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Death Demon
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 68 |
Careful with your email addresses
I've been poking around the nostalgia sites recently popping my email address up hoping to get in touch with old friends from the scene. Instead, old jealousy has found a way of poking it's ugly head out. I can't believe that jealousy like this still exists after, what, 20 years now?
Quote:
From: lkjlkjljk pablo [lkjlkjljkpablo_797@hotmail.com]
raster boy lives again.... total lack of imagination raster boiiiiiiiiii
Only one person who ever refered to me as that. In fact, he has a web page up right now that refers to me as that. Man, can't believe some people can't let go. Hmm, actually it looks like he's updated it in the last few days. Luckily, Google still has it around. If you're interested, do a google search for +"wanderer" +"the survivors" +"raster boy"
Wanderer Commodore 64 c64 NTSC intro demo fbr pe the survivors ...
... I ripped anything after my beginning months in The Survivors. ... a member of FBR who
I call raster boy (DxxxxDxxxx ... did you change your name from Satan to Wanderer? ...
www.ontarioghosttowns.com/c64/c64.html - 84k - Cached - Similar pages
In any event, as I stated, please be careful. It appears that some people out there are still bent out of shape over scene related issues.
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Jealousy? Anybody can do what you did in your intros. I can't believe you'd make up some ficticious email with a garbage return address. Isn't it kind of suspect you received this email as you went looking for old sceners pages. More likely you read something you didn't like and couldn't let it go.
Sorry but I've no tolerance for drama any more.
http://www.ontarioghosttowns.com/c64
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Death Demon
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 68 |
Look, Wanderer, I'm not really interested in carrying on some misguided grudge you've had for the last 20 years. I have no issues with my place in C64 history as I have consistently received good recognition and praise for my efforts. You shouldn't really have any issues with yours either. Nor should you continue to tie your memories of the scene with my status. It's been almost 20 years now and you just sent a harrassing email to a corporate address through one of our partners. Don't you think you're carrying on a bit much here?
BTW:
Received: from 69.159.0.9 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;
Mon, 07 Feb 2005 19:32:07 GMT
X-Originating-IP: [69.159.0.9]
X-Originating-Email: [lkjlkjljkpablo_797@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: lkjlkjljkpablo_797@hotmail.com
From: "lkjlkjljk pablo" <lkjlkjljkpablo_797@hotmail.com>
nslookup : 9.0.159.69.in-addr.arpa name = Sudbury-HSE-ppp3976540.sympatico.ca |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
You seem to be dillusional. Let me fix this for you.
- I have no qualms about my place in history. Everybody knows who TS and Rampar, etc. were. I made a lot of friends and the years were very good memories.
- As for you, why did you only receive this alleged email just recently if my page has been around for over a year now? It seems coincidental that you claim to have received it at the exact same time you recently resurfaced.
- You already have a proven history of harassing. You tried to mailbomb me from your old Speakeasy account, the IP of the attempts matched the IP of the visitor to the c64 area of the page. Isn't it odd that you used to use Speakeasy, were on the c64? Or do you allege some stranger happened along and decided to subscribe me to these mailing lists.
- Nobody else is claiming to have received emails, only you. And there's a handful of people who I could have contacted if I wanted.
Give it up. I don't use Sympatico, I use Unitz to host the webpage and for my own email. My personal email is mlalonde(at)unitz.ca
I suggest you take your mailbombing and your faked emails and go away Bruce. I told you once, and I won't repeat myself... I have no time for your drama.
This is the last response you will receive, time to turn that ignore feature on.
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Death Demon
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 68 |
That's not really what X-sender is for when hotmail is used. But I just found it somewhat of a coincidence that:
1) I received an email at my work within days of posting it on a 64 site.
2) The email I get taunts me with a nickname only you have used.
3) The email I recieve traces back to the city in which you live.
4) Your website has recently been changed to remove all negative remarks about me.
If it wasn't you, then fine. I'm sorry for jumping to that conclusion. You're pretty much the only person from the C64 scene who has ever bothered me in any way whatsoever and I've never really known/cared why. This post is still a valid warning to old sceners that some odd people still harbor grudges from way back.
As for your mailbombing incident, knowing what I now know about you, I have some inkling that you're simply making it up. While I was on speakeasy, I was on dialup. I had no fixed IP. Furthermore, you just changed your story (see coincidence #4 above). Luckily, Google still has everything cached:
Quote:
Then there was a member of FBR who I call raster boy (DxxxxDxxxx). This guy was one of my idols growing up but he turned into a major egomaniac. He rudely called me up one day and accused me of badmouthing him or ripping his routines. I corrected him and he backed down. Oddly enough I noticed someone from SPEAKEASY (his last known ISP) visited my page. A few minutes later someone tried to subscribe me to a mailing list (and failed). Coincidence? I wonder.
While it really doesn't matter as far as evidence is concerned, I don't think I really ever knew your email address. I was also on dialup back then. I believe I was pointed to your website by Shark/INC who told me he found some negative comments about me on your site. I've also never called you or talked to you in my life. I do know that you got caught ripping code, but you don't deny that. Perhaps you're confusing me with the person who caught you?
In any event, I truly hope this is the last I hear from you. This whole thing is kind of weird and I'm under the impression that you harbor some really strange resentments from way back then. Whatever it is, let it go and get on with your life.
For what it's worth, and if it brings you any comfort, I do think you became a decent programmer later on in the scene, and I take it as a complement that I was one of your idols, despite your more current claims that I couldn't code. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5022 |
children.... go play with lego instead... |
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Death Demon
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 68 |
Oswald : Sorry it looks like that to you. I really just wanted to get the warning out as I know a lot of people are coming out of the cracks these days due to the nostalgia sites. These occurances should serve as a warning to everybody to still be careful. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
All I'm seeing are a bunch of "<Message ignored>" entries :)
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The Arrogance
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 36 |
Come on DD, it's still fun to see people raising their voices in non-important (from todays point of view.. definitely), but delicate and amusing discussions with their so-called best friends from the past.. therefore i cannot see the need for a warning, some people will never change, but revive old rotten stories about this and that whenever they feel like doing so.. just go check these Forums, they're filled with people flaming eachother. Some poeple didn't like eachother back then, so why should they like eachother nowadays ?! Well, of course, mailbombing and stuff like that does not really lead to the assumption that all of us grew up after all! ;) Whatever, just relax and don't take these things too serious...
L8er. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
You cannot see the need for a warning? lol... I'm ever so curious what the poor guy is threatening, but he's been blocked since his second reply. As much as I'd like to unblock and read it, I did say I have a zero tolerance for drama (making personal issues public) so he stays blocked.
And that's all I'm contributing to this thread. |
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The Arrogance
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 36 |
@ Wanderer
Regarding my last post.. what I wrote is meant to be related to the behaviour of the people in general, not about you personally, whatever you did, maybe did or didn't do at all! ;)
About DD's warning, well, it's just saying, that certain occurances should serve as a warning to make people aware of still being careful.
