just because it only has 16 colors!
Quote:
Try lying with my girlfriend.. You're just so good at applying a truth to something totally unrelated. Lying with screenshots is mostly harmless to everybody, though i might be totally mistaken there ;).
Well, *you* started the "lying" analogy! ;-)
Tch: Thanks for that bit of information! ;-)
Oswald:
Quote:
call me a medium, but I can distuingish the individual pixels on the real machine while watching a laced pic. :D
Well - i can, too! It's just that they're Multicolor pixels, not hires! ;-)
Quote:
Checkerboard patterns are ofcourse out of this question, but I know whats in the memory behind them. The rest of the structures clearly DOES NOT BLEND on the real thing as the examples Deekay have posted.
Well - d'oh! It's interlace, and it's SUPPOSED to blend! Besides: On the real thing, you most certainly don't have rastering either, so what's your point?
However, you *do* see the horizontal blue lines on the original from the cropping of the Katon picture above - and NOT the pattern from the rastered version!... |
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