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Dwangi
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 129 |
dentro vs onefiledemo
I noticed that there are one category for dentro and one for onefiledemo... so what is the difference?
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 716 |
I don't know who is to answer, but to me "Dentro" is the most stopid word in the demo scene since "Trackmo".
Let's just have this one up for a second. "Trackmo".. The first time i read that word, i think it was supposed to indicate that the current demo was using a track-loader, which probably was something new at that time. To me a demo is a demo, why categorise from the loader!?
Hmm.. categorise.. is that inglisch? ;) |
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Slator
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 273 |
I guess it is the evil work of pc/amiga guys.
They invented more strange stuff like e.g. cracktros.
I am only aware of demos and intros anyways, I am too lazy (and stupid)to learn all that new age ghetto slang stuff .-D
let is belong to where it came from (the dessert)...
just my lame 2 eurocents
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
i agree with HCL that "dentro" is quite a stupid invention of a name/category. however, the "trackmo" term makes sense. demos have started as onefilers mostly and when the people flooded the scene with them they started to gather those onefilers into "megademos". however, trackmos are not an "extension" of the megademo concept, it's something different. megademos not more than collections of many small demos, while a trackmo is just one very big demo. so it makes sense to have an own category for this kind of demos.
PS. yes slator you're right. most stupid categories are inventions of the amiga scene, mostly the bbs scene as i see it. "invitro", "bbstro" or simply "intro"... i never liked the term intro used for demos. for me a 4k demo stays a demo even if it is just 4k. an intro in my understanding is linked to some other product. |
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Mermaid
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 335 |
From http://gopher.quux.org:70/pygfarm/dict.pyg%3F/jargon/DEFINE/den..
"dentro /den'troh/ [{demoscene}] Combination of {demo} (sense 4) and {intro}. Other name mixings include intmo, dentmo etc. and are used usually when the authors are not quite sure whether the program is a {demo} or an {intro}. Special-purpose coinages like wedtro (some member of a group got married), invtro (invitation intro) etc. have also been
sighted."
The way I see it, and from the way I've seen it used in the C64 scene, "dentro" would be used to describe a onefiled demo with consistent design and fluid transitions. Usually has one piece of music throughout the demo (possibly with the addition of a separate tune for the end). One of the main points though: You don't press space to skip parts, the dentro proceeds to the next effect/part on its own.
A dentro is also a onefiledemo...But a onefiledemo isn't always a dentro. Most onefiledemos usually consist of a bunch of demo parts linked together in a seemingly random fashion, new tune in each part, with long pauses while decrunching new parts (and often ugly $0400/$d020/$d021 "effects" while decrunching). You normally have to press space to see the next part.
To use some examples (that you probably haven't seen yet so go download them now if you want): I'd call Oldskool/Creators a onefiledemo and TRIP/Creators a dentro.
As for "new" (hmm...1993?) words being "stopid" and the evil work of Amigasceners and all that, sure... If only people had thought like that before, then our collective vocabulary would still consist of the word "uggh" and a few other grunts and screams. Ah, the good old days.
I also find it strange that the guy who just gave the scene the word "trashmo" should find the words "dentro" and "trackmo" so stupid. |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
"dentro /den'troh/ [{demoscene}] Combination of {demo} (sense 4) and {intro}. Other name mixings include intmo, dentmo etc. and are used usually when the authors are not quite sure whether the program is a {demo} or an {intro}. Special-purpose coinages like wedtro (some member of a group got married), invtro (invitation intro) etc. have also been
sighted."
this fits it best i think.
vanja wrote:
"The way I see it, and from the way I've seen it used in the C64 scene, "dentro" would be used to describe a onefiled demo with consistent design and fluid transitions."
this is how some easter sceners put it, but looking at a lot of amiga "dentros" makes me think that the upper definition fits way better.
the reason why some people believe that the way of transitions and design makes a onefiler a "dentro" is because amiga demos have a more trackmo-like design in general. so if some amiga group makes a smaller demo it still looks some way like a trackmo. however, this is not the meaning of the word dentro, the word dentro is just there to fill the non-existant gap between full size demos and small demos (which btw don't need to be onefile, i've seen several amiga demos which are called "dentro" which are indeed smaller trackmos...). |
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Mermaid
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 335 |
Guess that makes me an easter scener then. Does this mean I have to dress up as a bunny and distribute chocolate eggs to people? I hope not. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11114 |
it would for sure be attracting for some though :o)
other than that....intros are linked to something else, usually a crack (and they are not crackmos...argls...mercy). anything else is simply demo. |
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Mermaid
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 335 |
Anything? Slideshows and music collections too? Just curious. |
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Matt
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 589 |
Quote: I guess it is the evil work of pc/amiga guys.