L8er. |
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Death Demon
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 68 |
Arrogance : Heh, yeah, I can imagine the flamewars get fun. But back in the day, things used to go to a whole new level. People had credit cards taken, phones disconnected, and a couple people even got turned in for phreaking. Things can get serious. |
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The Arrogance
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 36 |
True, things can get serious.. and there you got me, just because i did not at all take anything you said above into consideration. Why ?! Easy as that, coz' all you said was never part of the european-scene-behaviour. Of coz' there also were a few Traitors and Backstabbers, but they were the minority and usually didn't get away with it anyway. You guys really had a strange scene in the U.S., a scene where Brothers in Piracy were dealing with eachother in such a poor way. Probably not only that way, but apparently neverthless very regularly. |
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Death Demon
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 68 |
Yup, the American scene was a bit odd that way. You europeans had your wars too, but it pretty much kept itself to scroll text. My group had our two chief importers turned in. At least, we're pretty sure they got turned in. We thought we knew who did it too, but I don't really remember. I never really did anything that would get me in trouble though. Coder and all. So no worries. But that vindictiveness is always in the back of my mind. I did get into a situation where someone prank called me pretty much 24/7. Made my home phone unusable. That was a joy. |
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Crossfire
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 221 |
Oh yeah, constant daily prank calls...a whole lot of fun, had that done to me a few times (meaning, MANY times by a few people...)...no need to start the hassle up again in there, though - since the guilty ones are also present! (They, HOWEVER, grew up and I'm on a friendly basis with them now, haha) |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
I remember when I just started out in the scene, releasing my first little demos etcetera .. I got a call by some guy from Finland who saw my work and was pretty excited about it, and I was very proud to get that call. Only later it turned out that it wasn't a foreigner but a local dude who was set it up it by the guys in WWE (I wasn't a member yet) :(
The irony though is that that guy was a member of TLS, a much more famous group than the group he used for his prank ;Z |
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H.O
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 70 |
I had a few prank calls, but not that many. One of them are mentioned in one of my scroll texts (someone pretending to be from Fairlight, which bugged me quite a bit since I always held Fairlight and Triad in high regard) but none to bad.
I've had worse calls because of my political activities -- and because my name similarity to someone with the opposite political views of mine.
In any way, those kind of phonecalls are never fun but there are different shades of grey.
What I could never understand is people turning other people on the scene in to authorities.
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The Arrogance
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 36 |
Anyone outthere who never made a prank-call himself ?!
Well, this was part of the scene, making fun out of people you didn't like.. and compared to the customs in the U.S., a prank-call is the most harmless of all those evil things people could have done to you. |
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Death Demon
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 68 |
I never made any prank calls or did anything massively underhanded. I did make a couple of war demos though. One was aimed at the dude who turned in Ninja/Infernal. It was a big animation. Kinda funny. The other was a full fledged videogame along the lines of Hogan's Alley. Neither was released under my name though. Funny thing is that the Hogan's Alley game was "cracked" by some group and released. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL |
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H.O
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 70 |
No prank calls from my side. Cant even recall doing any such thing as a small kid, before my years in the scene.
Closest thing I did was writing some less then friendly scroll texts.
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
I had two calls. One from Death Demon, who claimed I had, "bad mouthed him". Another was from the group INC. The three hour time difference did not help, especially as I was sleeping for one of the calls.
I don't know why it was more popular in the USA than Europe, I guess the USA scene was more competetive with groups struggling to grab contacts.
I've been on conference calls where people called up other groups and had arguments. I remember Public Enemy vs another group. I stayed quiet the entire call as I didn't see much point in making, "your momma..." jokes. As a programmer I had no beefs with another import group. Coding was fun for me, the importers could argue over who released what first and who stole whose contacts.
Sometimes people said things about me in their scrollers, or on BBS's but it goes with the territory. For every 9 people who tell you they love your work, there will always be that 1 who doesn't.
In any event, I never prank called anyone. When you take the scene and let it flow into your personal life and call someone at their home, that's going too far, in my opinion. |
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Death Demon
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 68 |
And the unfounded accusations continue. Good to see certain things don't change. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
I'm not going to enter into a debate.
It wasn't a prank call, but you did phone me at my parents to complain that I was saying things about you. I explained the situation, you backed down.
I have a very clear memory of those years. I can't prove it, so it is unfounded, but we both know the truth.
My point is, you went real life. Much the same way you took your personal problem to a message forum here where it doesn't belong.
Guess who's going back on ignore now... :) |
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Death Demon
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 68 |
Don't remember the phone call or hearing about you talking badly about me. Although, given your more modern day behavior, I suppose it's not out of the question. And calling you to discuss the issue is within the realm of how I would handle a personal problem like that.
As for the problem with the email, this is precisely where it should go. You've gotten stranger and stranger as the years have gone on. I honestly don't know where this grudge of yours started. But now, 20 years later, you spoofed an email to me, then accused me of signing you up to a mail list, then changed that story to me mailbombing you from my IP, and now you've made a bunch of negative comments about my coding. Dude, why? I didn't even know who you were in the scene until I heard about you ripping code. I don't even think you made it into the upper echelon until after I had left the scene. So what beef could you POSSIBLY have with me that would make you do so many weird things?
Was this the issue? Something I pointed out on my GREAT FBR website when it was up? A comment on a graphic that didn't look so hot? If so, I'm sorry I was so blunt. You appear to have the same opinion of it though:
Quote:
(I joined them for a short while). Fine Young Cannibals music, a bouncing bottom scroller and one of the worst looking logos you ever did see. Death Demon of FBR pointed this out on his sad FBR page, but if he doesn't mention my logos I won't mention his lack of programming style and love of rasters.
Again, I think it's very strange that whatever this issue you have with me has carried on for ~20 years now. I never knew you in the scene as you weren't part of it at the time I was active. And afterwards, only a few key people knew how to get ahold of me. You weren't one of them. So we really never could have even crossed paths. I know I held/hold a certain status and level of respect as one of the early coders with Changeling and I being the only ones capable of that level of coding at the time. Is that why I'm a target of your wrath?
It's obvious by the quickness with which you found/responded to this post, as well as the level of vitriolic speech, that you were upset I exposed your activities here. My advice to you is that if you don't wish to be exposed for weird behavior, don't engage in it in the first place. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
>Don't remember the phone call or hearing about you talking >badly about me.
If you don't remember, I'd keep that in mind before using the words 'unfounded' next time :)
>And calling you to discuss the issue is within the realm
>of how I would handle a personal problem like that.
You were quite rude in how you handled it, though I don't remember the conversation verbatim.
>You've gotten stranger and stranger as the years have gone
>on.
A matter of opinion.
>But now, 20 years later, you spoofed an email to me, then
>accused me of signing you up to a mail list, then changed
>that story to me mailbombing you from my IP, and now
There has not bee a change in the story. Your claim of an email is unfounded. And by mailbombing I'm referring to the failed attempt of signing up to various mailing lists. A visitor from speakeasy was logged visiting the c64 section of the webpage. Then 30 seconds later confirmation emails made their way to me from speakeasy, for various mailing list attempts. I know of only one c64 user from Speakeasy (past tense) who would have a grudge.
