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No-XS
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 78 |
Is every fart worth a release?
I wonder what you think!
More and more, sid music is presented to us here on CSDB as single release. Some music is worth a release, even with a standard PSID screen. But, to me: Some are not!
Now I know what some of you might say: Taste differs and who are we to decide what is worth of a release?
(I believe we had that discussion with 'just some lame' graphician)
And I know there is not much we can do about it, than bully some people or try to ask some people to refrain from releasing stuff until at least 3 or 4 people say it's worthy of releasing
That being said, I was wondering that 99% of the sidmusic in HVSC was never released on CSDB as a single release. Who wants to take up that job?
And to taunt you even further: I still have 9873 unreleased worktunes, most are about 37 seconds long and sound like shite. Shall I..... ? |
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Stinsen
Registered: Feb 2012
Posts: 71 |
I just have one comment here.
> That being said, I was wondering that 99% of the sidmusic in HVSC was never released on CSDB as a single release.
THANK GOD. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11116 |
Quote:And to taunt you even further: I still have 9873 unreleased worktunes, most are about 37 seconds long and sound like shite. Shall I..... ?
definately! |
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bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2479 |
You should combine them to a gigantic opus magnum, running for 4 days, 5 hours, 28 minutes and 21 seconds.
It would probably require some on-the-fly decrunching, though. :-) |
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
I'm with no-xs. And it's not just music. |
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soci
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 473 |
Quoting ทѳ-×ઽ/toondichters
And to taunt you even further: I still have 9873 unreleased worktunes, most are about 37 seconds long and sound like shite. Shall I..... ?
Sure, let's push HVSC into the 5xxxx range!
And while we are at it we need an API for CSDB so that such stuff could be uploaded conveniently and automated. So that I could put it right into my post-commit hooks, after all each of them is pure gold ;)
But back to reality. Unfortunately the days of swapping are over where bad stuff got only distributed to you if there was no new good stuff left.
Normally self critique should work, if you feel it did not, tell what you think of the release in question. It works for some people. Unfortunately practice shows that this might fail, then just ignore what you don't like.
Also I'm pretty sure no one will care in 3 days anyway when it disappears from sight by the next batch of releases. Just hope that those will be better ;) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11116 |
i can only repeat what was said more than once: come up with proper rules which then can (and: WILL) be applied to every (!) release. and dont come back back whining when your own stuff must go because of these rules :) so far none of those who complained dared to do it. |
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Mekong
Registered: Mar 2013
Posts: 6 |
Only compo entries make sense as far as "C64 Music" category is concerned. And let us rate sid's. |
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Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 422 |
There seems to be demand for HVSC "rated" service. Details could be a subject to specific thread. |
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Stinsen
Registered: Feb 2012
Posts: 71 |
One more important fact to consider is that every fart IS, by definition, infact a release (of gas). |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
this thread reminds me to old me, bitching in late 90's about too much hungarian diskmags, now there are none, and I whish they would be still around. |
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freℚvibez
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 27 |
Somehow this topic reminds me of Deletionism and inclusionism in Wikipedia.
I say what's wrong with more releases? People like sharing and participating, albeit having different skills and tastes. Can't see any harm in a versatile conglomeration of (music) releases. There's no bad music, just different noises. Music elitists fuck off. ;] |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4596 |
What stinsen said. |
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The Shadow
Registered: Oct 2007
Posts: 304 |
Certainly every piece of music deserves a release. Oswald made a very good point. We should all be happy that there is a flow of new creations moving though the scene. Music, graphics, cracks, demos, tools, games and other efforts of creativity. Not everyone is going to enjoy the same music but what is important is that there is a wide choice available for everyone to enjoy. Someone may not enjoy a particular piece of music that someone else may be dancing to. Freedom of expression is important. |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
i think i'm in the "everything deserves a release" camp too, the only thing that "bugs" me is all these releases with the PSID64 interface wrapped around the music; there's nothing wrong with it of course but i'd rather see a music runner like Outrun Europe Soundtrack or what is essentially a demo part wrapped around them like Stardancer II.
And a music pack with multiple tunes and a nice interface would be good too... |
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celticdesign
Registered: Oct 2005
Posts: 148 |
Yes it's worth and it's freedom. At a guess scene would also feel pretty dead without such releases.