They invented more strange stuff like e.g. cracktros.
I am only aware of demos and intros anyways, I am too lazy (and stupid)to learn all that new age ghetto slang stuff .-D
let is belong to where it came from (the dessert)...
just my lame 2 eurocents
yeah, agreed!
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
Quote: Anything? Slideshows and music collections too? Just curious.
slideshows and music collections are ofcourse categories which are reasonable to have. slideshows and music collections have way different focus than other demos. |
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White Flame
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 136 |
If you want some way of categorizing these, why not have checkboxes describing the features instead of having 1 exclusive label?
"Check description boxes:
o One-file
o Demo compilation
o Multi-part
o Themed
..." |
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Puterman
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 188 |
Why not just call a demo a demo? |
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QuasaR
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 145 |
A famous person once wrote: A demo is a demo is a demo... |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11114 |
as for graphics or music collections.... well... in the early days a lot of them were even named "music demo #wtf" or "graphics demo #idontcare". some of them even contained better code than other "normal" demos :o) i dont see a big difference between these collections and "normal" demos at all...its just the theme that differs. |
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 716 |
..sorry if i'm late in here, but i just have to reply when i get misunderstood.
I sort of understood that noone would understand that the word 'trashmo' was actually ment to be ironic. People just starts loving the new word and since the demo was also rather *special* it must be a cool word to use..
My suggestion:
I give you a few words to use in the future. Noone can use other words from now!
Intro.
Demo.
Music or Graphics collection..
Yepp, that should to it. Uggh, Uggh!
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
i still don't like the "intro" term, it just causes confusion because all early c64, amiga and whatever demos would be called "intros" nowadays... |
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 716 |
Ok.. now i give you more words :)
Intro: funny program with the purpose to be put 'in front' of another program.
Demo (includes subtitles Demo, 64k-demo, 4k-demo, one-file-demo etc..): stand-alone program, often interesting and nice to watch.
The following words we throw away and never use again:
dentro, trackmo, trashmo, wedtro, as well as all other stopid combinations.
So be it ;). |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Does this mean that the Focus latetro has to be cancelled as well? |
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Seven
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 201 |
if it's just late, no... if it gets canceled, I suppose it's gonna be a canceltro...
One word I'd definately wanna keep: Hoaxmo... Meet Crest =) |
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yago
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 332 |
An Intro is something like a Demo, but it MUST be linked in front of another Production, mainly Games.
A Demo is a graphical and musical Presentation, which does not require User-Input.
Trackmo is a Demo, which can't be filecopied.
I don't know, what a retro,joketro,dentro,hoaxtro,vaportro or a windotro is! (Not to mention Linutro or slashdotro)
If the People like these Categories, there will be sure Releases, but /me sticks to 4k-demos and trackmos!
Zed Yago/K2
PS: I need more Alcohotros!
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Eyeth
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 98 |
Quote: if it's just late, no... if it gets canceled, I suppose it's gonna be a canceltro...
One word I'd definately wanna keep: Hoaxmo... Meet Crest =)
Oooh-
I'm pretty sure that those Crest sceners do read CSDb... But, what the heck, I'll throw in 'vapormo'. :)
If anything, hopefully the Crest savants are egged onto finishing "Meet Crest". :)
Enjoy.
-Todd Elliott |
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Mermaid
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 335 |
HCL: To me, "stopid" is a more stupid word than "Dentro".
And ironic or not, you *did* introduce a new term, despite your proclaimed dislike for any term besides "demo".
Graham wrote:
"megademos not more than collections of many small demos, while a trackmo is just one very big demo. so it makes sense to have an own category for this kind of demos."
Now...if that makes sense, shouldn't this make sense too:
"Onefiledemos are collections of many small demos, while a dentro is just one very big onefiledemo. So it makes sense to have a separate category for this kind of demo." |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
@vanja: so you would call demos like "future shock" or "metal bar" dentros? nopes.
i don't think we need the term "dentro". all demos after all, and the "mega" infront of "mega demo" just describes the size of the demo. anyone wrote a real mega demo yet? it should be about 1000000 times bigger than an average demo :D
and while we're at it: i think all trackmos should be renamed into "sectormos" on c64 because none of the trackmos actually has a trackloader. or maybe we should call 'em "blockmos"? :DDD
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
I know that I've made some writer-blockmos in the past :) |
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Seven
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 201 |
Quote: @vanja: so you would call demos like "future shock" or "metal bar" dentros? nopes.