>you've made a bunch of negative comments about my coding.
>Dude, why?
I call them opinions. As for why, you come on here making unfounded accusations about me, what do you want, a bouqet of flowers and a steak dinner?
>I didn't even know who you were in the scene until I heard
>about you ripping code. I don't even think you made it
>into the upper echelon until after I had left the scene.
Another matter of opinion. 1987-88 was the time I was active on the scene, which was about the time FBR was fading into obscurity.
>So what beef could you POSSIBLY have with me that would
>make you do so many weird things?
I don't have a beef with you. You're dillusional. I'm entitled to my opinion that you were a programmer who focused on rasters. Get over it.
>Was this the issue? Something I pointed out on my GREAT
>FBR website when it was up? A comment on a graphic that
>didn't look so hot?
The issue is quite simple, and you're not listening. You came out of nowhere accusing me of mailing you, when in fact I did not. And here you are grasping at straws trying to twist the situation around.
>the early coders with Changeling and I being the only ones >capable of that level of coding at the time. Is that why
>I'm a target of your wrath?
My wrath, I like your writing skills.
>It's obvious by the quickness with which you
>found/responded to this post, as well as the level of
>vitriolic speech, that you were upset I exposed your
>activities here.
So now you're not only grasping at straws, you're psychoanalyzing me. I'm upset about the fact you made up some email from some bogus email address, using an ISP I don't use, making unfounded claims, and using the pretense that it's some 20 year old grudge.
>My advice to you is that if you don't wish to be exposed
>for weird behavior, don't engage in it in the first place.
My advice for you... if you don't like someone, don't sign them up to mailing lists, don't make accusations, don't fake emails and most of all if you can't even remember if you've done something or not, don't claim that you haven't.
Before you can claim there is some grudge, you have to establish I've done something. And we're still at square one, which is you faking an email. Once you prove I've sent you an email, only then can you try to twist things around into being some sort of grudge.
Honestly, it's been almost a week now, let it go... I'm sure the people on CSDB don't care what your personal issues are with me.
Cheers
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 675 |
maybe its time you two call each other? |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
I don't see the purpose in a phone call.
Whatever happened 17 years ago is dead and buried IMO.
I'm not subscribing people to lists, faking emails or venting on a public forum about an email I allegedly received. And I certainly am not implying the speed in which a person responds has anything to do with being "exposed".
Maybe he feels it has something to do with the fact I said all he could code was rasters. In any event, this has no place on CSDB. No place at all.
It would take more than a phone call, it would take a psychiatrist to fix this one.
http://www.ontarioghosttowns.com/c64
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
I have a hard time understanding what this discussion is doing here and not in private mails to eachother. It's not like anybody is going to side with either one of you. But I must state that the posts are both embarrasing and amusing, so for Gods sake, keep on. |
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Death Demon
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 68 |
Twoflower : The discussion belongs here because of the original post. I'm a bit perplexed at the rest of the discussion, to be quite honest. But I don't really care either. I believe the point has been made. Wanderer's continued abusive remarks pretty much seal the deal. As does this quote:
Quote:
Once you prove I've sent you an email, only then can you try to twist things around into being some sort of grudge.
Either there's nothing to prove or Wanderer sent the email. Instead, he's trying to turn this into some strange game and I don't really care. Email came from Sudbury, uses nicknames only he used, his argumentation on the subject really hasn't been that he didn't write it but rather that I'm faking it, and I've been accused of everything from mailbombing to mailing list signups (with the story changing in between). I'm done.
In any event, next time you guys think about posting your email address out there to get in touch with old friends, realize that you're opening yourself up to strange people like this suddenly deciding to reach out and touch you.
Sorry this turned into some big strange soap opera. It was really just meant as a warning. But perhaps the soap opera serves as a better warning?
Last comment to Wanderer:
I don't know you. Never did. I have no idea why you think I did and think that there's some *thing* between us. If there is, it's one way. Simply do not email me any longer from ANY account ANYWHERE. I do not wish to have ANY relationship with you, online or otherwise.
If you really didn't do it, and it's just a strange coincidence that it came from your home town using your nickname for me and all of your conflicting posting above is just random rantings brought out of a defensive posture, then so be it. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
>The discussion belongs here because of the original post.
IT DOESN'T BELONG HERE AT ALL. This is the point I think the other posters have already made.
>Wanderer's continued abusive remarks pretty much seal the
>deal.
Unfortunately you are being dillusional again. I've been rational and calm. Abusive? That's what we call "reaching" in my profession. There you go reaching.
>Either there's nothing to prove or Wanderer sent the
>email.
And there is nothing to prove because you made it up with Notepad or some editor. You're reaching again.
>Instead, he's trying to turn this into some strange game
>and I don't really care.
Apparently you care enough not to let the issue drop.
>Email came from Sudbury,
So you claim.
>uses nicknames only he used
I think the email address was 'pablo' or something? *rolls eyes* yes Bruce. I went by Pablo in another lifetime on the c64. If you're referring to 'raster boy', you yourself admit going to the webpage and reading the comment. I believe you were upset by what you read, made up this so called email, and came on here to badmouth me. Unfortunately you goofed up on the ISP and you had to guess what my email address would be. Could you not do better than "pablo"? Who is Pablo lol.
>his argumentation on the subject really hasn't been that
>he didn't write it but rather that I'm faking it
Why argue? You need to prove your allegation, I don't need to defend it. I've no clue what you're talking about.
>and I've been accused of everything from mailbombing to
>mailing list signups (with the story changing in between).
Again your comprehension skills are lacking. The story has remained the same from almost a year ago as printed on my page. You used Speakeasy. I had a visitor from Speakeasy visit the page, seconds later the same IP was used to attempt to sign me up for mailing lists (which in itself is a mailbomb attempt, mass subscription signups). I think if you lay off the Xanax and Paxil you will realize the mailing list *was* the mail bombing attempt.
>I'm done.
I sure hope so.
>I have no idea why you think I did and think that there's
>some *thing* between us.
There you go again with your reaching fantasy. Are you receiving psychological help? Something between us? Here comes the dramatics.
>Simply do not email me any longer from ANY account
>ANYWHERE. I do not wish to have ANY relationship with you,
>online or otherwise.
ROTFLMAO
*rolls eyes again* You sound like a woman being stalked by a bitter ex-boyfriend. How much more dramatical can you get? You do not wish to have a relationship? That is the saddest thing I've heard you say yet. Now will you let the issue go?
>If you really didn't do it, and it's just a strange
>coincidence that (I FORGED IT) it came from your home town >using your nickname (I GRABBED FROM YOUR WANDERER WEBPAGE)
>for me and all of your conflicting posting above (WHICH
>THERE IS NO CONFLICTION, I'M TOO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND A
>POINT WHICH HAS BEEN CLARIFIED TWICE NOW) is just random
>rantings brought out of a defensive posture, then so be it.
*yawn*
You've made your point, over and over and over.