Plenty of my stuff (worktunes and shity tunes (okay nearly all are shity...) were never released but submitted to Warren / HVSC years later as I didn't care much at that time). Of cause some artists would doing good to release something like a gfx or music disc but everyone can do what he want. Oh and is it too much to ignore the stuff/artists you don't like? Maybe Pouet is the better place to observer then... |
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No-XS
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 78 |
freQvibes: I can prove with several examples that people get agitated, enraged and even depressed and sick. People who got encouraging comments at first, thought they could do it, got more and more feedback but could not handle that. People who, in my opinion, even got way too much praise on this website for their releases. Those people got hurt themselves! So it's not just ours ears that got hurt :)
And no, it's not as much as elitist, but more people who would like to keep the standard up at least and try to help people along the way.
celticdesign: so after 20 years, all of a sudden, csdb is no place for me and I should move to pouet? Or did you mean the people who take my first post the extreme way. Because when you reread what I wrote, I just asked some stuff and just said that some music isn't worth a 'release' to me. And for your music; you always added some extra graphics/code to make it into a release, for me.
T.M.R. You make wise choices in words; sort of what I was going for as a reaction! (hence the words about the PSID screen etc). I can't remember, in the beginning of csdb, that every sidtune itself was released. It was mainly after PSID became widely used, i think!
Oswald: To me, a diskmag is a release if it contains some attempt at contemporary music/graphics/code. If you just type text in basic that i.e. LMan joined Oxyron, then it doesn't make it a worthy release to me. Anyway; if you want to do some Hungarian diskmag with me, count me in! :)
I honestly have had the feeling, with some graphics and some music, that it was a release that was just meant as a joke and we just didn't get it. And it turned out it even was at some point! Some guys were just releasing music with bad init/play!
I wholeheartedly welcome any new composers in 2015 on the sid-train. I welcome LMan just as much as I do Uctumi. And I would be sad if the next superb sid-tune won't be released on csdb; it's just that I could do without a whole lot of others. |
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Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 422 |
Can't have an Oxyron or Dane release every week. I just took a peek at the no-xs releases from around 1990. I still do not get what is rule you wish to impose on others.
New releases by new artists are generally much better artistically and technically in comparison to what we did 30 years back as teenagers. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11116 |
its the old problem again, csdb being "abused" as a release site.... with no swapping chain that filters the worst crap. it cant be solved, unless by imposing strict rules on what belongs here and what does not.
personally i'd rather see some more crappy beginners tunes and graphics than yet another shitty "crack". but thats just me, and its irrelevant for csdb obviously. |
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No-XS
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 78 |
Mixer: they aren't sids released. They are music in a demo, or production, or whatever!! My god, I know I really suck as a composer..
This makes me want to leave CSDB...Thank you |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11116 |
there is a pretty simple solution (which however, i know a lot wont like at all) - make it like pouet, and have a selected group of people who can add stuff (preferably these are not involved in creating those) |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quoting ทѳ-×ઽ/toondichtersI can't remember, in the beginning of csdb, that every sidtune itself was released. It was mainly after PSID became widely used, i think!
PSID just made things more convenient i think, before that there were still noters or persuading a programmer to write some bespoke code. These are all valid releases to my mind like the WeMUSIC or Hubbard music demos from the 1980s (possibly more so since those were meant to be touting for commercial work rather than directly contributing to the scene) so should be archived here.
Quoting Groepazthere is a pretty simple solution (which however, i know a lot wont like at all) - make it like pouet, and have a selected group of people who can add stuff (preferably these are not involved in creating those)
Anybody can add something to Pouet (at least i'm assuming that hasn't changed since i last added a release) but the moderators have to get involved for even minor edits and that's a crappy approach. i reckon it's telling that the newcomer Demozoo is more like the CSDb than Pouet.
What might work is a more flexible way to tailor the "CSDb experience" in the same way we can currently select "Demo scene" or "Crack scene" view modes, but allowing much more freedom to hide or perhaps highlight specific categories and perhaps even define if those rules only apply in certain circumstances like releases outside of competitions. How often it'd actually be used is anyone's guess... |
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Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 422 |
No-Xs: So, no sid-file only releases in CSDB, is that it? or, no bad quality sid-file only releases in CSDB, is that it?