i don't think we need the term "dentro". all demos after all, and the "mega" infront of "mega demo" just describes the size of the demo. anyone wrote a real mega demo yet? it should be about 1000000 times bigger than an average demo :D
and while we're at it: i think all trackmos should be renamed into "sectormos" on c64 because none of the trackmos actually has a trackloader. or maybe we should call 'em "blockmos"? :DDD
hmm... what about kilo demos instead of mega demos? =) |
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 716 |
Vanja: We're not discussing "stopid" here, besides i don't agree with you. I'm sorry for messing up your dictionary by *introducing* that word, it really wasn't on purpose. It took me many days to code that demo, but just a few seconds to write that word in the note. Do i as well mess things up now, when i introduce the word "aartjlö" ?! or when exactly do i *introduce" ??
Back to the topic.. Again, why is a demo put into another category just because it loads sectors in a special way? Some other demo might toggle $d020 in a very special way, why isn't that enough to have its own category? The track- or sector-loader has nothing to do with the demo, rite?!
Fugeddaboutit.. |
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hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474 |
i dont think it was the loader that caught peoples attention when scoopex released mental hangover and called it a trackmo, what was different was that you didnt hit left mouse button to continue, and the way the demo was put together, how the parts where fitted. and judging by how the term has been used since i have always assumed that trackmo=multifile demo where you dont press space, megademo=multifile demo where you do press space. now bring in wd so they can explain the chillmo concept |
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 716 |
Hollowman: So it's perfectly ok for you that "trackmo" doesn't have anything to do with "track"?
Even my own mistake "trashmo" has more to do with "trash". |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
Quote: Ok.. now i give you more words :)
Intro: funny program with the purpose to be put 'in front' of another program.
Demo (includes subtitles Demo, 64k-demo, 4k-demo, one-file-demo etc..): stand-alone program, often interesting and nice to watch.
The following words we throw away and never use again:
dentro, trackmo, trashmo, wedtro, as well as all other stopid combinations.
So be it ;).
i support hlc, fuck those 16/32 bit computer scene trash terms.
i also use the term "small demos" on my web site to define 1kb demos, music rips, plain logo show files etc. |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
rOuGh wrote:
"Intro: funny program with the purpose to be put 'in front' of another program."
100% agreed. demos are no intros, but demos can have intros :)
rOuGh wrote:
"Demo (includes subtitles Demo, 64k-demo, 4k-demo, one-file-demo etc..): stand-alone program, often interesting and nice to watch."
still i argue that the "trackmo" term makes sense because these demos indeed ARE a category of its own... i also would like a term similar to "64k demo" or "one file demo" but there's no such easy term for it. any suggestions? |
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Pater Pi
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 121 |
sixtyforktro and Onefiltro ? |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
argh! no i want an easy way to tell someone that a demo is a trackmo without using the term "trackmo"... see, people complain that demos are not called demos... and they complain that "trackmo" or "track demo" doesn't actually describe a trackmo. |
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White Flame
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 136 |
multiloadmo
;-) |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Unimpress(space)ivedemos |
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 716 |
Agree with Graham, who in turn agreed with rOuGh, who actually only quoted my own comments.. So in the end; i agree with myself ;).
But yes, there is probably a need to distinguish between 'mega demos' and 'trackmo' and without using the stopid word 'trackmo'. However 'trackmo' sort of referrs to the standard demos of today, it's not very common to do old-styled press-space demos anymore.
Hmm.. i have no good word. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Why bother coming up with a new word? I guess everybody in the demoscene knows the difference between a megademo and a trackmo, even though the last name may not be accurate.
There are many examples of things in real life which are wrongly-named but still accepted by the masses. |
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Nightlord
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 131 |
how about "flowmo" instead of trackmo?...
"spacemo" instead of megademo?...
and to specify size constraints if necessary i can suggest
4K spacemo
64K flowmo
etc...
heh he... i don't know. but this is fun...:) |
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Seven
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 201 |
Quote: Why bother coming up with a new word? I guess everybody in the demoscene knows the difference between a megademo and a trackmo, even though the last name may not be accurate.
There are many examples of things in real life which are wrongly-named but still accepted by the masses.
like... "The Dark Judge" when it really should be "The Writer and Master"? =) |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Well, in fact I do judge a lot, and I am half Surinamese so if you really, really want, you could say that the name TDJ is accurate.
But "Writer And Master" ofcourse says it all. I think I'll change my name back then, after 16 years :P
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