I don't own this issue you have with me.
I have asked you repeatedly to drop the matter, you won't.
You had the choice to take it to email, you didn't.
Move on Bruce, please... you're embarassing yourself. You can have the last word...
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Death Demon
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 68 |
Quote:
I think if you lay off the Xanax and Paxil you will realize the mailing list *was* the mail bombing attempt.
Ahh, I see. So somehow my IP matching the IP of someone who mailbombed you is the same thing as someone signing you up for a mailing list minutes after someone with an IP tracing to an ISP that I use is the same thing? I noticed that you just changed the story again and said that it was someone from the same IP who tried to sign you up to the mailing list when the original claim (on your website) was that it was that you just got signed up and thought it a coincidence that I visited your web page a few minutes before. I understand. So that's just something you completely made up then. At least I don't have to bother defending myself against that accusation any longer.
As for the mail issue, I have no idea why you keep saying the things you've said. I guess you're not terribly familiar with the internet. The mail address can easily be verified as being valid, and if it were truly necessary, the message ID could be confirmed with Microsoft's abuse department. I don't personally care to take it that far and I'm sure you don't want me to either.
Message-ID: <BAY16-F570AD01F74B1AF87977F7B4730@phx.gbl>
Received: from 69.159.0.9 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;
Mon, 07 Feb 2005 19:32:07 GMT
Information readily available in the message header. Microsoft does that to prevent people from doing what you just tried to. I haven't goofed up a thing. This is what I got. And it tracks directly to your home town. I don't care what ISP you say you use or don't use. All I care about is that you leave me alone. I don't want to have ANY connection to you. You DO make me feel like you're some strange internet stalker. |
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The Shark-INC
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 24 |
Wanderer certainly does have a history for doing things like this, and the message Death Demon posted matches the types of emails that Wanderer has sent me. Anyone that Mike (Wanderer) had a problem with 15 years ago, Mike sends childish emails even to this day. Man, talk about holding a grudge. hehe...
Mike, do the world a favor... Reestablish a relationship with your psychologist and get off the Canadian social welfare. Start doing something productive with your life. Whether that means going back to college (yes, we know that you dropped out) or holding at least a part time job. Clearly, Mike, you have too much time on your hands.
The Shark |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
This just gets better and better.
First Bruce has to lie about receiving emails and uses a fake return address because he doesn't know my real address. But now it's just pathetic that he had to go and find an ex-crack addict to also claim they received email from me.
Yet I have to admit, I've been expecting Dave Greiman (aka Slanty Eyed Shark) to come along all week. I knew Bruce would be trying another approach, having lost his argument and being humiliated. And look who joined just TODAY and has made ONE post only? Sharky. I wonder, hrmm... did Bruce go running for support? You know he did :)
Sadly, I think Bruce could have done better than a guy who's been in an Arizona jail for assaulting his ex girlfriend with a frying pan spatula. Yes Dave, we know all about that.
Sayyyy Dave, where do you come up with college? Try University, three years. Is that what your crackpipe is telling you now? lol lol. I'm listed on the alumni page at Laurentian University. *SPANK*
Oh say Dave, didn't you once tell us on a conference call that your mother also smoked the crack rock? It would explain those horribly crooked eyes of yours.
Look for yourself, and nice shirt dude.
www.ontarioghosttowns.com/shark.jpg
By the way I must commend you on your wonderful INC webpage. All of those dead links and webpage skills of a child make INC go down in history as a joke. It's an embarassment to the scene.
Poor Bruce, if a crack addict and woman abuser is the best he can hope for... I win yet again. Oh well, another user to add to the ignore list. *plonk* |
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Death Demon
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 68 |
Wow, that was an interesting/revealing outburst. Mike, I don't know what you're trying to get at. I'm not sure why you are so bent on not accepting responsibility for the email. You honestly think that it wasn't trackable so there's a chance people will think I could be making this up. It's as if you didn't realize that the message ID was unique and can be verified through Microsoft's abuse department. It's also as if you didn't realize that the email address can also be verified as being valid by going through the mail server or any of a number of websites that verify email addresses by communicating with the email server. Using Hotmail, Yahoo, or any other commercial email service is not anonymous. Due to SPAM related legislation in the U.S., as well as costs associated, they have been implementing quite a bit of tracking safeguards.
As for what you just said about The Shark, Arizona doesn't have any information about him being in jail for hitting his girlfriend. http://az.gov/webapp/offender/searchName.do
Most states have enacted a sexual offender statute in which assaults of this nature are published publicly so that people can be aware of the risks associating with specific people. Why throw out accusations like that?
If it were THAT important to you for people to not think of you as some strange internet stalker type of person who still sends out email based on grudges you have with people you never knew but idolized, you simply should have not sent me email. There was absolutely no reason. You and I have zero contact. None. I didn't even know you back in the scene. So why bother? Did you think I wouldn't be able to trace it and figure it out? Did it give you some strange sort of high to think that you might be able to get away with insulting me anonymously through email and I'd always sit there wondering who it was? I didn't really care. The only reason I posted here was to let people know that they should be careful with posting up personal information because there's people out there that still hold grudges.
After reading your rant on The Shark, I'm a little bit more worried then I was. That's some pretty strong hatred for someone who you have no contact with. The scene's been over for us for 15 years or so. Were you REALLY that strongly impacted? |
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OEP
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 60 |
I feel the same way towards Sharky! :P
Just kidding, Dave
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Cripes, I gave Bruce the last word and he still continues to post lmao. Although I can't read what he's posted for he's blocked (both of them actually) it does show he's one persistant little bastard. :)
I guess he thought running and finding one of the largest lamers on the C64, who's opinion to me means zilch, would add fuel to his fire.
Onc more time Bruce, LET IT GO... when you resort to bringing lamers to this site, you know you've lost the argument.
Cheers
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The Shark-INC
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 24 |
Mike,
I must agree with Death Demon. Your behavior is disturbing, and I am thankful that miles separate us as I see you as a "scene stalker" so obsessed with watching me that I'd have to set up a restraining order against you if you were in the USA.
Your desperate accusations against me suggest that both Bruce and myself are telling the truth, and it is you who struggles to live in reality. I am going to call your bluff. If anyone here can post solid evidence that I was ever arrested, used illegal drugs, or beat an ex-girlfriend, I will donate $1000 to a charitable cause of the finder's choice. Prison/jail records are public record in the USA so this would be a start. Even a legitimate newspaper article would be sufficient. Mike already posted my real name, so that should be enough for people to start a search.
Now, if no one can find such information, then you must be the one to pay a fee. Since I know you are not doing well financially, we'll assign you a task instead. Your penalty would be for you to go back to all your crooked raster, seizure inducing intros and look at them. After about 30 minutes of this torture, we then want you to fix the intros (or preferably delete them).
The time limit for this challenge is one month from now.
Mike, this is all really silly. Your childish, fake emails... your make-believe stories... you setting up a fake "gay" profile about me here at CSDb (yes, it has been fixed already). I can't believe I scarred you so bad back in the late 80s when I exposed you for being a ripper. It was nothing personal -- I only told the truth.