I am sorry if you leave because of this. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1031 |
Quote:Oh and is it too much to ignore the stuff/artists you don't like? +1, really whats all the fuss about. as long as its not ripped, a release is a release.
noksje, zit je tampon scheef? ;) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11116 |
Quote:zit je tampon scheef?
LOL |
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LMan
Registered: Jun 2010
Posts: 79 |
Well, making the experience lately when I wanted to replace the PSID screen of my song releases with Koala pics. Those were then separated into extra releases, which was *not* what I wanted, however it was pointed out to me that CSDb is not a release site but a database, like Groepaz mentioned. Since there is no "version" tracking of a single release, each bugfix for example in Ghosts 'n Goblins Arcade will require a new release. Those are the rules, and since a database should be as complete as possible, I'm agree to the "accept all" policy. |
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Soren
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547 |
Farts are to be released at parties, so others can enjoy them :) Preferably farts by old farts. ;) |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
i been hearing so much about fart sid sounds for over 10 years by soren, but i dont remember that any of these farty tunes are ever released ? :)
strikkespillet is very old and impossible to play, maybe a new impossible game... stop the fart! gameplay: a sleeping hall at a C64 party filled with drunken sleeping elite people, and then the rooom is filled with deadly farts as the night progress. if you dont clean up the gas during the night, the result is catastrope! next day, all the elite will go into group-bathing!
all this, ofcourse made with VETO+Mirage+Joe+Yazoo graphics and mp3 codec sounds in C64 BluRay quality, with music by Rihanna, who donate a special song for SID, that soren put into his BULLSID editor! |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 421 |
Yeah, like this one: Old Farts on a Couch |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
There is every reason to reboot scene with new life unless you want to see Fairlightoxyronensor win every demo show from now until end of days!
No-XS: every scribble is worth release, because C64 is super creative power plant #1 in the world! and who throws out a good idea!?
We have Algorithm, he will code the Rihanna codec before he know it himself! |
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Soren
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547 |
Jan: No BullSID editor... but mine will be mine! Others can use something else. ;) |
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LMan
Registered: Jun 2010
Posts: 79 |
Here's the fabled "Fart editor". I got it from an 80s german print mag (64er or Happy Computer), where its listing was printed as part of a SID sound compo.
http://www.remix64.com/services/files/misc/furzeditor.prg
HAH! Just googled around, is it true that it is by you, Groepaz? :D
I personally typewrote it down in the 80s, and transferred it some time in the late 90s to the pc. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11116 |
i made this :)
(and yeah, what you found out is a funny urban legend that i might or might not have "fueled" at some point =P) |
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LMan
Registered: Jun 2010
Posts: 79 |
No shit. :D
(pun intended).
Well I found your old Geocities page where you claim it as yours.
Shouldn't v1 be added as a release? Who coded that then? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11116 |
only thing i remember is that we swapped with the guys who made the original program *shrug* (the one you linked to also looks a bit different than i remember it....mmmh)
while at it, this is also worth mentioning (another type-in =P) |
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LMan
Registered: Jun 2010
Posts: 79 |
Hahaha the results are rather funky I must say. :D
About the fart editor version I posted, it's the one that was in the 64er mag. It's on my first ever floppy disk along with my own basic programs and a handful of other type-ins. It's situated inbetween other programs from the same sound effect compo:
Might be I added the "MIEF MIEF" label in my childish joy, though. |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
I'm switching from SDI to the Furzeditor. It's (F)art! |
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Laxity
Registered: Aug 2005
Posts: 459 |
You sound like old grumpy farts, that's what I think. :) Every release has it's place. I don't mind fart sids - in fact I find it kind of liberating that people can release anything they like. I'm pretty sure that most of us did some pis poor stuff in the past that was released and would deserve a (gentle) beating in the comments. |
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Trash
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 122 |
I'd say its the coder / compositor / graphician that determines what to release and what not, nobody else!
It can be frustrating to see 10-20 releases by the same author on a daily bases but it still his / hers descision wether it is a release or not...
Andalso, what Stinsen said! |