I don't plan on posting much in regards to this thread as the people here are tired of this already, and just like a child, I know you love the attention from your misdeeds. I'll say it again, and I mean this in all sincerity for your own mental health: please seek professional help or read a self-help book. It's time to move on in your life.
The Shark
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Final Score
Death Demon: 0
Sharky: 0
Wanderer: 1
Both fought bravely, both failed miserably. Quick, better call in JNP next :)
By the way, all I'm seeing on this end is "<Message ignored>". I gave you both a fair chance to try and prove this ridiculous claim I sent Bruce an email. All this over one single email. Really, Death Demon, in the larger scale of things to whine about in life, let this one go. You lost. Dave lost 15 years ago.
Stop shaming yourself :)
Thia is an amazing piece of HTML work, 404 forever
http://www.dhp.com/~shark/inc64/
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Crossfire
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 221 |
Wanderer: Don't really wanna get mixed up in this, but I just wonder how you can judge who is winning and who is losing, when you - as you claim - have all messages ignored? Like I said, I don't wanna get tangled up in this, but this question has puzzled me for a couple of days now. ..that and because I've grown quite curious whether or not you accept The Sharks challenge :-) |
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Death Demon
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 68 |
I'm more amazed at the thought that there could be a winner. Just being included in a conversation with this person whom I never knew having to defend myself against lies which have self-consistency issues is somewhat of a loss. Having a verifiable email address called fake, having a valid message ID from hotmail being called fake, tracing the thing down to his home city being called fake. I absolutely did not know this guy in the scene. He was never really part of the "Elite" scene during my time. I know he idolized me, because he stated as such on his website. I know he also lost it with me at some point. What I don't know is why someone I don't know decides to taunt me in email attempting to be anonymous some 15-20 years after the scene has gone.
And now the guy goes crazy on Shark with statements that can be verified as true/false since they are part of the public record. MORE lies. WTF is going on?
Seriously some psycho crap. I guess I'm glad this is on csdb now. Chronicling the psychotic behaviors of one of the sceners for historical purposes. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Quote: Wanderer: Don't really wanna get mixed up in this, but I just wonder how you can judge who is winning and who is losing, when you - as you claim - have all messages ignored? Like I said, I don't wanna get tangled up in this, but this question has puzzled me for a couple of days now. ..that and because I've grown quite curious whether or not you accept The Sharks challenge :-)
Hey no problem :) You're entitled to ask a question.
I gave them both a fair chance to prove the dillusion I had sent them emails. They failed. I believe it was a hoax orchestrated by D.D., there never was an email from me. If he could have at least pegged my proper ISP, I could see why he feels I've wronged him. Yet 39 messages and one week later, he's still talking out of his ass. The entire thread is not suitable for CSDB, it's his personal issue not mine. So now they are blocked - but I did read the initial post from each.
Bruce needs to let go, I see he's still trying to flog a dead horse even though I'm no longer reading his drivel. All I see is <message ignored>.
As for a challenge, I don't know anything about one. If it came from Shark, the challenge is meaningless. He had a decade to develop some talent, while I was coding. He has no talent, never did, and never will. I always felt he was the #1 lamer on the scene and I won't move on that issue. I will let my 200+ demos speak for themselves. That's the only challenge I could imagine he'd come up with.
I was once voted #1 programmer in Mamba magazine (c64 mag), published in Compute! magazine (and paid) and a few businesses used my programming. I am content to fall back upon those laurels. Shark has his crumbling INC webpage with dead links and lame graphics. Death Demon has some demos to fall back upon, and he was good for his era. I'll grant him that, but he's a has been, and shouldn't make up lies about other people.
Sharky claims to have an ego but sadly it takes something to be egotistical about. He was a joke on the c64 :) Trailing behind him is his buddy JNP, the *cough* inventor *cough* of the colour to colour technique of scrolling colours through text.
I tried to take the high road and let them have the last word but they both seem to have more and more to say. At least I held my own and didn't run to some lamer for backup the way DD did. In fact, I'd hardly call Shark ammunition in an argument. What a loss of credibility, it backfired on him.
So a week of failing to prove your point and running to get help, equates to a loss in my opinion. A lamer with a dead website and nothing behind him to speak for his skills, is another loss. My 200+ demos will speak for themselves.
I rest my case... and once again, they can have the last word.
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Death Demon
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 68 |
Quote:
Death Demon has some demos to fall back upon, and he was good for his era. I'll grant him that, but he's a has been, and shouldn't make up lies about other people.
Yes, I was good for my era. Some would take that recognition a step further. From there I moved on to more advanced graphics to the point where I started inventing advanced algorithms for 3D graphics. This got me into Silicon Graphics as a hardware design engineer. From there I moved to 3DFX and eventually Nvidia where I am now. Since defocussing my graphics efforts on the C64 demo scene, I have shipped well over 60 million graphics processors (you probably have one of my designs in your computer right now) that a new generation of graphics programmers are learning how to use/manipulate and have several patents ranging from computer automated silicon verification to advanced temporal filtering. A has been? ;)
In any event, is that what your email was about? You want to be thought of as having been better than me, by being "on top", so I'm now "raster boy"? I earned my place in C64 history along with Changeling. Together, we created something I'm really proud of both in terms of FBR and the North American demo scene. A lot of programmers were both inspired and educated by us and that makes me very proud. But that time is over. And all we can do is live with the judgement of history. That judgement doesn't change by sending email to people and resorting to name calling.
I've posted up verifiable information. You've posted unverifiable accusations and childish attacks. This is the end. I've wasted enough time with someone I neither knew, nor care to. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Death Demon
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 31 <Message ignored>
Whatever he said, the last word has been spoken.
The entertainment value of the entire situation was priceless though *giggle*
See Ya!
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RaveGuru
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 41 |
Wooah! Now I remember what kept me calling the boards for all these years. Can't remember last time I saw a flamewar this entertaining though. Hats off and applause! |
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Puterman
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 188 |
Yes, very "entertaining".
Here's a short summary for those who don't feel like wading through hundreds of lines of childishness:
- You smoke crack!
- No, _you_ smoke crack, and you live in a trailer!
- No way, you college dropout!
- College dropout? I'm a fucking professor!
- No, you're not, but I earn $666666666 a year!
- Fuck you, crack smoker, I'm ignoring you!
- Hey, who's the fucking crack smoker?
- Haha, I can't hear what you're saying!
- Because you smoke too much crack?
- Still can't hear you!
- Stop smoking so much crack, godammit! |
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hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474 |
thats a crappy summary, you left out the best bits about having crooked eyes and performing physical abuse with a spatula |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
hollowman: I laughed my ass off at your reply.
I have to concur, the summary of events is horribly inaccurate. I'm not a professor, I'm a social worker.
It was refreshing entertainment though but alas, all good things must come to an end. If this thread makes 50 posts it will be a sad day indeed :D
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Death Demon
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 68 |
This is in no way a flame war. I have not flamed Wanderer yet as I've been trying to keep this a dignified warning to old friends out there.
In any event, despite Wanderer having said he was done and would no longer be bothering me, I'm not getting private messages from him on this forum as well. I can't respond because he has me on ignore, so I'll simply post it here.
Quote:
Message sent by: Wanderer on 2005-02-15 03:37:06.606952+01
You check in every 10 minutes, how much of a life are you lacking? Oh wait... you're the same guy who spent a week arguing over ONE email. lol... truly lame. Bye Bruce
I told you once, I'll tell you again. I don't know you. I don't want to know you. Leave me alone. No more emails, no private messages, no chatting, NOTHING. I have no idea why you have this obsession with me. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Are you STILL still warnin... umm whining Bruce?
Six days and 2000 messages later and you still have more to say.
Just keep telling yourself, it's only a computer, nobody on here cares about your personal issues with me, and yes Bruce, you CAN block people on here when they upset your feelings. Everyone receives a private message once in a while, I've even had some less than flattering ones. But I don't whine on a message board for a week.
Seriously, let it go or get psychological help on this one. You had the last word twice and still have more to say.
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Death Demon
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 68 |
Great. So some lamer from 20 years ago refuses to grow up or let go of obsessions with people in the elite scene and now I have to choose to block them in order to not be exposed to their active and extremely high levels of retardation. Joy. Good thing you're counseling children on how to act. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Enough already, sheesh.
You made a huge public spectacle of the fact you claim you received an email.
We won't get into the fact the message ID is meaningless. You simply changed the IP address. The IP address resolves to Sudbury *but* it's used by people as far away as 300 kilometres away. That IP scope (as proven to me by going on IRC and resolving IP's of people living as far away as Toronto and Barrie, 4 hours away) belongs not only to my city but many other cities. Sudbury is where the central servers happen to be (Check it on Arin.net)
We also won't get into the fact that I could have used Proxify, The Cloak or a variety of other anonymous services. And yes, some do support HTTPS. So you'd have us believe I chose to use a direct connection?
There's also proxy servers like marketscore.com, a well known proxy. But alas I used my own ISP you claim....
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 69.60.224.10
69.60.224.11
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Tuesday, February 15, 2005 12:47:43
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Wednesday, February 16, 2005 12:47:4
Note the DNS servers, note the host of my webpage, note the IP of any mail I send out. The computer goes to a router so it's in the 192.x.x.x class.
You lied... plain and simple.
While it is true I idolized FBR/Abyss before I knew how to program, it was you who chose to call me at my own home and bitch about something you allege I said. I let that go.
I sent you a private message and you whined some more publically. All of this labelled as a 'warning' but the tone and changing content of your messages says it's more than that.
You tried the obsession and jealousy angles and failed there, you tried Slanty Eyed Shark (bad move there) and failed... and now you're trying the "Don't talk to me, I don't want a relationship with you." approach.
You're not my type Bruce. I'm married but thanks for thinking of me in that light.
You know you DID have a choice. You could have deleted this so called mail if you really did receive it and drop the matter. But look at all you have to say. Evidentally you had a lot of issues you needed to get out, and it shows. I guess I'd have faked an email as well if only to present an opportunity to badmouth me as well.
What was the trigger I wonder? Could it have been your visit to my website? You did after all, sign me up to mailing lists. It makes sense, now I'm seeing a better picture of how you work.
Your glory days were over by the time I came along and I coded circles around your rasters. That in itself is good enough for me. I don't understand why you still have more and more to say though... I gave you final say twice now.
When will you be good and finished? I will go get popcorn and wait for the grand finale :)
p.s. Bruce, it wasn't an 'elite' scene. It was a bunch of 16 year old kids in front of a computer. There was nothing elite about it.
So for the sake of all... I will give you the last word a THIRD time around. Take an hour, compose your thoughts and vent as much as you want. But when it's all said and done, please, for the sake of people who don't care about your personal issues, let it be your last. Even if someone else posts after you... let it go... you're a big boy, I know you can do it.
I'll await your next diatribe.... make it good.
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Death Demon
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 68 |
I'm very sorry that the scene has weighed so heavily on your life that you're filled with such great levels of animosity towards myself and others as has been displayed above. You should be proud of your own accomplishments without having to be compared to me by yourself or any other person.
I've spoken with others about this phone call you received and I'm pretty sure that I never called you. I think that someone played a prank on you back then pretending to be me on the phone. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Jealousy angle... check.
Obsession angle.. check.
Animosity angle.. check.
*munches popcorn*
>I'm very sorry that the scene has weighed so heavily on
>your life that you're filled with such great levels of
>animosity towards myself and others as has been displayed
>above.
Dude, I said I once looked up to FBR, I didn't say that I drove around with a miniature statue of FBR on my dashboard in praise. There is a huge difference between looking up to a group and being envious of them. As you disappeared into oblivion, I was becoming a well known name. I don't understand how you feel I'm envious at all. I have seen your work and seen my own, and I know mine was much better. This has NEVER been an issue of comparing talent - don't try to make it one now. Don't even try that angle... that would be sad.
Why is it just you then? Out of all the programmers in the USA, why only you? I'll tell you why... you called me up complaining about something, made a comment about my FBR intro and tried subscribing me to mailing lists. You're passive aggressive, and for who knows what reason, you can't stand me (or my programming).
> You should be proud of your own accomplishments without
>having to be compared to me by yourself or any other
>person.
Ahh but you see Bruce I've always been proud of my work. I'm not "comparing" it at all. Your demos cannot compare to mine, your whole argument is falling on its face. I simply said I looked up to FBR when I was learning to code. Once I learned machine code, I stopped looking up to others and started admiring my own work :)
Hell, I used to have a letter from Streetkiller handwritten when he was learning to code and looked up to me. It had little happy faces and such all over it. People idolized me, it goes with the territory. But for some reason, you seem to be envious of something I have done.
I must repeat myself again... this is about you, not me.
You claimed I mailed you. I did not.
I posted many reasons how I could have used an anonymous means and you failed to address that. You fail to address it's not my ISP.
My ONLY issue with you is you are lying. Period.
You have introduced comparing programming and used phrases such as 'envious'. I believe this answers the question of why you faked the mail. It also explains the mailing list attempt.
>I've spoken with others about this phone call you received
>and I'm pretty sure that I never called you. I think that
>someone played a prank on you back then pretending to be
>me on the phone.
Nope because I followed that up with an mail to you on the BBS and you replied. I can't recall what you said though, it was years ago. I doubt that you spoke with others, I mean what would you ask them? "Hey did I ever phone Wanderer?", how would they know? Seriously. Did you dictate every phone call you ever made to your friends.
You were a good programmer for the era. Your time was up.
I was a good programmer for my era. My time was up (routines were becoming more complex).
The difference between us is, I let go of those years ages ago. For you to be going on, soon to be, 60 messages of horseshit is insane.
Nobody on here cares about the ONE mail you *claim* to have received. Now go call your theraphist. I will stop posting replies, in an effort to aid you in your getting better.
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The Shark-INC
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 24 |
Hi Wanderer (Mike),
I checked the alumni page at Laurentian University as you suggested, and no "Mike Lalonde" or "Michael Lalonde" was listed. Funny, though, because nearly anyone can be listed at that web page. To prove this point, Rob Hubbard (majoring in SID Composing) was is registered into the alumni search database. Search for him...
Due to all the Mike Lalondes in Sudbury (Canada), we are going to need to see some hard proof that you graduated from that college. Can you help us out here? For example, do you have an alumni card that you could scan in and put on a web page somewhere? The longer you take with this, the more suspicious we'll become.
Oh, and how's the research coming along on my first challenge to you? It is important that for your credibility that you prove those allegations about me if you expect people here to start believing you. Further, you claim to be ignoring me and Death Demon yet you keep responding. A member here even posted how inconsistent that was (much like many of your other claims).
You are a compulsive liar and obsessed with harassing Death Demon and I. Contacting work addresses, home email address, posting fake messages, inventing fake profiles, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if you have been also harassing the Stormbringer these years. Unlike you, he went on to a successful programming career because he had talent and smarts.
The C64 scene has matured since the 80s. Too bad Wandered hasn't caught up.
The Shark |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
I think it's kinda funny that in a thread with the name 'Careful with your email addresses' somebody uses his email address as his username ;)
Now, lemme go grab more popcorn, this is kinda nice. |
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Crossfire
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 221 |
Hehe, it's kinda nice seing an argument this long, and I'm not even involved in it *LOL* |
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H.O
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 70 |
This is just getting more and more amusing. So, should we form fan-clubs and start cheering for which ever side we believe in now? :)
(To be more serious; the thread is both amusing and scaring to read at the same time. I think most of us has made up our mind on which side we believe though, so I dont think further discussions will sway anyones opinion -- in case that is important to anyone)
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
>This is just getting more and more amusing. So, should we
>form fan-clubs and start cheering for which ever side we
>believe in now? :)
I'm only here posting for the free George Foreman grill. I was told that after 50 posts, that sucker was mine.
I was stiffed but I remain optimistic that when we reach 70 posts, I'll be eligible for this...
http://www.wonderfulbuys.ca/flowbee_haircutting_system/flowhair..
I want that sucker something fierce... free haircuts for all. :)
=====================
>To be more serious; the thread is both amusing and scaring
>to read at the same time. I think most of us has made up
>our mind on which side we believe though, so I dont think
>further discussions will sway anyones opinion -- in case
>that is important to anyone
You hit the nail on the head my friend. I don't think this was ever about 'one to one' communication. I think it was about what the 'public' thought.
Pass me the popcorn. |
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Core
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 4 |
This reminds me of the old ESI/UCF war. :) Lets put all this in a C64 war demo. :)
I wasted an hour reading this stuff. I guess I don't have a life. :)
Greets to Wanderer, Death Demon, and Shark!
Latez,
Mike |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11129 |
i doubt any of those discussing is even able to create a c64 war demo these days.
now shut up and prove me wrong
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
To be honest, I couldn't make a smooth scroller to save my life. I forgot how to make an interrupt. I know its $0314 and $0315 but I forget the location you move to shift the screen to the left, and the values to set to make the interrupt.
I am proud to say I could turn the screen black though.
LDA #$00
STA $d020
STA $d021
In all seriousness, what good would a war demo do? What good would ANY demo do? There are simply not enough people around on the scene to justify making any demos, in my opinion.
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iopop
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 317 |
so, the 118 demos from 2004s, 123 from 2003 and 109 from 2002 was just made in vain? :)
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Well, he convinced me. I stopped working on my new demo right away .. too bad, because it really would have been something special, it had sprites and everything! ;Z |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
A movie producer who produces a movie which plays to empty theatres, has not made his movie in vain if it has brought him enjoyment. But it's a pity there aren't people around to watch it.
The c64 scene is dead and has been for a while now. Releasing a demo is utterly pointless, in North America anyways. Recracking old games and releasing NTSC fixes of PAL games from a decade ago is just sad.
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11129 |
the only sad thing are ex-sceners telling actual sceners that the scene is dead.
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
The c64 scene has definitely evolved to the point where demos are nothing like they used to be. The capabilites of the c64 today, are astounding compared to when I left the scene. The demo scene is alive and well but you're seeing very little being released in way of games.
And even though the demos are amazing (Second Reality was a masterpiece, identical to the PC version) there are simply not enough people left on the c64 to justify the effort. This is my opinion of course.
I find it sad when I visit websites stating that some group has re-released a 100% version of a game that was out 10 years ago.
If you want to release something so a handful of people can view it on an actual 64, by all means do so. But the 64 scene has been dead and buried for years now.
My opinion only.
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
why do you focus so much on games? i mean, you never played them anyway... |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
When "old-and-retired-since-ages"-sceners find a site devoted to c-64 releases, or find out about the still existing (although small) scene of today, they seem to have an urge to go on & on about how dead the scene is or how useless it is for people to continue to make demos or jewel-crack old games.
But at the same time they praise the fact that the c-64 is still alive & remembered...I don't get it.
Either join the few of us or go away!
Don't come here spreading bad vibes...make up your mind instead. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
How did you know I don't play games? :) It's 100% true though.
I wasn't aware I focused on games 'so much'. However the games were the main selling point of the 64. You didn't buy one to make demos, you bought one for the games. They've dried up now and the world has moved on. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Quote: When "old-and-retired-since-ages"-sceners find a site devoted to c-64 releases, or find out about the still existing (although small) scene of today, they seem to have an urge to go on & on about how dead the scene is or how useless it is for people to continue to make demos or jewel-crack old games.
But at the same time they praise the fact that the c-64 is still alive & remembered...I don't get it.
Either join the few of us or go away!
Don't come here spreading bad vibes...make up your mind instead.
It's all about the audience. I could have continued to make demos but without the audience to see them, it was pointless. The scene *is* dead and there is no point in re-cracking games. The groups who originally cracked them had the glory, the programmers made a profit, the intros were packed on, and the import was released.
I could very well recrack games or rerelease them, but why? The fame and glory is over, the games have already been played, and life has moved on.
You are the next generation of programmers on the c64. I see groups popping up that I've never heard of before... but I think it's truly pointless. Most of the audience has left the building.
I like that I'm able to go back and watch them on the emulator but you're dealing with such a small audience, it is to me pointless.
I don't think it's a bad vibe, it's a personal thought :) My word is not the gospel, it's just one voice saying, "I think it's not worth the effort."
I'll continue to enjoy watching new demos but I feel the audience is too small to justify the time it takes to code a demo. |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
Quote: It's all about the audience. I could have continued to make demos but without the audience to see them, it was pointless. The scene *is* dead and there is no point in re-cracking games. The groups who originally cracked them had the glory, the programmers made a profit, the intros were packed on, and the import was released.
I could very well recrack games or rerelease them, but why? The fame and glory is over, the games have already been played, and life has moved on.
You are the next generation of programmers on the c64. I see groups popping up that I've never heard of before... but I think it's truly pointless. Most of the audience has left the building.
I like that I'm able to go back and watch them on the emulator but you're dealing with such a small audience, it is to me pointless.
I don't think it's a bad vibe, it's a personal thought :) My word is not the gospel, it's just one voice saying, "I think it's not worth the effort."
I'll continue to enjoy watching new demos but I feel the audience is too small to justify the time it takes to code a demo.
The scene is *not* dead, had it been dead nothing would've been released. What you're talking about is the cracking & import-scene which has basically been dead since the early 90's when the last major game houses "left the building".
But to me & many others the c-64 was not all about cracking games, it was a way to express yourself by creating art.
I praise everyone who's still creating wonderful pieces of art on the c-64, may it be demos, music, gfx or even games.
What I don't praise though is people slagging down on others creativity just because they prefer to release their stuff to a "dead scene with no audience". |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
You are sadly mistaken if you think I've been slagging anyone's creativity. Read my responses and you'll find the opposite is true.
I'll retract the statement that the "64 scene is dead" because demos are still being released. This doesn't change my opinion that I think there are too few people out there to justify the effort of creating a demo though.
If you want to do it, do it. Break the barriers of the 64. In my opinion though, not enough people will see it and it's pointless to me. There will always be those who want to do it for creativity purposes but I wrote demos for people to watch, be inspired by, admire, and just see my work.
You can agree or disagree with me on this, but my opinion stands. Not worth the effort in my opinion.
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Death Demon
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 68 |
>But to me & many others the c-64 was not all about cracking games, it was a way to express yourself by creating art.
Actually, you shouldn't be surprised to know that it was the same for most of the top programmers back in the hay-day of C64 releases as well. Changeling and I had worked on many different routines and effects. Most were just screwing around to see what manipulating this register might do, or how applying some buffer for rendering might be utilized for overlays, or God only knows what else. But if the routines didn't add to the aesthetic presentation, the routine just sat as source code on a disc somewhere. Having seen The Last Dragon's work and talking to him, I think it was probable the same for him.
The programming was a means to an end. The end was the art. If you could realize a vision of something that looked nice and worked the way you planned (and was small enough to be tacked onto a release), that was the height of programming achievement.
In the end, I (as well as others) outgrew the programming capabilities of the C64 and was forced to move on to continue my studies with more powerful hardware. I had done a vertex transform engine and rasterizer for the C64 but couldn't really do anything useful with it due to performance issues with the machine (and possibly the efficiency of my engine). But it served me well in terms of research for what I eventually wound up doing. But that was the point. To create art. It's really cool to see people out there who actually appreciated what we did too.
And I think it's cool to see people still using the platform as a canvas to express themselves. It's not so much the audience being able to appreciate what you've done (although that is a big plus, IMHO), but more about the satisfaction you get at tackling such a feat. And doing it with hardware as simplistic and underpowered as the C64 adds to the accomplishment. |
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yago
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 332 |
The next big (although not c64-only) party will start easter, ca. 1000 sceners will show up.
Please dont say the scene is dead, its the NTSC-Scene which is dead and buried (from what i heard)
PS: A Country which reelects Bush deserves a dead C64 Scene.
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
I'm proudly Canadian and if I had been able to vote, it would not have been Bush :)
I respect those who still make demos from North America but I agree the NTSC scene is six feet under. |
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2896 |
The NTSC side of the demo scene has always been quite smaller than our counterparts on PAL - even at the peak in 1990/1991/1992.
The NTSC demo scene isn't dead, in fact, five groups are working on productions right now. Any other sort of comment is silliness from uninformed people.
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OEP
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 60 |
I agree - most of the time the best part of a release was the groups intro. They did some amazing things in a very small amount of code. I wish I had the talent to do it.
In fact, I'm now on a mission to collect as many demos as I can for my c64 emulator.
OEP
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yago
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 332 |
My Group was initially founded to compete in the driven-ntsc-4k-compo, and I loved it!
Maybe the driven team can organize another such event, to prove that ntsc is not dead..
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: I agree - most of the time the best part of a release was the groups intro. They did some amazing things in a very small amount of code. I wish I had the talent to do it.
In fact, I'm now on a mission to collect as many demos as I can for my c64 emulator.
OEP
I wish I had the talent to do it as well. And so do my team-members. |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
Quote: I wish I had the talent to do it as well. And so do my team-members.
I hope you didn't mean the talent to collect demos for a C64 emulator! =) |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: I hope you didn't mean the talent to collect demos for a C64 emulator! =)
I have the talent to start doing that, invest a lot of time & energy in it, and then drop it again. D'you think I could make money with it? |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
Quote: I have the talent to start doing that, invest a lot of time & energy in it, and then drop it again. D'you think I could make money with it?
Well, the first graphician of "Lemmings" (C64 version) earned money this way =) |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Well, the first graphician of "Lemmings" (C64 version) earned money this way =)
Nikaj earned money collecting demos? :O
I hate him, so much right now! |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
Quote: Nikaj earned money collecting demos? :O
I hate him, so much right now!
No, I only meant this part:
" invest a lot of time & energy in it, and then drop it again" in general. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: No, I only meant this part:
" invest a lot of time & energy in it, and then drop it again" in general.
Dude .. I knew what you meant .. please don't let me ruin an already bad joke by having it to explain to you .. |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
Quote: Dude .. I knew what you meant .. please don't let me ruin an already bad joke by having it to explain to you ..
ok O:-) |
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The Bandit
Account closed
Registered: May 2005
Posts: 18 |
Quote: I've been poking around the nostalgia sites recently popping my email address up hoping to get in touch with old friends from the scene. Instead, old jealousy has found a way of poking it's ugly head out. I can't believe that jealousy like this still exists after, what, 20 years now?
Quote:
From: lkjlkjljk pablo [lkjlkjljkpablo_797@hotmail.com]
raster boy lives again.... total lack of imagination raster boiiiiiiiiii
Only one person who ever refered to me as that. In fact, he has a web page up right now that refers to me as that. Man, can't believe some people can't let go. Hmm, actually it looks like he's updated it in the last few days. Luckily, Google still has it around. If you're interested, do a google search for +"wanderer" +"the survivors" +"raster boy"
Wanderer Commodore 64 c64 NTSC intro demo fbr pe the survivors ...
... I ripped anything after my beginning months in The Survivors. ... a member of FBR who
I call raster boy (DxxxxDxxxx ... did you change your name from Satan to Wanderer? ...
www.ontarioghosttowns.com/c64/c64.html - 84k - Cached - Similar pages
In any event, as I stated, please be careful. It appears that some people out there are still bent out of shape over scene related issues.
Death Demon, Not to worry... I'm sure a lot of people will come back at me, and it's only a matter of time. Quick question, Where is Death Angel...of FBR.. I have not spoken with him in a LONG time..
Look up: The Bandit
in the csdb for my email |
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szu
Account closed
Registered: Aug 2010
Posts: 17 |
wow..intresting thread... you guys were cool back then..i remember enjoying your intros DeathDemon an Shark/Wonderer |
